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How NOT to debunk a thread

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posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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ATS has some of the most closed-minded people I've seen, which seems remarkable to me considering the nature of discussion here. There is just so much potential, but much of it is wasted because people get caught up in their own ego. They are more worried about 'proving' someone's point of view is wrong than they are about finding the right point of view, together.

Posts just go back and forth trying to 'debunk' the others, and prove each other wrong. This is not intellectually stimulating conversation. Nobody expands their horizons, it just leads to a lot of bickering and talking in circles. If you are not going to go into a thread with an open mind, and be willing to consider others views, despite a lack of evidence, then there is really no reason to be here. If you are looking for a bunch of people to agree with you, and pat you on the back, you're in the wrong place.

Some threads need to be debunked. They are either just bat# crazy, with no basis in reality, or they rely heavily on false information. But most threads don't need to be debunked. No one is dictating a new principle or law, just possibilities. With that said, here are some examples on how NOT to debunk a thread:

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"This phenonomon can be explained by __obscure scientific explanation___"
Yeah, so? Events can have more than one cause, and having an explanation for a similar event does not preclude later events from having alternate explanations. It is narrow minded to think that just because some instances of time loss, for example, can be explained medically, that ALL instances of time loss are medical conditions.

I see so many people saying "Aliens are just demons." or "UFOs are just government craft". The fact is, until one claim or the other is proven, they should both be treated with equal respect. And EVEN after that, that doesn't mean all future events will still fall under those same explanations. A contrary position does not automatically have to invalidate yours. By allowing multiple explanations for a single phenonomon to exist as possibilities, you open your mind up and become closer to finding the truth.

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"This photo/video/story could have been faked. Where's the empiracle evidence?"
Instead of focusing so much on forcing the poster to provide something that doesn't exist (because let's face it, if there was empiracle evidence, it wouldn't be in the realm of conspiracy theory) we should focus the discussion on the merits and possibility of the idea itself. Is there anything that falsifies it? How could you get more evidence to support the theory? What are the implications if it is true? You don't need to be convinced of something to explore it, and have both parties come out with a better understanding.

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"Deny ignorance, EVER HEARD OF IT?"
Ironically, this is one of the most ignorant things I've heard on this site. It generally gets thrown at anyone who fails to side with you, regardless of the circumstances. Many different opinions exist, and the reason for someone holding a different viewpoint than you is usually not ignorance, but a different interpretation of the circumstances. What is ignorant, however, is you assuming that they are stupid because they don't agree with you.

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In short, I think we could take our discussions to a whole other level if we focused less on 'debunking' each other, and more on challenging each other and our self. We all know so little in the grand scheme of things, we should spend more time working together to find solutions, instead of trying to tear others down. Instead of going into a thread assuming your point of view is right, try assuming BOTH of your opinions are right, and use their beliefs to expand and challenge your own, whether you believe their premise or not.
edit on 18-8-2011 by Akasirus because: Grammar Nazi




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 11:56 PM
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Here I am, trying to figure out what to write and...why bother, you already wrote down everything I could say about this!

You are totally right, all the way!



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 11:59 PM
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If you have a closed mind not even the TRUTH will change it!

How ever not all UFOs are balloons
Missing time ?

So many different topics..so many varibles
What explains one wont explain the rest

Good Rant S&F



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 03:05 AM
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The laziest debunking I have seen is when someone parks thereself in a thread and calls out to phage.

Seriously folks, this is lazy. "I'd debunk this but instead I'll just say "wait till phage gets here..."" and leave an emoticon.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:43 AM
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reply to post by Akasirus
 


you forgot to mention the reverse of your pics vs. empirical evidence

when the latter is used, the same folks will demand pics along with peer reviewed studies. lol
in other words a ufo could hover over their house and dump out it's waste in their backyard but they won't believe that the stinking pile of alien turds and leftovers is alien, until it's published in a peer reviewed journal.

lol or phage comes by and says:
"yes, that is definitely alien poop you have there."
[not attacking phage]

S&F



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 07:40 PM
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reply to post by Akasirus
 


Wonderful thread! I hope everyone reads it and takes it to heart.

But, I have to say that above everything you mentioned, I really can't tolerate the people who don't like your ideas and insist on saying "You're an idiot! This is stupid! You're stupid! I can't believe I wasted my time reading this! This is such BS!"

This has got to stop.
The only idiots are the ones who must bully. If you have nothing constructive to comment about, simply walk away without posting anything at all.
edit on 19-8-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Akasirus
 


Wonderful thread! I hope everyone reads it and takes it to heart.

But, I have to say that above everything you mentioned, I really can't tolerate the people who don't like your ideas and insist on saying "You're an idiot! This is stupid! You're stupid! I can't believe I wasted my time reading this! This is such BS!"

This has got to stop.
The only idiots are the ones who must bully. If you have nothing constructive to comment about, simply walk away without posting anything at all.
edit on 19-8-2011 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)


Yup, that's another one that gripes me: people posting about how unhelpful, redundant, or a waste of time the previous comment was, without adding or contributing anything themselves.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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I had this problem just saying that I am a Christian, and I am not even preaching!

But there are a few here (you know who you are) that instantly call me close minded or weak minded and even ignorant yet never had a word with me.

Sad state of affairs when your judged even before you speak.

and yes that alien poop in my backyard, but I used it as fertilizer




posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 05:47 AM
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Couldn't have said it better. However we also have to consider the so call "debunker" may have access to information not available to the general public. That being said there no reason to be rude or condescending; Just state what you know because some aren't going to ever believe somethings... even the truth.



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by Bullcookies
Couldn't have said it better. However we also have to consider the so call "debunker" may have access to information not available to the general public. That being said there no reason to be rude or condescending; Just state what you know because some aren't going to ever believe somethings... even the truth.


I think this is great, as long as they make that unknown information available to everyone.

"I know this isn't true, I have contacts in the government, but I can't give you any more info than that"

Unless you have built up trust with people already, this statement doesn't mean anything, and even then people are going to have a hard time swallowing it.

But there are so many self proclaimed 'experts'. One week they are debunking a photo with their 'graphic design expertise', and then the next week they are suddenly an 'audio engineer'.

Your best bet, instead of relying on your supposed expertise, or unknown information, is to explain why you are against the post in rational terms, with examples others can replicate and understand. Sure, use your skillset to come to the conclusions, but be prepared to support it in ways people can understand.

Thanks for your post!



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Akasirus
 


Thank you, Akasirus I will take this information without hesitation!



posted on Aug, 24 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Yep- pretty much spot on, although you havent mentioned the classic "ALL ufo witnesses are either lying or mistaken" spoken from on high, even when the witnesses are pilots/astronauts/policemen etc, or, when dealing with any sort of lights in the sky, the often repeated "But thats OBVIOUSLY chinese lanterns/balloons" no matter what characteristics are displayed by said lights. Must be nice to live in such a definate world, free from questions or uncertainty!!!




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