Jesus said, "Away from me Satan...", therefore he is not Messiah

"But there is no identification made of the Servant as Messiaha"

Bingo.Lol

Over twenty years ago, I had a waking vision of John the Baptist. Now, I don't actually need to tell about the vision to make my point about him being the suffering servant, I only mention it because it was the scariest thing I've ever witnessed in my life so far.

It's Jesus who was living inside the prophet Isaiah and it's Jesus doing the talking. He's not calling himself a servant, he's talking about someone who is subject to him. To properly understand Jesus working through Isaiah, one only needs to look at what King David said "the LORD said to my Lord." The LORD is Father God and David's Lord - is Jesus inside of him (it's why Jesus is the Son).

John said he needed to be baptized by Jesus, but Jesus told him to "suffer it" to be so for now, so that all righteousness could be fulfilled.

Jesus said that John is least in the kingdom and those that recognize the kingdom will become greater than John. But, it also says - the least amongst you will become the greatest. And in the dead sea scrolls, at the messianic banquet, the kingly messiah yields to the priestly messiah..

At the transfiguration Jesus tells the disciples that Elijah has come and they have done all they wished to do to him - just as it is WRITTEN about him. The disciples knew he was talking of John and the place where all this is written is Isaiah.

And finally Jesus himself, said that John was more than a prophet.

That's my biblical evidence for John being the servant. I will add one thing. There is something in the Gospel of Thomas, that he says of John the Baptist, that just clinches it all for me. It wouldn't make sense to anyone else, unless they have the vision. But it prooves to me, that the Gospel of Thomas are the actual words of Jesus Christ himself and for it not to be included in the canon is an injustice to the advancement of everyones spirital well being.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

It's Jesus who was living inside the prophet Isaiah and it's Jesus doing the talking. He's not calling himself a servant, he's talking about someone who is subject to him.

I read the wikipedia article about the 4 servant passages in Isaiah. I don't think was Isaiah 1,2,or 3 but some other prophet who put those passages in the book. At least one of those passages was tampered with later. That first person interjection did strike me as straight from the Spirit of Christ in whoever the prophet was.

Back about 1983, I read somewhere(can't remember what book) of an early Christian sect in Ethiopia (up to about the 600s AD) that held John the Baptist in highest esteem. Check this out!

AC 8:26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road--the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza." 27 So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians. This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, 28 and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the book of Isaiah the prophet. 29 The Spirit told Philip, "Go to that chariot and stay near it."

AC 8:30 Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. "Do you understand what you are reading?" Philip asked.

AC 8:31 "How can I," he said, "unless someone explains it to me?" So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.

AC 8:32 The eunuch was reading this passage of Scripture:

"He was led like a sheep to the slaughter,
and as a lamb before the shearer is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

AC 8:33 In his humiliation he was deprived of justice.
Who can speak of his descendants?
For his life was taken from the earth."

AC 8:34 The eunuch asked Philip, "Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?" 35 Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

I guess the eunuch did a little more research into this rather than take Philip's explanation as final?

And maybe I should read the Gospel of Thomas.

reply to post by pthena


It was Philip who pleaded with Jesus to show him the Father and Jesus said 'don't you know me philip after all this time that I've been with you? If you've seen me, you've seen the Father.

The Father is spirit and everyone on the other side is still working hard to bring the truth about the good news that Jesus can live inside of them. Everything Jesus did in the physical was done literally, so that when these things happen to us we understand them spiritually. He healed a blind man, so that the whole entire would could have the opportunity to have their spiritual eyes opened.

It is so hard to make people understand how much they are loved but if one person can be made to understand things of the spirit, they would then understand just how sweet the feet of the people are who bring good news are.

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Gospel of Thomas
108 Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; 2I myself shall become that person, 3and the hidden things will be revealed to him."

reply to post by pthena


Err no, this *Rabbinic* Jewish belief that Satan is merely an angel of God akin to Slugworth and not the leader of fallen angels is a much newer belief. First of all, Genesis 6 cross referenced with Enochian literature and Job clearly shows the existence of fallen angels with Satan among them. Jewish writing long before Christ shows a belief in demons and the Evil One, usually called Belial. It wasn't until Maimonides, centuries after Christ, and his rejection of "superstitions" that the concept of fallen angels was tossed out. Thus you are left with a Judaism lacking in mysticism, but abound in nationalism and laws. And people wonder why so many Jews are atheists nowadays.

Even if Satan is just a Slugworth type entity, Yeshuah still didn't do anything wrong by refusing to worship him. David bowed *before* the angel, but prayed to YHWH. I can bow *before* a tree, but actually be worshiping YHWH. Am I worshiping YHWH through the tree?

Satan demanded that Yeshuah worship him, but says nothing of worshiping YHWH. Therefor he was tempting him toward worshiping creation, which all other angels would spurn.

reply to post by kallisti36
I freely admit that I am no expert on the origins and development of Satan within Judaism. That's why I used some one else's words to present the case for the relationship of YHWH and Satan.

And people wonder why so many Jews are atheists nowadays.

I know you offered that statement as rhetorical. I will say that I don't really wonder about Jewish atheists. The only option for a god offered by their cultural upbringing is this creature YHWH, who it is obvious to many, is completely unfit for the honor of worship. Therefore atheism is the lesser of two evils. If atheism even is evil.

The question is, why do you want to worship the creature YHWH?