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12-year-old boy jailed for 30 years

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posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by loam
What a wonderful way to ensure that when he's released as an adult, he'll become the very animal they think he is now.



He already is an animal.



Originally posted by loam
Ponder for a moment the fact that our government has this power to throw a 12 year old child in prison with ADULTS.



When said 12 year old kills someone, I would expect nothing less.


Originally posted by loam
How different is this from the Taliban?



Uh, the Taliban are fighting western invaders in their homeland whilst this child was sentenced to prison and got a lesser sentence than what may have been applied for an adult who committed a similar crime.




posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:49 AM
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Originally posted by Brokenbackrest

Originally posted by The Empty Skies

Originally posted by Brokenbackrest
He's a psychopath, end of discussion.


It must be so comfortable and easy living with such a narrowed view of the world. Sometimes I envy people like you. Then I remember how dull it is seeing everything black and white

Good luck with it though. You're doing a great job.
edit on 19/8/11 by The Empty Skies because: Removing the Black Hole


This is how it works: when you murder someone, you go to jail. There is no variables here, the only way to look at it is "Black and White". I'm sure in your liberal world, you will have given him a home and paid him some compensation for causing him stress and concern during the investigation.


Aha, there they are, the "liberal" attacks. Didn't see that coming. And no, I wouldn't do anything as absurd as your over-active imagination has lead you to believe of me.

Not that it needs to be said, but anyone with an iota of reason within themselves would know that what this kid needs isn't 30 years in a prison cell. What this kid needs (if he is guilty) is serious rehabilitation - and by "rehabilitation" I don't mean "throw him in a cell for 30 years to rot".
If he is guilty he needs detention, certainly, but with that detention should come stability and it most certainly shouldn't be for 30 years.

I don't really have much to add because I know what kind of person you are and can tell that it'd probably be more productive to bash the keyboard incessantly until I've produced an entire essay of gibberish.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:51 AM
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Originally posted by The Empty Skies
Aha, there they are, the "liberal" attacks. Didn't see that coming. And no, I wouldn't do anything as absurd as your over-active imagination has lead you to believe of me.

Not that it needs to be said, but anyone with an iota of reason within themselves would know that what this kid needs isn't 30 years in a prison cell. What this kid needs (if he is guilty) is serious rehabilitation - and by "rehabilitation" I don't mean "throw him in a cell for 30 years to rot".
If he is guilty he needs detention, certainly, but with that detention should come stability and it most certainly shouldn't be for 30 years.

I don't really have much to add because I know what kind of person you are and can tell that it'd probably be more productive to bash the keyboard incessantly until I've produced an entire essay of gibberish.


Rehabilitation in the form of 23 hour solitary confinement in the same cell for 25 years, you're absolutely right!
edit on 19/8/11 by masqua because: Edited to remove growing black hole



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:06 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by kn0wh0wyou're so sure of yourself.
then care to explain how 'solitary confinement' is helping people?

and how many us inmates say the current system is making them worse.

and when you think about it, it's not that farfetched.

inmates:
- need to fend for themselves in prison
- they'll get egoistic/agressiv and most have a short temper
- are deprived of all luxury items in life (IMHO very very wrong)
- are out of society for 10-15-20-25 years, try 'reintegrating' in society when you were out of it for 25 years. society moves on, prison life does not.

imho
offenders being excluded from 'normal' society is the punishment, the prison itself doesn't have to be a second punishment.



I have a really good idea, don't like prison and missing out on the luxuries in life, don't be a criminal!
Let's just pat them on the back and warn them not to do it again instead?
Is solitary confinement used for every prisoner or just the ones that break some rules while in prison? Don't break the rules!
edit on 19/8/11 by masqua because: Edited to remove growing black quote hole



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by habfan1968
I have a really good idea, don't like prison and missing out on the luxuries in life, don't be a criminal!
Let's just pat them on the back and warn them not to do it again instead?
Is solitary confinement used for every prisoner or just the ones that break some rules while in prison? Don't break the rules!


ehm solitary confinement is not only for prisoners who disobeyed the rules while in prison.

like i said before, even you can be a criminal.

i´ve lately seen a documentary on a prison in India, it was the most luxureous prison in the world.
and i liked the idea.

the prisoners had acces to allmost anything:
- they had a swimming pool
- they could eat whenever they want
- they weren't locked up for 23 hours a day
- they could get family visits whenever they liked

these basic commodities keep people from losing their true self and turning into an animal.
edit on 19/8/11 by masqua because: Edited to remove growing black hole
edit on 19/8/11 by masqua because: fixed quote



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:11 AM
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WIth so many laws passed by government, everybody is a criminal at some point in their lives usually out of ignorance.

That is what annoys me when people take their soap box and spout "so don't be a ciminal then", well that is very hard to do. What you really mean is, DONT GET CAUGHT.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by habfan1968
 


so yeah, i think prisoners deserve some luxury.

seperation from 'normal' society is the punishment, prison shouldn't be a punishment in itself.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by kn0wh0w
 


Sorry, in no way do criminals deserve these things. It is punishment not funishment. This boy will not be integrated into a regular prison until he is 18, he will be in juvi until then.

Your ideal prison would not work. Never mind that there are victims to these crimes, where is the justice for them?

Separation from society is needed for these criminals, They took a life, why should they be allowed to live theirs in comfort?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:23 AM
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Funny thing is that in 6 years the boy could have gone into the military and got a medal for the same actions.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised at all if this guy, after being 30 years in hell... erm "prison", will go to the store down the road, buy some guns and use them to kill the judge or some other innocents. It wouldn't be nor the first or the last time this happen, you bet. I really do not understand this view of the "american way of life": u can buy almost whatever weapon u want with the excuse that "someone" (children-eating communists obviously) could invade your property and u've the right to shoot him/her in the face (just like the other day happened to that policeman, remember?) but when someone, in this case a CHILD (because, u like it or not HE IS a 12 years old boy, NOT a terrorist or a serial killer), use by chance those weapons in the wrong way, u've two choices: go to death or go to jail for the rest of your life. U fear the weapons and the violence but u can buy destructive weapons as you want and when you want. In my country if someone UNDER 18 years does something wrong the parents are responsible: where his janitors were? why that gun was so easily stolen by him? who was in charge of that weapon? who is this idiotic judge that wasted ANOTHER life instead of recovering it? wouldn't it be more pratical and ethic to condemn him to death immediately? this judge is a blind person that doesn't believe in the future and probably lives in another dimension: where our children live? in a society that is continually flooded with WRONG messages all the time, from TV spots to films, to comics, school, internet and so on and WE ADULTS GRANT this status quo. Is this 12 years old boy a victim? YES! Is this 12 years old guilty of committing an abominable act? YES! Can we recover him? PROBABLY, unless he has some really bad mental illness and in that case 30 years to jail are even more stupid. This judge probably wants to go to Congress and this one is only another step into the "right" direction.
moreover, what do u think this guy will experience in an adult prison? violence? of course! rape? ohh yesss! and all sort of NIGHTMARE u can imagine not for a single night but for 30 years! then, as an adult, at 42 he'll be freed and let me understand, what will he DO in your opinion? he will commit suicide? or he will seek REVENGE at any cost? he will be the person that has nothing to loose, a perfect candidate for a murderer. but it's not our problem... our sons will face him because we'll be elder or in tombs when time comes! good luck!

my 0,0000002 euro-cents... and SORRY for my english



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 


Usually they are given juvi. life until 21 yoa... Deep



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:37 AM
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reply to post by Brokenbackrest
 




It must really be miserable to hold your world view.

I'm glad I don't suffer from whatever problems of perspective you seem to have...



Originally posted by Brokenbackrest

Originally posted by loam
What a wonderful way to ensure that when he's released as an adult, he'll become the very animal they think he is now.



He already is an animal.



It is asserted the 15 year old's motive was to eliminate the step-father to make way for his divorced parents to get back together again. The 12 year old, it was asserted, thought initially he was part of a 'run-away' plan, but was at the last minute bullied into participation of the murder when he arrived at the home.

So the older child's crime was born out of profound pain at the divorce of his parents and the younger one by fear of his older friend.

Angels? Hardly. They're obviously two very damaged children. But animals?

I'd be more inclined to reserve that term for the adults and supporters of a system that think this is the way to address this kind of problem. Incarcerating children with other adult criminals is obscene.

Incidentally, where did these children get access to guns? Why don't you look into who owned them and why they were not secured?



Originally posted by Brokenbackrest

Originally posted by loam
Ponder for a moment the fact that our government has this power to throw a 12 year old child in prison with ADULTS.



When said 12 year old kills someone, I would expect nothing less.


Then in my opinion you are as much of the problem.


For those who are interested... Here is a quick look at his new home and roommates.



Wabash Valley Correctional Facility










Originally posted by Brokenbackrest

Originally posted by loam
How different is this from the Taliban?



Uh, the Taliban are fighting western invaders in their homeland whilst this child was sentenced to prison and got a lesser sentence than what may have been applied for an adult who committed a similar crime.


Then that explains much.

You see the Taliban as 'freedom fighters'... which means much of this discussion with you is likely pointless.


I guess this child's mistake was that he didn't commit this murder for religious or political reasons.


You also seem to know absolutely nothing about the actual incarceration facts in this country. The national median number of sentencing months for murder is 262 months. This 12 year old child got 360 months.


How do you think he fits in the top half of the nation's murders?


edit on 19-8-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by loam
Then that explains much.
You see the Taliban as 'freedom fighters'... Already I see much of this discussion with you is likely pointless.

edit on 19-8-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)


I do not think of the taliban as freedom fighters, I was explaining the difference between them and his case. I'd like to know where you got the impression that I think they are freedom fighters.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by JennaDarling
WIth so many laws passed by government, everybody is a criminal at some point in their lives usually out of ignorance.

That is what annoys me when people take their soap box and spout "so don't be a ciminal then", well that is very hard to do. What you really mean is, DONT GET CAUGHT.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


Petty crimes and misdemeanors are not at issue here Jenna, it is high crimes we are talking about. People take a life, destroy a life etc... and found guilty of these crimes should be dealt with harshly.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by habfan1968
reply to post by kn0wh0w
 

Your ideal prison would not work. Never mind that there are victims to these crimes, where is the justice for them?


ah, i see...

but the current system IS working then?

i'd like to be a warden of a 'correctional institution'.

i'm sure i could do a lot better.


the offender is tried and sentenced to prison, that's justice.

or is it only justice when he's locked up 23 hours a day under circumstances i wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy??

the PUNISHMENT in itself is seperation from society, millionth time i said this.

when you people feel that is not punishment enough in itself, that says something about YOU.

offcourse i feel for the victims involved.

but do you really think these people see a conviction as 'justice' ?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by JennaDarling
WIth so many laws passed by government, everybody is a criminal at some point in their lives usually out of ignorance.

That is what annoys me when people take their soap box and spout "so don't be a ciminal then", well that is very hard to do. What you really mean is, DONT GET CAUGHT.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


Petty crimes and misdemeanors are not at issue here Jenna, it is high crimes we are talking about. People take a life, destroy a life etc... and found guilty of these crimes should be dealt with harshly.


Absolutely right, we should murder them back, it's called the death penalty.

There is nothing hypocritical in that at all, it shows a GOOD example of a good civilised society.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by JennaDarling
WIth so many laws passed by government, everybody is a criminal at some point in their lives usually out of ignorance.

That is what annoys me when people take their soap box and spout "so don't be a ciminal then", well that is very hard to do. What you really mean is, DONT GET CAUGHT.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


Petty crimes and misdemeanors are not at issue here Jenna, it is high crimes we are talking about. People take a life, destroy a life etc... and found guilty of these crimes should be dealt with harshly.


Absolutely right, we should murder them back, it's called the death penalty.

There is nothing hypocritical in that at all, it shows a GOOD example of a good civilised society.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


exactly!

for the death penalty to be executed you allways create a second killer because someone:
- has to pull the trigger
- has to flip the switch
- has to give the lethal injection

so yeah.

fixing murder with murder.

we're really evolving as a species don't you think!?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by JennaDarling
WIth so many laws passed by government, everybody is a criminal at some point in their lives usually out of ignorance.

That is what annoys me when people take their soap box and spout "so don't be a ciminal then", well that is very hard to do. What you really mean is, DONT GET CAUGHT.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


Petty crimes and misdemeanors are not at issue here Jenna, it is high crimes we are talking about. People take a life, destroy a life etc... and found guilty of these crimes should be dealt with harshly.


Absolutely right, we should murder them back, it's called the death penalty.

There is nothing hypocritical in that at all, it shows a GOOD example of a good civilised society.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


So, if a member of your family were brutally murdered for no reason whatsoever, what would you want to happen to the offender? I'm asking because you are obviously opposed to the death penalty, if I'm reading your sarcasm correctly.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by kn0wh0w

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by habfan1968

Originally posted by JennaDarling
WIth so many laws passed by government, everybody is a criminal at some point in their lives usually out of ignorance.

That is what annoys me when people take their soap box and spout "so don't be a ciminal then", well that is very hard to do. What you really mean is, DONT GET CAUGHT.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


Petty crimes and misdemeanors are not at issue here Jenna, it is high crimes we are talking about. People take a life, destroy a life etc... and found guilty of these crimes should be dealt with harshly.


Absolutely right, we should murder them back, it's called the death penalty.

There is nothing hypocritical in that at all, it shows a GOOD example of a good civilised society.

edit on 19-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


exactly!

for the death penalty to be executed you allways create a second killer because someone:
- has to pull the trigger
- has to flip the switch
- has to give the lethal injection

so yeah.

fixing murder with murder.

we're really evolving as a species don't you think!?


We could evolve better were it not for people like you, holding back justice systems from issuing punishments designed to prevent re-offending.






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