Life IS Perfect.

reply to post by DarkCyrus


I like your analogy! We are cells in the body of God...of course each cell has the same exact make up of the whole.

We are not perfect as a human race...possibly cancerous! But that is the reality that we have manifested. In a perfect world...or in a pure body...we would be healthy happy cells. Therefore...if God is perfection and we are a mirror of that...something skewed us to exist in such a dualistic world.

reply to post by smithjustinb

There is no imbalance. This is the belief of imperfection and is nothing more than a belief. Everything has its purpose.

So you really think there are no degrees of happiness?

Can the belief in imperfection motivate the pursuit to make different? To distinguish value?

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

There is no imbalance. This is the belief of imperfection and is nothing more than a belief. Everything has its purpose.

So you really think there are no degrees of happiness?

No, I believe there are degrees of happiness.

Can the belief in imperfection motivate the pursuit to make different? To distinguish value?

edit on 18-8-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)

Yes, that's exactly what it does, but anything made different or is still made imperfect.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Originally posted by juveous
Can the belief in imperfection motivate the pursuit to make different? To distinguish value?

Yes, that's exactly what it does, but anything made different or is still made imperfect.

See and that is what I don't understand. - Anything made different is made imperfect.

who decides that what is created, that has a value, is imperfect?

You said nature has a perfect balance, and the nature of man as all other animals is the ability to adapt and continue it's species. Forget purpose for a second, and realize that survival is about trial and error. Error, being a large indicator for imperfection. That ability to learn and make different gives us a survival advantage over other species that wouldn't probably hesitate to eat us for the same reason we do to them. Just help me understand why you think manipulating nature is imperfect?

Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Originally posted by juveous
Can the belief in imperfection motivate the pursuit to make different? To distinguish value?

Yes, that's exactly what it does, but anything made different or is still made imperfect.

See and that is what I don't understand. - Anything made different is made imperfect.

who decides that what is created, that has a value, is imperfect?

You said nature has a perfect balance, and the nature of man as all other animals is the ability to adapt and continue it's species. Forget purpose for a second, and realize that survival is about trial and error. Error, being a large indicator for imperfection. That ability to learn and make different gives us a survival advantage over other species that wouldn't probably hesitate to eat us for the same reason we do to them. Just help me understand why you think manipulating nature is imperfect?

edit on 18-8-2011 by juveous because: (no reason given)

Its not that its imperfect, its just that it leads you to believe that nature is imperfect. There is no imperfection except for imperfection perceived and imperfection perceived is imperfection experienced.

Originally posted by smithjustinb
Sorry if this post seems shallow, I've been drinking.

I meant to post this before I started drinking, and it would have flowed better. Oh well.

Don't worry about it, nobody's perfect, except maybe Jesus I guess. Then again from what I understand he really loved his wine too!

reply to post by smithjustinb


But people are a part of nature. Mistakes help us learn new and helpful information. Are you saying that when people make mistakes, that they are not exhibiting a mistake in nature?

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

But people are a part of nature. Mistakes help us learn new and helpful information. Are you saying that when people make mistakes, that they are not exhibiting a mistake in nature?

I'm saying there aren't any mistakes.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

But people are a part of nature. Mistakes help us learn new and helpful information. Are you saying that when people make mistakes, that they are not exhibiting a mistake in nature?

I'm saying there aren't any mistakes.

There is no such thing as "a wrong action attributable to bad judgment, ignorance or inattention"?

What is progress then?

Originally posted by juveous

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

But people are a part of nature. Mistakes help us learn new and helpful information. Are you saying that when people make mistakes, that they are not exhibiting a mistake in nature?

I'm saying there aren't any mistakes.

There is no such thing as "a wrong action attributable to bad judgment, ignorance or inattention"?

What is progress then?

There is no wrong action or bad judgement. There is only action and judgement. There is also ignorance and inattention but these are acceptable for their purpose.

Progress is just energy or movement. The only lasting progression is information. The information already exists in its complete form. Progress is the uncovering of information. Only the perceiver experiences imperfection AKA incompletion. The completion and perfection is there, its just not perceived.

This doesn't mean the perceiver is imperfect, it only means the perceiver perceives itself to be imperfect. This perception is a matter of choice.

reply to post by smithjustinb

Progress is the uncovering of information. Only the perceiver experiences imperfection AKA incompletion. The completion and perfection is there, its just not perceived.

This doesn't mean the perceiver is imperfect, it only means the perceiver perceives itself to be imperfect. This perception is a matter of choice.

Then is perception flawed if you choose to improve yourself? Why value the information as useful for oneself, when I can choose my self-perception as perfect?
If the information is not useful, it will likely to have less a value than useful information given our ability to retain information. Is my perceived imperfection of being able to retain or remember certain information a matter of choice?

Choice and freewill is debatable. You are a divine expression of the divine. We can not separate ourselves from the universe, it is one thing, one lump, it all moves together.
A cog in a watch may be unhappy with its lot and think that it has a choice, this will only make the cog unhappy, frustrated and confused. It wants control and believes it has control but it does not, the movement of the entire watch is like the universe. The only real choice the cog has is to beable to locate itself, know its true nature and see from where it is. If and when the cog realizes what is going on, that it is part of the whole perfect movement of the watch, it will no longer struggle, it will no longer be confused, it will be at peace with the watch and itself.
The watch works perfectly and all the cogs move in perfection, it is just that the cogs can not see the watch.

It does not mean 'improvements' can not be made to our understanding. We are curious beings, we are drawn to things that intrigue us, interest us, this is the intelligence of the universe. We don't have to stop, how could we stop? We are driven by the universe, just like the cog is driven by the watch.
The problem lies in believing that it is us doing it, that we are in control.
You are a perfect expression of oneness.

@OP: The problem is that you're making a huge spiritual gamble based on the assumption that everything is as it ought to be. You presuppose that we sit back apathetically and by default we attain ascent. If this reality is a learning environment, our ascent will be attained through action and remedy rather than apathy and observation.

Do you not find it strange that your philosophy happens to be exactly how the elite want you think?

Selfish, inactive, apathetic and non-reactive populaces are most conducive to the conveniences of the ruling class.

They ruling class have attempted this with the "turn the other cheek" mentality of Christianity. Have you noticed how so many Christians are waiting for their Lord to smith their enemies?

The ruling class have now ditched Christianity and have opted for the New Age movement to achieve to same docility of the unthinking majority.

Follow your innate sense of spirituality and moral. You don't exist to be a voyeur of the suffering of this world nor to be blind-sided to it. You exist to temper it. You're using the perceptible perfection of the holistic system of reality as an excuse for not owning up to the spiritual and moral responsibilities of the imperfections therein.

What you're majorly overlooking here is that perfection is highly subjective and it's definition conceptually varies from one being to the next. The only thing consistent about defined perfections is that the person proclaiming it believes that their definition is correct.

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Progress is the uncovering of information. Only the perceiver experiences imperfection AKA incompletion. The completion and perfection is there, its just not perceived.

This doesn't mean the perceiver is imperfect, it only means the perceiver perceives itself to be imperfect. This perception is a matter of choice.

Then is perception flawed if you choose to improve yourself? Why value the information as useful for oneself, when I can choose my self-perception as perfect?
If the information is not useful, it will likely to have less a value than useful information given our ability to retain information. Is my perceived imperfection of being able to retain or remember certain information a matter of choice?

Being aware of perfection is being aware of the now moment. In the now moment is all that is and the now moment is eternal. That is perfection and that is all you need to be aware of. No past, no future, just now.

Originally posted by rexusdiablos
@OP: The problem is that you're making a huge spiritual gamble based on the assumption that everything is as it ought to be. You presuppose that we sit back apathetically and by default we attain ascent. If this reality is a learning environment, our ascent will be attained through action and remedy rather than apathy and observation.

I'm not gambling. I don't support any such assumptions. Of course there are things to do, and this is the lesson to be learned. There are starving children in Africa because we aren't helping them. That is the lesson to be learned. The situation is perfect for learning the appropriate lessons. "Bad" things happen, but they are perfectly fine because they are the teaching mechanism. This is perfection teaching itself perfection. Just because you don't know you're perfect doesn't mean you aren't.

Do you not find it strange that your philosophy happens to be exactly how the elite want you think?

You have misinterpreted my philosophy, so this statement is void.

Selfish, inactive, apathetic and non-reactive populaces are most conducive to the conveniences of the ruling class.

They ruling class have attempted this with the "turn the other cheek" mentality of Christianity. Have you noticed how so many Christians are waiting for their Lord to smith their enemies?

One who "turns the other cheek" isn't being ruled by negativity. Opportunities for anger are passed up and that gives the person with this mentality a better peace of mind. I'd rather be in prison and be happy than to be free and be angry.

The ruling class have now ditched Christianity and have opted for the New Age movement to achieve to same docility of the unthinking majority.

Follow your innate sense of spirituality and moral. You don't exist to be a voyeur of the suffering of this world nor to be blind-sided to it. You exist to temper it. You're using the perceptible perfection of the holistic system of reality as an excuse for not owning up to the spiritual and moral responsibilities of the imperfections therein.

Negative circumstances don't constitute imperfection. Everything is as it should be for the appropriate lesson to be learned.

What you're majorly overlooking here is that perfection is highly subjective and it's definition conceptually varies from one being to the next. The only thing consistent about defined perfections is that the person proclaiming it believes that their definition is correct.

edit on 19/8/2011 by rexusdiablos because: (no reason given)

Perfection is reality. What you see as perfection is perfection and what I see as perfection is perfection. What is perceived to be imperfection is still perfection misunderstood. Perfection is objective because perfection is what is.

I think our world/reality is perfect. In the sense that everything in this entire complex equation of light and molecules is happening.. Happening just the way it should. For every action there is an equal or opposite reaction. . The world, the people, the creatures, the objects... It is all doing what it needs to be doing. The human populace has overgrown its boundary. Disease and famine balance. Reproduction and antibiotics balance. For every person that doesn't care, there is one who cares. There is a constant battle for equilibrium. I feel for those suffering, and I wish I could change it.. But I cannot. My survival and personal well being are of first order, unless of course I am sacrificing for someone I love. I sacrifice for the greater good when I can. We all do what we can. We all do what we are supposed to do. Peace, Love, and Compassion can only exist if we are at equilibrium.. That is the battle, that is the purpose. When we have reached equilibrium, there will no longer be a need for us to experience this world and reality.

It is not predetermined but rather determined by the current state.

reply to post by smithjustinb


i think the opposite, certainly god, if one exists doesnt make mistakes and indeed theres an order in the universe, but i believe everything was made imperfect to teach us and give us understanding to make us wise in our sufferings.

afterall a man can't fly unless his desire leads him to the knowledge to build a plane.

Originally posted by smithjustinb

Originally posted by juveous
reply to post by smithjustinb

 

Progress is the uncovering of information. Only the perceiver experiences imperfection AKA incompletion. The completion and perfection is there, its just not perceived.

This doesn't mean the perceiver is imperfect, it only means the perceiver perceives itself to be imperfect. This perception is a matter of choice.

Then is perception flawed if you choose to improve yourself? Why value the information as useful for oneself, when I can choose my self-perception as perfect?
If the information is not useful, it will likely to have less a value than useful information given our ability to retain information. Is my perceived imperfection of being able to retain or remember certain information a matter of choice?

Being aware of perfection is being aware of the now moment. In the now moment is all that is and the now moment is eternal. That is perfection and that is all you need to be aware of. No past, no future, just now.

Your are making an assertion on neccessity, 'the now moment'. How do you define a need?
Is it something you cant live without?
Something you cant be happy without?

The past/future thing is really a game of semantics between what can be recalled or known to exist before now, and our ability to predict based off probability.

reply to post by juveous


Nothing existed before now.
Before now, where is it?
Nothing exists.
There are no 'things'.
This moment only.
Everything appears now.
The whole of existance appears now.

Now is the space that contains all things.
You are the now and all 'things' appear in you and as you.