reply to post by Wyn Hawks
:LOL: Shamans are in Siberia [or Tunguska if you want to be specific]:
The term "shaman" is a loan from the Turkic word šamán, the term for such a practitioner, which also gained currency in the wider Turko-Mongol and
Tungusic cultures in ancient Siberia. Shamans were known as "priests" in the region of where Ural–Altaic languages spoken.
the female term is Shamanka
and yes it's wrong to refer to a medicine person as a Shaman/Shamanka
not only every tribe/culture has it's own name for it's shamanistic, or derived from shamanic, practices , but there are no true shamans in existence
at present as the material following shows.
you have to laugh at wiki sometimes has this following section and yet in it's 1st paragraphs it indulges in this error :
Criticism of the term “shaman” or “shamanism”
Certain anthropologists, most notably Alice Kehoe in her book Shamans and Religion: An Anthropological Exploration in Critical Thinking, are highly
critical of the term. Part of this criticism involves the notion of cultural appropriation. This includes criticism of New Age and
modern Western forms of Shamanism, which may not only misrepresent or 'dilute' genuine indigenous practices but do so in a way that, according to
Kehoe, reinforces racist ideas such as the Noble Savage.
Kehoe is highly critical of Mircea Eliade's work. Eliade, being a philosopher and historian of religions rather than an anthropologist, had never done
any field work or made any direct contact with 'shamans' or cultures practicing 'shamanism', though he did spend four years studying at the University
of Calcutta in India where he received his doctorate based on his Yoga thesis and was acquainted with Mahatma Gandhi. According to Kehoe, Eliade's
'shamanism' is an invention synthesized from various sources unsupported by more direct research. To Kehoe, what some scholars of shamanism treat as
being definitive of shamanism, most notably drumming, trance, chanting, entheogens and hallucinogenics, spirit communication and healing, are
* exist outside of what is defined as shamanism and play similar roles even in non-shamanic cultures (such as the role of chanting in
* in their expression are unique to each culture that uses them and cannot be generalized easily, accurately or usefully into a global
‘religion’ such as shamanism.
Because of this, Kehoe is also highly critical of the notion that shamanism is an ancient, unchanged, and surviving religion from the Paleolithic
Mihály Hoppál also discusses whether the term “shamanism” is appropriate. He recommends using the term “shamanhood” or
“shamanship” for stressing the diversity and the specific features of the discussed cultures. This is a term used in old Russian and German
ethnographic reports at the beginning of the 20th century. He believes that this term is less general and places more stress on the local
variations, and it emphasizes also that shamanism is not a religion of sacred dogmas, but linked to the everyday life in a practical way.
Following similar thoughts, he also conjectures a contemporary paradigm shift. Also Piers Vitebsky mentions, that despite really astonishing
similarities, there is no unity in shamanism. The various, fragmented shamanistic practices and beliefs coexist with other beliefs everywhere. There
is no record of pure shamanistic societies (although, as for the past, their existence is not impossible).
the reason there is no record of pure shamanistic societies is because any such societies went the way of lemuria and atlantis; i.e. they are not part
of the historical record at all.
speaking for myself, i suscribe to the Chaoist definition:
From The Psychonaut
SHAMANISM IS OUR oldest magical and mystical tradition. It is from shamanism that all religious arts and magical
sciences originate. The shamanic traditions are still practiced on all the southern continents — Australia, Africa, and
South America. It is primarily found in hunting societies but survives also in semi-settled village life where it takes on more of
the character of witch-doctoring. The encroachments of modern civilization have almost destroyed shamanism in North America,
Oceania, Northern Asia, and within the Arctic Circle. Some shamanic knowledge survived in European witchcraft, while in
the Middle East shamanism became swallowed up in the priestly cults of classical civilizations.
Two conclusions can be drawn from an examination of remaining shamanic cultures and from records of those now extinct.
Firstly, despite the enormous geographical separation between shamanic cultures, they share almost identical methods.
Secondly, it is shamanic knowledge and power that contemporary magicians seek to rediscover. The basic principles of magic, like
the basic principles of science, do not change, but they can become lost. Shamanism presents a very full magical technology
which resumes all occult themes. Mankind now stands in greater need of these abilities than at any time since the first aeon, if he is
to understand rather than destroy himself. Shamanism once guided all human societies and kept them in equilibrium with their
environment for thousands of years. All occultism is an attempt to win back that awesome lost wisdom. Let us look then, at what the
traditions of shamanism hold.
Shamanic power cannot be progressively accumulated like other technology. A shaman will be lucky if his own apprentices
make any advance beyond his own achievements. Shamanic powers are so difficult to master that a tradition requires a continual
influx of talent just to prevent itself from degenerating. For this reason shamans usually describe their tradition as having declined
from past glories. Only an occasional, exceptional practitioner can win back some of the more legendary powers.
Central to shamanism is the perception of an otherworld or series of otherworlds. This type of astral or aetheric dimension
containing various powers entities and forces allows real effects to be created in this world. The shaman's soul journeys through this
dimension while in ecstatic or drug-induced state of trance. The journey may be undertaken for divinatory knowledge, to cure
sickness, to deliver a blow to enemies, or to find game animals. Prospective shamans are usually selected from those with a
nervous disposition. They may either be assigned to shamanic instruction or are driven to it by a power present in the shamanic
culture. Initiation invokes a journey into the otherworld, a meeting with spirits and a death-rebirth experience. In the deathrebirth
experience, the candidate has a vision of his body being dismembered, often by fantastic beings or animal spirits, and then
reassembled from the wreckage. The new body invariably contains an extra part often described as an additional bone or an inclusion
of magical quartz stones or sometimes an animal spirit. This experience graphically symbolizes the location of the aetheric
force field within the body or the addition of various extra powers to it.
In most shamanic systems this aetheric force is exuded through the naval region for short range magics, although it can be
sent through the eyes or hands instead. It is the same as the Chi or Ki or Kundalini or aura.
The shamanic tradition exhibits a full range of magical themes. Exorcism and curing are the main skills shared with the
community, and these are usually undertaken in trance and ecstatic states during which an otherworld journey is made to seek a
cure. Magical attack and protection may be performed for clients, and shamans themselves will frequently fight each other for supremacy, often
assuming their otherworld animal shapes for this purpose.
Some shamanists cultivate enormous physiological control with which to resist extremes of heat, cold, and pain. Firewalking Shamanism in which fierce
heat is magically prevented from scorching flesh is a very common feature of this tradition and occurs worldwide. Congress with the spirit world is
extensive and includes various nature spirits, animal and plant entities and servitors, the
shades of the dead, sexual entities like incubi and succubi and usually a horned god, even in lands with no horned animals.
Egress into the otherworld is made through perilous clashing gates, comparable to the modern conception of the Abyss. Dream as well
as trance is an important method of obtaining access to the otherworld. Shamanic tools are highly varied but usually include a noise
making device, such as a drum or snake bone rattle, to call spirits and induce trance, as well as various power objects, most commonly
quartz crystals. The extraordinary traditions of shamanism are the fountainhead of all occult systems, and it is to shamanism
that we must look if we wish to pick up the pieces of magic, man's oldest science, and use them again.
Copyright © 1987 Peter J. Carroll, the moral authority of the author has been asserted.
being a shaman is more like a state of being than a role or practice.
thus one is always becoming a shaman, but never truly arrives at the goal, it's the journey that counts.
note to moderator: sorry about the large quote but if i edit it, relevant info will be left out and i can't find a link to the whole text to point to.
i have asserted the moral authority of the author to cover all bases.
...its the plague of the ever-morphing english language...
actually the "problem" is much older than that:
‘Now in the Egyptian language, this sole relic of a primitive world, there are a fair number of words with two meanings, one of which is the exact
opposite of the other. Let us suppose, if such an obvious piece of nonsense can be imagined, that in German the word "strong" meant both "strong" and
"weak"; that in Berlin the noun "light" was used to mean both "light" and "darkness"; that one Munich citizen called beer "beer", while another used
the same word to speak of water: this is what the astonishing practice amounts to which the ancient Egyptians regularly followed in their language.
How could anyone be blamed for shaking his head in disbelief? . . .’ (Examples omitted.)
(Ibid., 7): ‘In view of these and many similar cases of antithetical meaning (see the Appendix) it is beyond doubt that in one language at least
there was a large number of words that denoted at once a thing and its opposite. However astonishing it may be, we are faced with the fact and have to
reckon with it.’
The author goes on to reject an explanation of these circumstances which suggests that two words might happen by chance to have the same sound, and
is equally firm in repudiating an attempt to refer it to the low stage of mental development in Egypt:
Sigmund Freud:The Antithetical Meaning of Primal Words
then there are code words and the complete redefining of words example the legal profession, but don't get me started.
it is beyond doubt that in one language at least there was a large number of words that denoted at once a thing and its opposite. However astonishing
it may be, we are faced with the fact and have to reckon with it.’
that language is presently known as Glossolalia: it is the original, true, language of the human race, which was "lost" at Babel, the primal tongue of
fire,ecstasy, angels and dreams.
being the original language of the unconscious mind, everyone who hears a statement in this language interprets/hears a different thing, usually what
you need to hear, it's basically the hard-wired machine code of the human brain/body.
sometimes babies will make completely intelligible statements in their mother tongue before they are supposed to be able to speak at all, it just gets
ignored as imaginary.
yup glossolalia =baby talk with a smaller vocabulary, it just get's swamped and overwritten by mother tongue before baby can get it's word count up,
which is quite easy, as unlike with human languages, the word is
the thing, and doesn't just symbolize it.
a proper shamanic initiation includes learning a "new" magical language, if you understand and parse machine code, you can do more with a computer
than you can do with windows,mac os, or the linux "dialects"
edit on 5-9-2011 by DerepentLEstranger because: added edit & additional