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Is it suicide to wish for contact? I think it is

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posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:28 PM
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While its naive to think that in the vastness of our universe we are alone, its also naive to think that we should be in contact with any other race.

Stephen Hawking mentioned he believes due to the vastness of our universe, there are most likely aliens. He also in the same breath mentioned that we should NOT be actively trying to find them, as we have no reason to assume they would come in peace. Why would they? They are not bound by human morals. Morals are a strictly human concept. It is safe to assume an animal does not feel guilt when it kills its prey to eat. If they are "enlightened" and godless, why on earth would they need us for anything but resources? What could we possibly offer them?

Now im sure some of you will respond with "they are advanced and evolved. Their morals must be better than ours!". I dont see it that way, and apparently neither does Stephen Hawking. As well, we can safely assume if they can traverse the universe at greater than light speeds or perhaps "warp" or bend space. They have it all figured out and wouldnt "need" us for anything other than perhaps our resources.

Perhaps you think we were "seeded" on earth by them. I would like to suggest if this is the case, they are certainly uninhibited by morals. Why leave us here to our own volition when they could guide us from the beginning? Are we some giant experiement for them? Are they leaving us here to see if we can evolve and mature on our own? To what purpose? Why let us suffer the unimaginable pain of two world wars only to interfere now like some here believe? A truely caring, moral parent could never stand by and watch while innocent women, children and more are tortured and killed everyday on earth.

Link to Hawkings statements on aliens:
www.huffingtonpost.com...&title=Charlie_Rose_

Are we so frightened of ourselves that we need to hinge our hopes and dreams of aliens saving us from ourselves? I suggest if we will find salvation, we will find it within ourselves.

Ps. As an edit, i want to make it clear i dont actually believe they would come as enemies. The more likely scenerio imo would be a very dangeous indifference. We simply cannot assume they are moral in a human sense. After all, moral values differ greatly from one person to another, and often even more from one human race to another. Its fairly safe to assume that is aliens did exhibit a sense of morality, there is no reason to believe it would be in line with ours at all.
edit on 19-8-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


I have to agree......

We can theorise on how a 'more evolved civilisation' might be but we can't be 100% certain and I for one don't feel like betting on anything less than a 100% certainty when it comes to my children's future.

I didnt get a vote when we sent out messages into space.... Who the hell decided that we should do that?


The collection of images includes many photographs and diagrams both in black and white and color. The first images are of scientific interest, showing mathematical and physical quantities, the solar system and its planets, DNA, and human anatomy and reproduction.


link


Not clever IMO.....

The most abundant and successful beings on our planet are INSECTS and if the Dinosaurs hadn't had a terrible mishap they would be here not us, so to assume that evolution results in a civilised society is just really stupid and arrogant.


edit on 19/8/11 by Versa because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by Versa
 


Agreed. The probe sent out into space showing our exact location in our galaxy could be one of mankinds most fatal errors. It was done in a time of endless optimism about space travel and the hopes that zero-gravity research could solve all our problems.

Im of the opinion where space is simply too vast for contact to be made, but thats another issue entirely. I dont worry about aliens coming, but i think its fatalistic to hope for contact. We simply have NO reason to believe they would be our saviours.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


Its only very recently (the past 110 yrs or so) that we have been 'broadcasting' our existence via radio waves etc and very soon our technology will be such that we cease to send out these broadcasts... We are living in the unfashionable arm of a galaxy that is far from the epicentre of the universe and I think we should keep it that way!

When we see film footage of tribes that have had no contact with the rest of the human race what is the first thing we say??? Keep them safe, isolated and uncontaminated by us..... I'm pretty sure that's what any intelligent life out there would be saying.

I dont want the man eating locusts to find my children, but I didn't get to vote on that did I? Some eggheads with less common sense than a flea decided that.


Originally posted by nightbringr
Im of the opinion where space is simply too vast for contact to be made, but thats another issue entirely. I dont worry about aliens coming, but i think its fatalistic to hope for contact. We simply have NO reason to believe they would be our saviours.


I agree I think the chances of contact are slim to nothing, unless space is literally swarming with life.
edit on 19/8/11 by Versa because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:48 PM
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I believe that to say that morality is a human concept is a little naive. I would though agree that contact in some regards could be dangerous but in other regards could be a step forward for us. not in a technological state of matter but an obvious fault of the human race is to make presumtions and each of us are all guilty of making our own.

There are casualties in all wars but perhaps just perhaps the gift of knowledge could be more precious to us than the gift of technology?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:49 PM
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I guess it is also safe to assume the high probability that any civilization that has the capability of lengthy space travel wouldn't necessarily want to kill every other type of civilization it comes across.

Furthermore, whether signals from Earth were intentionally sent out, wouldn't it not matter because of our T.V signals anyway?

Let's also not forget that we will most likely come across another civilization one day, and we will most likely be the bully's

edit on 19-8-2011 by Violence because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2011 by Violence because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


Apparently NASA have been talking about this , I read this yesterday :


Shawn Domagal-Goldman of Nasa's Planetary Science Division and his colleagues compiled a list of plausible outcomes that could unfold in the aftermath of a close encounter, to help humanity "prepare for actual contact".

In their report, Would Contact with Extraterrestrials Benefit or Harm Humanity? A Scenario Analysis, the researchers divide alien contacts into three broad categories: beneficial, neutral or harmful.

Beneficial encounters ranged from the mere detection of extraterrestrial intelligence (ETI), for example through the interception of alien broadcasts, to contact with cooperative organisms that help us advance our knowledge and solve global problems such as hunger, poverty and disease.

Another beneficial outcome the authors entertain sees humanity triumph over a more powerful alien aggressor, or even being saved by a second group of ETs. "In these scenarios, humanity benefits not only from the major moral victory of having defeated a daunting rival, but also from the opportunity to reverse-engineer ETI technology," the authors write.

Other kinds of close encounter may be less rewarding and leave much of human society feeling indifferent towards alien life. The extraterrestrials may be too different from us to communicate with usefully. They might invite humanity to join the "Galactic Club" only for the entry requirements to be too bureaucratic and tedious for humans to bother with. They could even become a nuisance, like the stranded, prawn-like creatures that are kept in a refugee camp in the 2009 South African movie, District 9, the report explains.

The most unappealing outcomes would arise if extraterrestrials caused harm to humanity, even if by accident. While aliens may arrive to eat, enslave or attack us, the report adds that people might also suffer from being physically crushed or by contracting diseases carried by the visitors. In especially unfortunate incidents, humanity could be wiped out when a more advanced civilisation accidentally unleashes an unfriendly artificial intelligence, or performs a catastrophic physics experiment that renders a portion of the galaxy uninhabitable.

To bolster humanity's chances of survival, the researchers call for caution in sending signals into space, and in particular warn against broadcasting information about our biological make-up, which could be used to manufacture weapons that target humans. Instead, any contact with ETs should be limited to mathematical discourse "until we have a better idea of the type of ETI we are dealing with."


Source



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by TheBeardlessMessiah

There are casualties in all wars but perhaps just perhaps the gift of knowledge could be more precious to us than the gift of technology?


well are you really willing to bet EVERYTHING on them 'gifting' us knowledge???? Is that something that seems likely to you given your past experience of life? Bear in mind that we do only have our past experience to genuinely go by, anything else is a cerebral exercise...



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:54 PM
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I don't thing Stephen Hawking's argument holds true...

To say that morals are purely a human concept is untrue.

Morals are part of a self-aware system of consciousness.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by Versa
 

My point is just to acknowledge the existence of another being would be a great advancement of knowledge for our race would it not? My opinion is we can gain knowledge from every thing we come across in life.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by BadMagician
Morals are part of a self-aware system of consciousness.


according to who??? Us humans....... but that doesnt necessarily hold true for beings we cant even begin to understand. That is the point.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by TheBeardlessMessiah
reply to post by Versa
 

My point is just to acknowledge the existence of another being would be a great advancement of knowledge for our race would it not? My opinion is we can gain knowledge from every thing we come across in life.


If that life lasts for all of 1 second then no, I don't see us learning a great deal.....

Us..... 'Oooo look they've come. What can we lear...............'
Them.. 'Target exterminated'
edit on 19/8/11 by Versa because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by Violence
I guess it is also safe to assume the high probability that any civilization that has the capability of lengthy space travel wouldn't necessarily want to kill every other type of civilization it comes across.


I dont believe they would come as enemies. What i do fear is a great indifference.

A race unbother by human morals would most likely be completely indifferent to our existance. This in itself creates the danger. If they need our rare earth elements, they might at first tell us they are taking them. If we agree, fine. If not, the extermination begins.

To me this is just as real, if not a greater possibility than them being our saviors. What do they have to gain by coming here and "saving" us from ourselves? A sense of well-being? I think that is a very naive thought.

The important thing here to remember is they are NOT human. They have very different physical makeups and obviously different brains and thought patterns. Why must they adhere to our sense of morals?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by BadMagician
I don't thing Stephen Hawking's argument holds true...

To say that morals are purely a human concept is untrue.

Morals are part of a self-aware system of consciousness.


How so? Any proof you can offer to this would be helpful.

I dont believe that to be true. I believe we must be fully self-aware and have an ID and EGO to develop morals. So do prominent psychologist. Granted, that might not mean much, but it makes more sense to me.

I dont believe lions feel guilt for eatting their prey. Veggans however can very much so. I have never heard of a lion starving because it refused to harm another living creature.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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I would have to disagree with the whole idea this is suicide.

If creatures evolve, then they have to co-operate.

Regardless of the resources a species has, what is the one thing it needs to do to get off a rock? It has to unite and work towards a common goal. No species completely without morals is going to be able to do that. Basic game theory rules it out. All the resources in the universe won't make up for a species that can't work together and working together also means working without elements on their planet such as other creatures as they are also resources.

Am not sure why everyone is panicking about it suddenly. What possible gain would an alien race have from destroying us? There's plenty of planet, plenty of resources, and am fairly sure they invented something better than the standard dish washer and easy chef set to rule out basic slavery.

Unless I suppose you one of those persons that believes aliens come from millions of miles away to make us stack rocks on top of one another and draw elaborate patterns in the desert. Those aliens might kill us, but those aliens are kind of silly.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by Versa
 

We can hold a stone found on the floor it has no life not one day. But still holds knowledge in its story even if it may only be told by a Petrologist, a story can travel a million miles. If the life span is only one day that one day is still an adventure.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:07 PM
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You guys are assuming that any aliens would be as violent as us. We don't know what they would be like.

and hey, if they are violent,we have been preparing by fighting ourselves, for as long as we have been around.


If any aliens come to our planet, it is reasonable to assume they have evolved passed the need for violence....


What is suicide is NOT looking for more advanced species out there that could help us get over our own issues.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by Versa
 

Just to clarify as for the extermination I may not have the knowledge but im pretty sure they wont be daleks.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:13 PM
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I think a good way to look at the conundrum is to think of contact much like dying. Beliefs, no matter how strong, will remain beliefs until it happens.

You can hope there's a heaven/evolutionary step awaiting you after life (aliens being wonderful), fear you're destined for hell (aliens being jerks), or believe it's just the end (aliens indifferent), but no matter your belief, you won't know for sure until you die (extraterrestrials make contact).

I personally don't fancy the notion that beings capable of interstellar travel are as primitive as us in our thinking, but of course that's basing my assumptions off of the notion that interstellar is as difficult as we think. Maybe we're just dumb for our age, and if that is the case, we could very well encounter aliens that are on the same stunted moral plane with us (albeit with a few technological leaps ahead). Of course it could also be the case that those extraterrestrials were contacted by a benevolent race, butchered those hippies, and stole their tech for space conquering purposes.

Honestly, I can think of dozens of scenarios off the top of my head where it could swing either way, but in the end, what's the point of all of this government sponsored theorizing? They should take that money and try to actually get us out there, rather than waiting for something smarter than us to stop by. Into the breach, I say!



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Pinke
I would have to disagree with the whole idea this is suicide.

If creatures evolve, then they have to co-operate.

Regardless of the resources a species has, what is the one thing it needs to do to get off a rock? It has to unite and work towards a common goal.



Untrue.

I can forsee a time during the cold war when two superpowers were opposed, aiming world ending nukes at each other.

This cold war drove innovation in many ways. The goal of military supremacy drove each side to spend massive amounts of money on bigger and better weapons to kill each other with. These inventions often had non-military applications.

If one of those applications provided greater then light travel (im hypothesizing of course), one side would suddenly have the means to reach out to the stars. There is no reason why they would not harness this power and use it. So a base is built on a suitable, far away planet unbeknown to the enemy.

A nuclear war on earth plays out, leaving only the remaining off-earth colony. These people then evolve and venture further out. This is how it could happen. No co-operation required.

Secondly, your arguement of evolution not taking place without co-operation falls flat in other ways. All animals on earth, humans included have had to fight for survival. Anything that evolved has either hunted or been hunted. They survived and moved on. Why must aliens have to "unite" to explore the universe? I dont see your point.



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