The Skinwalker , A Fascinating Subject

...heard lots of skinwalker stories... when i was young, i heard that traditionals dont tell those stories to outsiders and that they're never told around pre-puberty children or around pregnant women... but everything changes sooner or later, even cherished traditional ways...

...imo - they're just a myth that has many interpretations and lots of other myths surrounding it (some dineh, some not)... no one has ever caught one... no one has ever filmed one but theres been faked films... i'm not saying there isnt an unknown at play - just that i dont believe the stories...

...i do however believe in shape-shifters... ...seems contrary, huh?... its not really...

...a shape-shifter doesnt really change into another form and the term shape-shifter is an inaccurate description put out by shape-shifters to keep their secrets from the masses...

...the accurate term is mind-walker and they're in just about every culture on the planet... they're incredibly strong minded and exceptionally adept in the art of deception... simply put - they make you believe what they want you to believe... if you're prone to believing in fantasy, you're easy to manipulate...

...they kinda sound like a magician, huh?... some are... they also sound a lot like a psychopath, huh?... some are... some are amazingly good people though who can, for example, convince a person in pain that they're somewhere else where there is no pain... sounds kinda like hypnosis, huh?... it sorta kinda is...

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger


I knew this, the point being is that you need to hear of it to go find information on something. How can I google something that I don't know exists ? This is fascinating though. I've got Indian somewhere down my bloodline, don't know which tribe though.

So what else is out there, I guess faeries are real too.....strange lot of things we got in this world

reply to post by RamsOnTop


Well, only Tommy and Sams mom was a shifter...

...but what is the difference berween a shiftter and a skinwalker (as far as True Blood goes)?

Sorry for some off topic here. You can U2U me.

RE: The op...this topic has been very interesting to me for a number of years. I live in Commanche territory, and indian lore runs thick.

SKINWALKER VICTIM VIDEO INTERVIEW:

The following interview is of a young Navajo who was harrassed at her house with her friend , I honestly believe she is being honest . Also i would like to point out that the person who was with the woman at the time of the incident became a victim of the Corpse Powder that we discussed earlier on page one .. Thank you for your time .

Caution, may be disturbing to some people .



Omega

reply to post by obzerver


Setting aside your your horrible grammar and apparent lack of knowledge, I'm guessing that you're horribly mistaken. If I'm reading your comment correctly, you're saying that the notion of skinwalkers is an attempt to portray Native Americans as barbaric? Well... Most cultures, even many still in existence today, have some form of witchcraft/witch doctors, etc. This isn't an attempt to villify Native Americans, just a discussion on an aspect of thier culture that is indeed FACT. There are countless sources that can be used to confirm this interesting portion of thier heritage. So maybe before you go on a rant accusing people of bashing on Native Americans, maybe you should do a little research. Oh, and use some form of spellcheck.

...imo, amelia's story is indicative of several things but none that are supernatural...

...according to her, the scenario is - two little girls left alone all night (no adults) with a 3yr old and the boogieman comes to visit...

...(1) - it couldve been something as simple and normal as their imaginations running amuck... (2) - it couldve been that one or both were sexually assaulted that night and the trauma induced this version of what happened... (3) - it couldve been that their older family members were playing a joke on them and it went too far...

...re: trance-like state... people that have "gone into shock" (due to something frightening) often perceive it as a trance-like state when the shock wears off... cops that investigate auto accidents or violent crimes often hear one story from a witness and, then, the witness tells another story an hour later... some dont even realize they've told the first story - and - unless their first story was recorded, some will never believe they told it... this is very common...

...i suspect that all of my guesses above are more on target than her recollections... why?... two little girls home alone are going to turn off all the lights at night?... its more likely that if a kid is really afraid, they'll turn on every light in the house... if the lights were off, its probably because the little girls were playing the ancient game of "scare yourself silly"...

...and - she tells the 9yr old to go to sleep during all this?... yeah, right - like thats gonna work...

...and - they've got all the lights off and the creepy thing is looking in the windows and they're just standing there watching it?... i dont know about you but, when i was a kid, if i was scared i'd hide in a closet or under the bed or lock myself in the bathroom, lol...

...she made a pact with the 9yr old to not talk about that night until they were adults - and - to not tell their family members because they wouldnt believe them... that suggests a history of sexual abuse that was ignored by the adults - or - that amelia had instigated sexual exploration (which is normal at that age) but was afraid she would get in trouble if the younger girl tattled - or - that amelia had gotten in trouble before for making up wild tales...

...also - the next morning, after the adults came home, grandma had an odd grin on her face and that suggests my #3 guess above might be correct... it could also suggest that amelia was trying to validate a story she wants to believe or wants others to believe but knows that its not true...

...jmo...

hmmm very interesting videos and such here, but it sounds to me like the skinwalkers are merely an native american version of an occult, i believe this due to some of the statments made by chief dan about having to sacrafice someone close to you, and about the secret meeting places as such. as for amelia i get the fealing that she is being led by the interviewer even tho he states in the process "I'm not trying to lead you" but the questions he asks tell me differently, however this could be to the fact that Amelia seems to have some trouble recounting the details of her situation. Above all I find this topic very interesting. I am native american and had no knowledge of skinwalkers before reading this post however my eyes have been open alot now thanks alot OP and all who added info to the topic.

reply to post by Omega85

Why do you people insist on talking about these things?
Some things should just be left alone, seriously.

reply to post by Thunderheart




Because as scholars we can and if you dont like it then thats too bad , feel free to pollute other threads with your off topic whining because any further off topic and non constructively useless comments by you in this thread will be deleted . Thanks .

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Back on topic , i apologize for the blatant waste of bandwidth and non common sense from the above member and i will moderate the thread with more vigilance from now on



I just want to clear something up here .
The people called Skinwalkers do exist and are actually real so i think it would be better for those who are skeptical to just make sure that when you are saying things like "i dont believe its real" or the like to specify that you are skeptical of there abilities and not the people themselves . Just to clear up some confusion for anyone going through the thread the first time or anything like that .

I am really thankful to all the members who are constructively contributing to this thread and wish to offer my sincerest thanks to them , the people like you who do this all around AboveTopSecret.com are the reason i keep coming back , and its a pleasure learning and listening to what you have to say .


Sincerely

Omega85

reply to post by Wyn Hawks



Great posts

I agree with you that what you say could have happened .
I find it a great story regarding the thread subject on anycount .

Omega

reply to post by DerepentLEstranger



Off the top of my head i dont think that they are related but its a great question, one that i would like to find the answer to , If you find anything out about it i would love to know . If i come across anything about it i will put it in this thread .

Again, fantastic question my friend .

Omega

Originally posted by Skinwalker1979
reply to post by obzerver

 

Setting aside your your horrible grammar and apparent lack of knowledge, I'm guessing that you're horribly mistaken. If I'm reading your comment correctly, you're saying that the notion of skinwalkers is an attempt to portray Native Americans as barbaric? Well... Most cultures, even many still in existence today, have some form of witchcraft/witch doctors, etc. This isn't an attempt to villify Native Americans, just a discussion on an aspect of thier culture that is indeed FACT. There are countless sources that can be used to confirm this interesting portion of thier heritage. So maybe before you go on a rant accusing people of bashing on Native Americans, maybe you should do a little research. Oh, and use some form of spellcheck.

The term 'practise what you preach' springs to mind. Their not Thier, also vilify has one 'l'. If you insist upon berating others for their spelling, and suggest they use a form of spell(space)check perhaps you should actually check your own first.

On topic

I have never heard of this before so something for me to read up on, I believe they are merely camp fire stories. Nevertheless they are good stories to read before bed to try and stir up the good dreams

What I'd like to know is if the skinwalker actually merges with the skin, and goes forth as himself, with no shifting of consciousness but with a physical shift in his body, or if the skinwalker mentally merges with a target-species type animal and then goes forth using that animal's body with it's consciousness subjected.

My guess is on the later.

My guess is that the requirements of killing someone close to you are to assure people that this sort of powerful person is rare, and evil, and to discourage people from trying to tamper with magic this powerful.

What would it do to a psyche to murder someone you loved and cherished? It would have to mean that you would want magickal power more than ANYTHING. I suspect that is where the truth is. The talk of going to abandoned places to practice this sort of magic leads me to believe the same- that to practice this magic would be all consuming- my guess is that the person you'd really have to sacrifice is yourself, and thus the magic is both trans formative and sacrifice transforms the magic, making it very, very powerful indeed, but also, it seems like it would make the practitioner prone to prefer extreme isolation.

Originally posted by hadriana
What I'd like to know is if the skinwalker actually merges with the skin, and goes forth as himself, with no shifting of consciousness but with a physical shift in his body, or if the skinwalker mentally merges with a target-species type animal and then goes forth using that animal's body with it's consciousness subjected.

My guess is on the later.

My guess is that the requirements of killing someone close to you are to assure people that this sort of powerful person is rare, and evil, and to discourage people from trying to tamper with magic this powerful.

What would it do to a psyche to murder someone you loved and cherished? It would have to mean that you would want magickal power more than ANYTHING. I suspect that is where the truth is. The talk of going to abandoned places to practice this sort of magic leads me to believe the same- that to practice this magic would be all consuming- my guess is that the person you'd really have to sacrifice is yourself, and thus the magic is both trans formative and sacrifice transforms the magic, making it very, very powerful indeed, but also, it seems like it would make the practitioner prone to prefer extreme isolation.

What would it do to a psyche to murder someone you love ? For me, not too much much. When you're poor you have nothing to loose, when dealing with the arts of magic/magick ? Lets just say for me, I wouldn't miss that party too much when they're gone.

Now I'm poor, a murderer and I have newfound magic powers. It's a perk, not too bad.

No, the trick is not SOMEONE - but "SOMEONE YOU LOVE"
and love is not usually associated with murder. Other emotions are, like jealousy or whatnot. Love is often incompatable with greed.

I think that this requirement is probably merely symbolic - if one were willing to do that, one probably would not have to do it.

And no, I don't think being poor itself would be an inpetus to serious study of magick,especially for native Americans who traditionally were not used to a lot of possessions anyway. These legends predate the material possessions this chief was talking about - IE cars, jewelry, ect.

Scapegoats are often made out of the poor with the charge of witch, but that's an entirely different darkness.

Originally posted by hadriana
No, the trick is not SOMEONE - but "SOMEONE YOU LOVE"
and love is not usually associated with murder. Other emotions are, like jealousy or whatnot. Love is often incompatable with greed.

I think that this requirement is probably merely symbolic - if one were willing to do that, one probably would not have to do it.

And no, I don't think being poor itself would be an inpetus to serious study of magick,especially for native Americans who traditionally were not used to a lot of possessions anyway. These legends predate the material possessions this chief was talking about - IE cars, jewelry, ect.

Scapegoats are often made out of the poor with the charge of witch, but that's an entirely different darkness.

Yes, I could murder somebody I love and sleep easy about it. Sad to say.

Originally posted by Thunderheart
reply to post by Omega85

 

Why do you people insist on talking about these things?
Some things should just be left alone, seriously.

Originally posted by Omega85
reply to post by Thunderheart

 

if you dont like it then thats too bad , feel free to pollute other threads with your off topic whining because any further off topic and non constructively useless comments by you in this thread will be deleted . Thanks .

blatant waste of bandwidth and non common sense from the above member and i will moderate the thread with more vigilance from now on

...maybe you took thunderheart's post wrong... i dont think it was "off topic whining" and i question your threat to delete any further comments from them that dont suit you...

...about thunderheart's post... i've heard the same from traditionals who 100% believe-in the old legends of their tribe... it makes them uncomfortable when outsiders either try to adopt those old beliefs or try to explain them... they believe its dangerous to dabble in things you dont understand because speaking of such things is the same as inviting the old evil...

...i dont know thunderheart, so my take on them is just a presumption - but - it could be that they were raised as a traditional dineh - and - if thats the case, they certainly have a right to state their disapproval of an australian speaking of things that are dineh... of course, i'm presuming that you, omega, are australian and not a relocated dineh...

...point is - we're all presuming, so maybe you shouldnt be so harsh just in case your presumptions are totally backasserds wrong...

Originally posted by Omega85
I just want to clear something up here .
The people called Skinwalkers do exist and are actually real so i think it would be better for those who are skeptical to just make sure that when you are saying things like "i dont believe its real" or the like to specify that you are skeptical of there abilities and not the people themselves . Just to clear up some confusion for anyone going through the thread the first time or anything like that .

...i do NOT believe skinwalkers exist... i will NOT lie and say they are real and that i just dont believe in their abilities because someone demands that i do so...

...maybe you didnt realize how arrogant and offensive your post to thunderheart was... if so, well, we all make mistakes... try not to make this one again cuz it makes my maternal instincts wanna reach thru this monitor, get up close and personal and say "be nice or go to your room and read war and peace 100 times!"...

Thanks OP for posting this.

It appears as a form of witchcraft, for even western witches were capable of occupying different animal forms.
But technically it also seques with the concept of spirits ability to occupy other bodies.

There also exist these large wolf men in Wisconsin that are suspected as being skin walkers as well.

To the noise makers here...

This IS a conspiracy and alternative news sounding board folks. Sorry, but there is a air of censorship occurring here on ATS that just plain stinks.

Just to remind you about the 1st Amendment of Bill of RIghts guaranteeing the right to peaecably assembly and FREE SPEECH.

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law “respecting an establishment of religion,” impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

Some of us visit ATS specifically to discuss things that we cannot discuss amongst the general population/public.

We mean no harm to others, but we're merely interested in sharing our knowledge of intriguing and fascinating aspects of the Paranormal.

IF YOU DONT HAVE AN INTEREST IN DISCUSSING THE TOPIC , OR HAVE ANYTHING MEANINGFUL IN WHICH TO CONTRIBUTE, THEN PLEASE LEAVE ! And take your worthless commentary with you.

Plain and Simple.

THANK YOU.

en.wikipedia.org...

Altho you have some interesting stuff on here........

Im not one to subscribe that skinwalkers are 100 percent real, thats kind of a reckless statement to make especially with no proof...

if thats all it takes for you to believe that something is 100 percent real, then perhaps EVERYTHING that was ever lore through human history was real in your eyes?

Just saying, my family history is native american and there are lots and lots of legends and tales, most serve their purpose.......

also, its bothersome to threaten that peoples posts will be deleted when you arent a mod, and when they dont coincide with your own views.........

Isnt that what ATS is for? Open discussion and ideas?

Anyway keep researching it is a very interesting subject, I love folklore

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask



Yeah, yeah, Thank you to the member above yours for posting what Thunderheart meant , I did take it the wrong way and i really do apologize to Thunderheart and the rest of you for my pigheadedness .

MBTM - Youll find in the rules that minimalist and off topic posts will be deleted and just to make it clear to you I didnt say I would delete them personally and thats not only my views but staff aswell .

Now that thats sorted we can get back on the topic , feel free to u2u me about anything off topic .


I have seen enough in my eyes both what i have posted and from a source to believe these people are real , but thats just me personally and its only natural that people will accept different degrees of proof on any subject before they come to a conclusion .

I am waiting on some data from a good friend of mine so when i get it i will add it to this thread .
Again thank you for the posts .


Omega