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reply to post by TerryMcGuire
I too thought metaphysical meant there was an underlying spirtitual component.
Not so much a 'big bang' more like a beautiful melody.
Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by blazenresearcher
reply to post by TerryMcGuire
I too thought metaphysical meant there was an underlying spirtitual component.
As do others posting on this thread it seems. From what I found,NorEaster is using the definition as found in the reply I made. As he has not replied to my reply, I do not know if he is aware of the confusion this causes to those of us who have understood the word by its more general usage.
Originally posted by mattime
Personally, I dont see myself as either; I prefer not to belong to a label. I believe what I believe, do what I do and thats pretty much it. Its the same principle as my eating habits. People call me a vegetarian, but I dont see myself as that. I just simply dont eat meat. Its the same thing, but the mindset is different.
This is why I see myself as neither categories. A label is too constricting, for me anyway. I like being philosophical, and its also quite fun. I love being metaphysical too, but to belong to both categories? It isnt how I think.
All the philosophies, creeds, dogmas and beliefs that humanity has evolved are variants of three great paradigms, the Transcendental, the Materialist and the Magical. In no human culture has any one of these paradigms been completely distinct from the others. For example in our own culture at the time of writing the Transcendental and Magical paradigms are frequently confused together.
Transcendental philosophies are basically religious and manifest in a spectrum stretching from the fringes of primitive spiritism through pagan polytheism to the monotheism of the Judaeo-Christian- Islamic traditions and the theoretical non-theistic systems of Buddhism and Taoism. In each case it is believed that some form of consciousness or spirit created and maintains the universe and that humans, other living organisms, contain some fragment of this consciousness or spirit which underlies the veil or illusion of matter. The essence of Transcendentalism is belief in spiritual beings greater than oneself or states of spiritual being superior to that which currently one enjoys. Earthly life is frequently seen merely as a form of dialogue between oneself and one's deity or deities, or perhaps some impersonal form of higher force. The material world is a theatre for the spirit or soul or consciousness that created it. Spirit is the ultimate reality to the transcendentalist.
In the Materialist paradigm the universe is believed to consist fundamentally and entirely of matter. Energy is but a form of matter and together they subtend space and time within which all change occurs strictly on the basis of cause and effect. Human behaviour is reducible to biology, biology is reducible to chemistry, chemistry is reducible to physics and physics is reducible to mathematics. Mind and consciousness are thus merely electrochemical events in the brain and spirit is a word without objective content. The causes of some events are likely to remain obscure perhaps indefinitely, but there is an underlying faith that sufficient material cause must exist for any event. All human acts can be categorized as serving some biological need or as expressions of previously applied conditioning or merely as malfunction. The goal of materialist who eschews suicide is the pursuit of personal satisfaction including altruistic satisfactions if desired.
The main difficulty in recognizing and describing the pure Magical Paradigm is that of insufficient vocabulary. Magical philosophy is only recently recovering from a heavy adulteration with transcendental theory. The word aether will be used to describe the fundamental reality of the magical paradigm. It is more or less equivalent to the idea of Mana used in oceanic shamanism. Aether in materialistic descriptions is information which structures matter and which all matter is capable of emitting and receiving. In transcendental terms aether is a sort of 'life force' present in some degree in all things. It carries both knowledge about events and the ability to influence similar or sympathetic events. Events either arise spontaneously out of themselves or are encouraged to follow certain paths by influence of patterns in the aether. As all things have an aetheric part they can be considered to be alive in some sense. Thus all things happen by magic, the large scale features of the universe have a very strong aetheric pattern which makes them fairly predictable but difficult to influence by the aetheric patterns created by thought. Magicians see themselves as participating in nature. Transcendentalists like to think they are somehow above it. Materialists like to try and manipulate it.
Magical paradigm shifting
Perhaps the most striking feature of chaos magic is the concept of the magical paradigm shift. Borrowing a term from philosopher Thomas Samuel Kuhn, Carroll made the technique of arbitrarily changing one's world view (or paradigm) of magic, a major concept of chaos magic.[4] An example of a magical paradigm shift is doing a Lovecraftian rite, followed by using a technique from an Edred Thorsson book in the following ritual. These two magical paradigms are very different, but while the individual is using one, he or she believes in it fully to the extent of ignoring all other (often contradictory) ones.
The shifting of magical paradigms has since found its way into the magical work of practitioners of many other magical traditions, but chaos magic remains the field where it is most developed. Changing belief systems at will is also sometimes practiced by followers of Discordianism.
Some chaos magicians like to operate in what is sometimes called a meta-paradigm. This is much akin to syncretism but with the consideration that flexibility of belief is a means of personal power and freedom. A more or less syncretic reality tunneling. Even more removed from this, being a post-meta-paradigmatic view, or an abstention from the notion of any view being absolute, compare Nietzsche's Perspectivism.
[edit] Belief as a tool
Chaos magic claims that belief can be an active magical force. It emphasizes flexibility of belief and the ability to consciously choose one's beliefs, hoping to apply belief as a tool rather than seeing it as a relatively unchanging part of one's personality.[8] Various psychological techniques are employed in order to induce flexibility of belief.[9] Other chaos magicians suggest that people do not need "belief" to work magic.[10] Austin Osman Spare asserts in the Book of Pleasure and various other works that Will formulates Desire which promulgates Belief.
quoted from: Chaos_magic
*Metamorphosis
The transmutation of the mind to magical consciousness has often been called the Great Work. It has a far-reaching purpose leading eventually to the discovery of the True Will. Even a slight ability to change oneself is more valuable than any power over the external universe. Metamorphosis is an exercise in willed restructuring of the mind.
All attempts to reorganize the mind involve a duality between conditions as they are and the preferred condition. Thus it is impossible to cultivate any virtue like spontaneity, joy, pious,pride, grace, or omnipotence without involving oneself in more conventionality, sorrow, guilt, sin, and impotence in the process. Religions are founded on the fallacy that one can or ought to have one without the other. High magic recognizes the dualistic condition but does not care whether life is bittersweet or sweet and sour; rather it seeks to achieve any arbitrary perceptual perspective at will.
Any state of mind might arbitrarily be chosen as an objective for transmutation, but there is a specific virtue to the ones given.The first is an antidote to the imbalance and possible madness of the magical trance. The second is a specific against obsession with the magical practices in the third section. They are:
1) Laughter/Laughter2) Non-attachment/Non-disinterest. Attaining these states of mind is accomplished by a process of ongoing meditation. One tries to enter into the spirit of the condition whenever possible and to think about the desired result at other times. By this method, a strong new mental habit can be established.
Originally posted by NorEaster
So, are you a philosopher or a metaphisicist?
Me, I'm a metaphysicist.
Originally posted by evolv
There are five main branches of philosophy which include logic (rules for correct thinking/reasoning), aesthetics (what is beauty), epistemology (human knowledge), Ethics (what it means to lead a good life), and Metaphysics which deals with reality (what is). These branches may vary depending on who you ask. Whether or not you choose to study any of these branches, you are still considered a philosopher.
If anyone is interested, there are schools of metaphysics in most major cities. Look one up and visit one of these schools, it could be enlightening.
Originally posted by TerryMcGuire
reply to post by NorEaster
Well now you have upset my entire gravy train. Your discourse sent me scurrying to other references from one of which I dragged this.
The word "metaphysics" was first used as the title for several of Aristotle's works, because they were usually anthologized after the works on physics in complete editions. The prefix meta- ("beyond") indicates that these works come "after" the chapters on physics. However, Aristotle himself did not call the subject of these books "Metaphysics": he referred to it as "first philosophy."
The editor of Aristotle's works, Andronicus of Rhodes, is thought to have placed the books on first philosophy right after another work, Physics, and called them "the books that come after the [books on] physics". This was misread by Latin scholiasts, who thought it meant "the science of what is beyond the physical".
However, once the name was given, the commentators sought to find intrinsic reasons for its appropriateness. For instance, it was understood to mean "the science of the world beyond nature (phusis in Greek)," that is, the science of the immaterial. Again, it was understood to refer to the chronological or pedagogical order among our philosophical studies, so that the "metaphysical sciences would mean, those that we study after having mastered the sciences that deal with the physical world" (St. Thomas Aquinas, "In Lib, Boeth. de Trin.", V, 1).
There is a widespread use of the term in current popular literature, which replicates this error, i.e. that metaphysical means spiritual non-physical.
Now I find it difficult to grasp your fuller meanings until I can disassociate from my mistaken understanding of this word and the gaggle of synaptic miss-associations that have grown up around it. Why does it seem I a constantly back to the drawing board?
Originally posted by smithjustinb
Well, personally, I don't classify myself as either as these. I understand the importance of operating within the realm of proven facts, but I also see the importance of being speculative, operating on a ground of 'what ifs'. Isn't speculation necessary for discovering facts? Only so much can be discovered by interrelating concepts that have already been discovered. Sometimes you gotta make up an idea and see where it leads. That's my philosophy.
Objectivity works with subjectivity in the same way that male works with female. Without objectivity and subjectivity co-existing, there would never be the birth of new knowledge.
Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by NorEaster
I am a combination of both......and I think a lot of people are. For me it depends upon what the subject matter is.
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by NorEaster
I am a combination of both......and I think a lot of people are. For me it depends upon what the subject matter is.
The subject matter is reality. Fairly broad, but then that's the point. Not everyone is interested in the nature of reality. Those people are neither philosophers or metaphysicists. This question - I guess - was posed to those who are focused on the nature of reality. There are lots of people who have a passing interest in mysterious stuff. Those folks are tourists, and while they're nice and all, they aren't really who I'm addressing here.edit on 8/21/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by caladonea
Originally posted by NorEaster
Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by NorEaster
I am a combination of both......and I think a lot of people are. For me it depends upon what the subject matter is.
The subject matter is reality. Fairly broad, but then that's the point. Not everyone is interested in the nature of reality. Those people are neither philosophers or metaphysicists. This question - I guess - was posed to those who are focused on the nature of reality. There are lots of people who have a passing interest in mysterious stuff. Those folks are tourists, and while they're nice and all, they aren't really who I'm addressing here.edit on 8/21/2011 by NorEaster because: (no reason given)
Ah...the nature of reality.......my reality may not be your reality....what is true for me may not be true for you..but yet all of it is real and true.
Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by NorEaster
Loved....I mean....LOVED your thoughts this morning.
It seems as if I am a Meta-Philosopher. I am both..... I think I use both for reasoning.
Hope everyone has a grrrrreat day today and even better night.
Peace and love to you all!!!! xoxoxox
Jenn