Turkey Strikes Kurd Rebels In Iraq For Third Night.

Turkey Strikes Kurd Rebels In Iraq For Third Night.

www.rferl.org

August 20, 2011 - Turkish warplanes backed by heavy artillery struck Kurdish guerrilla targets in northern Iraq overnight, the military said, a third consecutive night of raids.

The Turkish air strikes are the first against rebels in the mountains of northern Iraq in more than a year and mark a stark escalation of the 27-year-old conflict after the collapse of efforts to find a negotiated settlement. The raids also follow an increase in attacks by Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) rebels in sou..

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Hmm i thought that the it was a violations of Iraq's soveigneigty. This reminds me. Didn't George H.W. Bush Sr in 1991 promise to support the Iraqi rebels to overthrow Saddam but instead left them in the swing othe desert as Saddam butched them?

so heck Did Turkey has right to go on and crack down on the Kurds. The middile east region is crazy.

www.rferl.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Paulioetc15


Its not just Turkey that's attacking the Kurds in Northern Iraq. Iran is doing it to.

The below article is from about a few weeks ago.

Hundreds displaced by Iran-Iraq Kurd clashes: ICRC

Fighting between Iranian military forces and Kurdish separatists has displaced hundreds of villagers in the border regions of northern Iraq, the Red Cross said on Monday.

Iran launched a major offensive Saturday against rebel Kurdish bases in Iraq in which eight of its own elite Revolutionary Guards were killed. The separatist Party of Free Life of Kurdistan, or PJAK, said it had lost two fighters.

Iraq is a complete mess. Ive lost track of how many different countries are attacking them now.

Are we so blind to the fact that Turkey has a history of Imperialism cultural domination of minorities?
Pity the Kurds they are the Gypsies of the Middle east, no one gives a damm.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Are we so blind to the fact that Turkey has a history of Imperialism cultural domination of minorities?
Pity the Kurds they are the Gypsies of the Middle east, no one gives a damm.

I just had that conversation with some other members in another thread.

I find it intresting that people who support the Palestinians completely ignore, in addition to holding a double standard, towards the Kurds.

Iraq, Turkey and Syria all claim land that was once ethinc kurd.

As for Turkey striking into Iraq, that has always happened and always will. When hussein was in charge he hated the kurds, so didnt really care if turky violated their territory to attack them. Iran has crossed the border on several occasions as well.

Just another day in that part of the wiorld.

reply to post by buni11687


I agree, Iran is also backing the other side like funding Islamic group to carry out terrorist attacks against the Iraqi population as well as Coalition troops. But most of them are seem to have ties to Al-Qaeda.

I wonder if we backed the Kurds and the Shiites in 1991 to oust Saddam Hussein what would happen?

reply to post by buni11687


oh btw, i want to know about the history between the Kurds and Turkey. Even though they were supposed to help the Kurds as part of UN-authorized Operation Provide Comfort in 1991, the turks hated them so much that they refuse to allows the Kurds to let them live in their country.

Originally posted by Paulioetc15
reply to post by buni11687

 

I agree, Iran is also backing the other side like funding Islamic group to carry out terrorist attacks against the Iraqi population as well as Coalition troops. But most of them are seem to have ties to Al-Qaeda.

I wonder if we backed the Kurds and the Shiites in 1991 to oust Saddam Hussein what would happen?

We did, and the rebels were succesfull in taking like 15 of 16 provinces. Then, for some stupid reason we dropped support, hanging the rebels out to dry, and Husseisn forces made quick work of them in the open.

reply to post by Xcathdra


The US changes allies like I change my underwear...Daily..

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Paulioetc15
reply to post by buni11687

 

I agree, Iran is also backing the other side like funding Islamic group to carry out terrorist attacks against the Iraqi population as well as Coalition troops. But most of them are seem to have ties to Al-Qaeda.

I wonder if we backed the Kurds and the Shiites in 1991 to oust Saddam Hussein what would happen?

We did, and the rebels were succesfull in taking like 15 of 16 provinces. Then, for some stupid reason we dropped support, hanging the rebels out to dry, and Husseisn forces made quick work of them in the open.

That's the problem there. Bush was under pressure from everybody not to support the rebels. The Saudis and Gulf States feared it would lead to a Shiite controlled Iraq. The Turks, Iranians, and Russians all feared it would create a breakaway free state of Kurdistan. Everyone was afraid it would lead to a prolonged Civil War that they might all be dragged into. It was assumed by the US State Department Saddam was going to be overthrown by one of his generals who would take over and be the new “strongman” but one we could deal with. Some felt that no one even the United States should intervene because it's none of their business and felt that they, the rebels, could destalibized Iraq.

The only way to support the Kurds and the Shia Muslims was the enforcement over the no-fly-zones over Northern Iraq and Southern Iraq because the Iraqi aircraft was attacking them and it would fear another chemical genocide like what Saddam's air force did to the Kurds in 1988.

Also all throughout the 1990s during a Gulf War ceasefire, the CIA made several attempts to overthrow and assassinate Saddam Hussein while working with Iraqi Army officers who defected to the anti-Saddam forces but it failed and the cover up that it was CIA work was blown.

I think we should have went into Baghdad in 1991 instead of just pushing them out of Kuwait and stop there. It would prevent a lot of misery down the road.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

The US changes allies like I change my underwear...Daily..

Thats because of Middle East Politics, which change their positions more than a highschool girl changes their mind, which is several times a minute and dependant on whats popular at the second.

At least we are on the same page though

reply to post by Xcathdra


The fact that the US relinquished support for the Kurds is the worst bit. Bush encouraged the Kurds to rise up and they did, then they withdrew support and left them at the mercy of Saddam's helicopter gun ships. You can't be half-willing in these instances. Either support them from the offset and continue to do so unless your efforts porve to be useless or don't support them at all and spare a few thousand lives.

There are a lot of Kurds living in all of these countries: Iran, Turkey, Iraq and the neighboring ones.

Everybody who lives in these countries know, there are only two kinds of Kurds: the angelic, down to earth wonderful people, and the troublemaking, naughty, good for nothing lazy gits.

There is no in between. And this is a very well known generalization about these people.

The Kurds in Iraq half heartedly support the ones in Turkey. They let them roam the Turkish mountains and hit army bases and such, and then come and hide in Northern Iraq. So they have it coming.

Originally posted by nusnus
There are a lot of Kurds living in all of these countries: Iran, Turkey, Iraq and the neighboring ones.

Everybody who lives in these countries know, there are only two kinds of Kurds: the angelic, down to earth wonderful people, and the troublemaking, naughty, good for nothing lazy gits.

There is no in between. And this is a very well known generalization about these people.

The Kurds in Iraq half heartedly support the ones in Turkey. They let them roam the Turkish mountains and hit army bases and such, and then come and hide in Northern Iraq. So they have it coming.

Wow.. if you drop kurds, you have gaza and hamas...

Any reason there is a double standard in that one area?

reply to post by Xcathdra


I wonder what Gaza and Hamas has to do with this thread topic??

Or is it just you that feels the need to bring up some silly comparison ?

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

I wonder what Gaza and Hamas has to do with this thread topic??

Or is it just you that feels the need to bring up some silly comparison ?

It actually has a lot to do with it in terms of a double standard. The kurds are having the same issues the Palestinians are having when it comes to securing their own homeland. For comparative purposes relating to Arab foreign policy, they are hypocrites, and using their own standards are exactly like Israel when it comes to oppressing a portion of their population citing national security issues / concerns.

Turkey has been going after the kurds, along with Iraq and Iran, for a long time now, and Turkey crossing the border is not new. I am curious to see how long that might last with the new government in place. Makes one wonder if they can find common ground and build bridges from it.

How they deal with / view the Kurd issue could possibly create possibilities for Israel and the Palestinians.

What do you think? Are the kurds terrorists for fighting for their own homeland? Do they have a legitimate claim to the land? Do you consider turkeys actions are in line with UN articles, or a violation of them? Do you think the kurds are resistance fighters?

Any idea on how to resolve the issue there?

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


If you read my previous post, here is the reason why H.W. Bush didn't support the rebel because he was pressure by everyone that United States should stick their own nose out of it.

This is nothing new, and as some have pointed out Iranians are disrupting Iraqi sovereignty by engaging Kurd insurgents into Iraqi territory as well. The Iraqi Parliament is still a fledgling government dealing multiple problems at the moment, and especially the rumblings coming out of the Sadr camp about the prospect of a continued US military presence. With that, I find this to be a troubling matter. Why no one has spoken out about this is a mystery? There is a lot of discussion about the plight of the Palestinians, but nothing about the Kurds who like the Palestinian are in pursuit of a homeland and equal rights in their host countries.

Not everyone in the those Iraqi border villages are Kurdish terrorists, and what gives the right to Iran or Turkey to destroy their property, displace their families, or partake in indiscriminate destruction? Pursuing alleged terrorists into another country, and destroying everything in sight is not justification. A country has to have proof that the terrorists are there, and must request permission to engage in military operations.

Last I checked, Iraq is a sovereign nation, and as such, any foreign power wishing to conduct military operations within Iraq must get permission by the government. These raids and strikes are done unilaterally without consent by the government. They are breaking international law, and have not been taken to task about it by the UN, EU, or the US for that matter. This has been going on for years, and not a peep out of anyone? In these airstrikes, artillery barrages, and land invasions civilians are being killed.

7 Civilians Reported Dead in Turkish Airstrikes on PKK Hideouts

Kurdish officials say Turkish airstrikes aimed at Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq killed seven civilians on Sunday, in a fifth straight day of cross-border strikes on suspected separatist hideouts.

I suppose according to Turkey and Iran, those who live along their borders in Iraq are aiding and abetting terrorists? It seems that may be the marching orders of the Iranian and Turkish armed forces? With that, it gives them the right to invade airspace and territory at their beckoned call, and without the consent of the government? I understand Turkey and Iran have lost many people as result of the PKK(Turkey) and the PJAK(Iran) military and separatist campaign in both countries, but that does not give them the right pursue these individuals in other countries without expressed authorization by their governments. Property is being destroyed, families are being displaced, and civilians are being killed.

If this continues, what is to stop Iraqi Kurdistan from separating from Iraq altogether as result of inaction by the Federal Government in Baghdad? What is to stop a rebellion among the people against the Kurdish regional government, because of silence on their part? This could shape up to be a very difficult matter if those with the power remain mute about these clear provocations against Iraqi/Kurd civilians and sovereignty. The public is bound to grow weary and restless.

reply to post by Jakes51


Because Iraq is a very unstable nation right now, it has suffered from terrorist attacks and all. The current Iraqi government is not doing anything for any nation to violated it's sovereignty.

reply to post by Paulioetc15


I realize that Iraq remains unstable and that is why I mentioned the situation involving the threats of violence by the Sadrists. However, the government can still publicly condemn such conduct, and urge members of the international community to speak out against it. Furthermore, the regional government in Iraqi Kurdistan is stable and could voice opposition to this conduct by the Turkey and Iran as well.

These unilateral attacks are promulgating future instability if nothing is done to address the matter. Families are being displaced, property destroyed, and civilians are being killed. This behavior is breeding more insurgents. I realize the fledgling government in Iraq has a lot on its table, but they can at least publicly condemn these illegal military operations by their more powerful neighbors along Iraq's northern border. The US is still there as well, and can offer some kind of assistance if the Iraqi military is unable to handle these cross border incursions. It is a mystery to me why so many are mute on this subject?