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Non Christian proof that Jesus (Yeshua) Existed

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posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 10:02 AM
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Here are links to some non-biblical sources that speak of Christ, many accounts from Romans themselves, in either the first century A.D. or the early part of the second century A.D.

www.gotquestions.org...
www.sowhataboutjesus.com...

Makes you wonder, why would non-christians bother writing anything at all if Christ never existed, some accounts even mention the name Jesus or Yeshua. Clearly something monumental happened, otherwise people wouldnt have been talking about it 100 years after the fact. Ordinary men are forgotten, not remembered in history. Ordinary people like you and I, our names will never see the inside of a history book. But Jesus? Even men who had no desire to be a christian, mean who worshipped pagan gods gave him recognition.

Even the Talmud mentions an account.

Talmud (sanhedrin43a): confirms Jesus' (Yeshu) crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.

So there is evidence of Jesus' existence outside of the bible. Who knew? Its amazing how people who didn't even believe in God would bother or care to remember one jew who had been executed for performing miracles among the many jews and christians that had been executed over the years. God cast a stone into the pond that rippled throughout all time indeed.




posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 10:08 AM
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No sorry you are incorrect, there is no source that confirms he was real.

Your sources are tainted with misinterpretation, come back when you have real evidence.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by FriendlyGopher
 
Please clarify the misinterpretations with supporting confirmation.

The sources seem to be fairly straightforward, so would appreciate some clarity on where you're coming to the conclusion that they aren't.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Praetorius
 


The user should be referring to these sources. Visit the links I posted.
Did Jesus exist?
Jesus never existed at all
These are two sources I user in the past when I was an Atheist. I know they will be used as sources so, you can see why people do not believe in the historic Jesus.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by FriendlyGopher
No sorry you are incorrect, there is no source that confirms he was real.

Your sources are tainted with misinterpretation, come back when you have real evidence.

Not a friendly gopher, go back to your hole.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Here are links to some non-biblical sources that speak of Christ, many accounts from Romans themselves, in either the first century A.D. or the early part of the second century A.D.

www.gotquestions.org...
www.sowhataboutjesus.com...


I don't see how you can state that these are non-christian sites. They clearly are. There isn't really any PROOF, that the same Jesus, that charactor from the Bible, which has been written and rewritten, is the same individual that people have rumoured to have met or heard about.

It's easy to insert fiction inot historical texts after the fact.

Sorry, it seems like a bad case of the "telephone game."



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by FriendlyGopher
No sorry you are incorrect, there is no source that confirms he was real.


There used to be a professional debate site, I'm not sure if it's around anymore but several years back there was a debate taking place about the existence of Jesus. As you might expect, on the "con" side was an atheist, but surprisingly on the "pro" side was a Christian and... another atheist. This wasn't your average forum debate, these guys all had credentials and it was a serious, thoughtful, well-presented debate. The atheist on the pro side offered plenty of non-Biblical evidence that Jesus existed (as did the Christian) and the atheist on the con side was reduced to complaining about the quality of the evidence as he couldn't really refute it. The bottom line is there is a lot of evidence that Jesus existed and very few people in this world deny it. Now addressing whether He was God or not is a whole other matter and obviously atheists don't think He was, but you're saying He wasn't "real" and the evidence clearly does not support your conclusion.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by FriendlyGopher
 



No sorry you are incorrect, there is no source that confirms he was real.


Pics or didn´t happened.


Your sources are tainted with misinterpretation, come back when you have real evidence.


And yet, you present no source at all in order to refute his/her claims about the secular sources.

Peace



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by FriendlyGopher
 



No sorry you are incorrect, there is no source that confirms he was real.


Pics or didn´t happened.


Your sources are tainted with misinterpretation, come back when you have real evidence.


And yet, you present no source at all in order to refute his/her claims about the secular sources.

Peace




Mission Statement of Got Questions Ministries:

"Got Questions Ministries seeks to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ by providing biblical, applicable, and timely answers to spiritually-related questions through an internet presence."

GotQuestions.org is a volunteer ministry of dedicated and trained servants who have a desire to assist others in their understanding of God, Scripture, salvation, and other spiritual topics. We are Christian, Protestant, conservative, evangelical, fundamental, and non-denominational. We view ourselves as a para-church ministry, coming alongside the church to help people find answers to their spiritually related questions.


Not a secular source (www.gotquestions.org...)



Dear Web-site reader,

Thank you for clicking on this page. Welcome to the web page of ‘Speak to My People Ministries’. This is the web page of the teaching ministry of Peter Harris.


Also not a secular source (www.sowhataboutjesus.com...)


Here's some alternative reading for consideration: nobeliefs.com...



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:52 AM
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When people ask "was Jesus real?" they mean the person who, it is claimed, was the master and lord of the universe, the miracle giving, magic power having super being who rose from the dead (with an army of zombies in tow) and now watches everyone from above, judging and burning people at will.

They don't ask whether or not there was a Jewish preacher who wondered around the middle east gathering followers before being crucified (as convicted criminals of the time were).

None of the presented information gives any evidence for the 'God' Jesus, so it doesn't really matter........



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by rogerstigers
 
rogerstigers, I think the secular sources being referred to are the non-biblical references by Tacitus, Josephus, and others from the first/second century - not the websites discussing the sources. You can find these references through other channels.

Take care.


edit on 8/19/2011 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by ManOfGod267
 
Thanks ManOfGod. I have to admit getting a bit of a chuckle out of these.

"Everyone was born after the fact, so it's all hearsay!" Well and good, I suppose - but the same people readily discount eyewitness accounts as being contradictory and usually somewhat indicative of fuddled nerves or delusion, and so on.

Additionally, the implication of the hearsay charge is that at some point, a master conspiracy (composed in good part of those willing to be martyred for this belief) somehow tricked the entire world - without anyone calling foul, apparently - into accepting a false history.

Arguments against the historicity of 'Jesus' bewilder me, admittedly - I have a much easier time understanding arguments about his alleged claims and who/what he actually was, than that he existed at all. Don't pretty much all mainstream historians concede his existence?

Thanks again, and be well.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 01:25 PM
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I don't see why the truth of his existance matters either way...

The "existance" of what is written about him regardless of if he "existed" or not, still changed the world for better or worse.

What does matter is what each person understands about what he supposedly taught. Even if he didn't exist what is written about said historical/fictional character still rings true, even to this day.




posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Here are links to some non-biblical sources that speak of Christ, many accounts from Romans themselves, in either the first century A.D. or the early part of the second century A.D.

www.gotquestions.org...
www.sowhataboutjesus.com...


I don't see how you can state that these are non-christian sites. They clearly are. There isn't really any PROOF, that the same Jesus, that charactor from the Bible, which has been written and rewritten, is the same individual that people have rumoured to have met or heard about.

It's easy to insert fiction inot historical texts after the fact.

Sorry, it seems like a bad case of the "telephone game."


The SITES are christian sites, the information they contain is from men who were pagans and worshipped other gods and they didnt rumor anything, they wrote about what they had heard from people, in effect the name "Jesus and Yeshua" were abound even in those times by men who vwere NOT christians. Let us not forget that there were Romans who had seen Christ's miracles, since Israel had been a roman province, roman soldiers and citizens would have been around all over the place and would have witnessed these miracles themselves or heard from those who had. In ages passed when a people who had been told there were someone who could heal the sick and diseased people would have come from every corner of the Roman Empire to be healed. Diseases ran rampant in those days and there were no doctors who could pass out antibiotics or perform surgeries, stories of men who could heal the sick and raise the dead would spread like a wildfire in the dog days of a texan august.
edit on 19-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 19-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





The SITES are christian sites, the information they contain is from men who were pagans and worshipped other gods and they didnt rumor anything, they wrote about what they had heard from people,


Uh huh, they worte about what they heard from other people. Rumour!




stories of men who could heal the sick and raise the dead would spread like a wildfire in the dog days of a texan august.


Fantastical stories! Thats how myths gets started. Bored soldiers and fishermen telling fantastic tales. Your arguement gives me leave to take all Bible stories with a grain of salt.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 04:55 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Many references. I just bought a copy of the complete works of Josephus. There is no question of Jesus existence. His words of truth cannot be separated from His claims of divinity. No other person in history has brought as much truth to the minds of men. Buddha was enlightening to read, but only Jesus narrows enlightenment down to the central theme of this reality. Love is the point of it all. This is the prime lesson that we are to learn.

Examine the lives and words of any man on earth before Jesus and you will find empty knowledge and partial wisdom. Examine the lives and words of any man after Jesus and you will see a reflection of the same knowledge and wisdom expressed in expanded consciousness and broadened awareness. Jesus reflects the light among men and the Living Word fulfilled in every way. He is the way, the truth and the life.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by SuperiorEd
 


Indeed. You can pray to any man on earth past or present, and feel absolutely nothing, but if you pray to christ and you can call him Jesus or Yeshua, if you have an open heart you will feel his love. The Holy Spirit will speak to your heart, and you will hear His call.

Sadly, not everyone can open their hearts to God. I was raised christian, first as baptist then as pentecostal in my later teens, but i never understood the truth as a child, i never truly believed, and i never felt the call. It wasn't until i was 32 years old that i understood and felt Him calling to me, and this is the miracle of the Lord, to be able to bring a soul out of darkness and despair and into His light.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:06 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Do you go to church now? I never go to ask you. Also do you and SE believe Jesus is God or in the Trinity?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by windword
 



It's easy to insert fiction inot historical texts after the fact.


According to your logic, then i presume Socrates, was a figment of his students imagination, since there is not a single document that contains his original works. Think about it for a second.

Peace



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by rogerstigers
 


Thank you for pointing the obvious. But as "Praetorius"said, i was referring to the secular sources as mentioned by the site. Maybe i was not clear enough, and for that i am sorry.

Also thank you for the source that you cited for alternative reading which i did.

 


Take from the first source from OP.


The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius.


Taken from your source.


Tacitus, the Roman historian's birth year at 64 C.E., puts him well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which he wrote around 109 C.E.



Wikipedia source:


Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (AD 56 – AD 117) was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire. The surviving portions of his two major works—the Annals and the Histories—examine the reigns of the Roman Emperors Tiberius, Claudius, Nero and those who reigned in the Year of the Four Emperors. These two works span the history of the Roman Empire from the death of Augustus in AD 14 to (presumably) the death of emperor Domitian in AD 96. There are enormous lacunae in the surviving texts, including one four books long in the Annals.


And here is another Source if you do not like wikipedia.

Could you explain to me why your source places the birth of Tacitus at 64 AD?

Further your source also makes the following argument for Tacitus:

He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts.


To be honest, i would be far more suspicious of a Roman historian writing an excerpt about Jesus in 30 A.D. rather approximately 95 A.D. when Christianity had reached Rome.

 


Anyway, here is the alleged text mentioned by Tacitus mentioned from the OP :


Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome...
Annals XV,44

This small passage confirms the following:
Jesus did exist
Jesus was the founder of Christianity
Jesus was put to death by Pilate
Christianity originated in Judea (With Jesus)
Christianity later spread to Rome (Through the Apostles and Evangelists)

Which is the reason why Tacitus, is mentioned in the source from the OP.

 


All those secular sources mentioned in the source from the OP are verifying Jesus existence and not His Divinity. I will encourage you to examine all the facts for yourself before reaching to a logical conclusion.

Peace



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