How many Christians here take all things in the bible literally?

Originally posted by Josonic
You can't be a Christian and not take everything in the Bible literally. I say this as an ex-Christian, now atheist.

Of course, you can. What a silly notion! I would venture a guess that most Christian denominations do not take the Bible literally. They don't believe the Earth was made in 4004 BC on October 23rd at 10:00 in the morning. They do believe many Biblical stories are metaphors.

In the seminaries it gets even better. Did you know, for example, that in many seminaries the conclusion is that Jesus was a charaismatic guy with a message--and that's all? Your average theologian does not go around proclaiming this loudly, but religiously educated Christians often have this point of view. This is widely disseminated in many books written by Christians. Examples include "The Five Gospels," anything by Crossan, Meier's "A Marginal Jew," as well as many others. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that mainstream Christian religious thought today does NOT take the Bible literally.

Do you really think a careful study of the Bible does not bring out its many contradictions? One of the oldest seminary jokes is, "The New Testament, in which God is in a much better mood!" That says it all right there. I'm sure there are a fair number of fundamentalist Christians who do take the Bible literally, but I maintain they are outside the norm of serious Christian thought.

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
How can you be here now watching prophecy unfold before your very eyes and not believe?

Such as?

Listing them all would be a thread or more by itself.
The restoration of Israel. The great apostasy. The signs in the heavens. The increasing numbers of great earthquakes. The roaring of the seas(tidal waves, hurricanes etc... on the increase). The restoration of the roman empire with the treaty of Rome. The alignment of nations forming for the Gog-Magog war. The quickly approaching one world government. The assignment of numbers for people as identification as a precursor to the mark of the beast. The quickly approaching one world economic system. The worldwide persecution of Jews and Christians. The rise of general lawlessness and the loss of love for our fellow man. The preparations for the construction of the new temple in Jerusalem. The increasing number of wars and rumors of war. The famine and starvation spreading to more and more parts of the globe. The fact that the gospel is now preached in all languages and in all corners of the globe.

There are so many signs, that only the willfully blind cannot see them.

Deuteronomy 4:2
King James Version (KJV)
2Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

You either completely ignore this verse, which means you pick and choose what verses to believe based on what suits you, or you believe EVERYTHING the Bible says

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
I'd call myself a christian to an extent in that I do believe in God, and I do believe that there is more to this life of ours than simply dying and dissappearing into a black void of nothingness.

How does this lead you to think that your believes have anything to do with Christianity? Believing in God and/or an afterlife are the basis of nearly every religion

Originally posted by kellynap43
The bible is flawless, and is exactly what God had intended.

how do you know?

and please don't say 'for the bible tells me so'

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
How can you be here now watching prophecy unfold before your very eyes and not believe?

Such as?

Listing them all would be a thread or more by itself.
The restoration of Israel. The great apostasy. The signs in the heavens. The increasing numbers of great earthquakes. The roaring of the seas(tidal waves, hurricanes etc... on the increase). The restoration of the roman empire with the treaty of Rome. The alignment of nations forming for the Gog-Magog war. The quickly approaching one world government. The assignment of numbers for people as identification as a precursor to the mark of the beast. The quickly approaching one world economic system. The worldwide persecution of Jews and Christians. The rise of general lawlessness and the loss of love for our fellow man. The preparations for the construction of the new temple in Jerusalem. The increasing number of wars and rumors of war. The famine and starvation spreading to more and more parts of the globe. The fact that the gospel is now preached in all languages and in all corners of the globe.

There are so many signs, that only the willfully blind cannot see them.

Where is any of that prophesied and evidence that it's happened

Originally posted by schuyler
Did you know, for example, that in many seminaries the conclusion is that Jesus was a charaismatic guy with a message--and that's all?

As I've said before, you can't believe Jesus is not the Messiah if you are a Christian, if you follow some of the bible and don't believe Jesus is the Messiah that means you are Jewish, Mormon, or something completely else but NOT CHRISTIAN. For Christs sake its in the word you're using (Christian).

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by Josonic
You can't be a Christian and not take everything in the Bible literally. I say this as an ex-Christian, now atheist.

Of course, you can. What a silly notion! I would venture a guess that most Christian denominations do not take the Bible literally. They don't believe the Earth was made in 4004 BC on October 23rd at 10:00 in the morning. They do believe many Biblical stories are metaphors.

In the seminaries it gets even better. Did you know, for example, that in many seminaries the conclusion is that Jesus was a charaismatic guy with a message--and that's all? Your average theologian does not go around proclaiming this loudly, but religiously educated Christians often have this point of view. This is widely disseminated in many books written by Christians. Examples include "The Five Gospels," anything by Crossan, Meier's "A Marginal Jew," as well as many others. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that mainstream Christian religious thought today does NOT take the Bible literally.

Do you really think a careful study of the Bible does not bring out its many contradictions? One of the oldest seminary jokes is, "The New Testament, in which God is in a much better mood!" That says it all right there. I'm sure there are a fair number of fundamentalist Christians who do take the Bible literally, but I maintain they are outside the norm of serious Christian thought.

edit on 8/18/2011 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

Thanks for illustrating the great apostasy for me. I could not have done it better.

It seems to me you are live by the word of God, or you don't.

I find many Christians I meet to be Christian in name only. A lot of people tend to accept some ideas that appeal to them, that give them comfort and solace (the idea of an afterlife), a sense of direction (the idea of there being a higher purpose to life) and a sense of protection (a higher being looking out for them).

I don't think you can make use of the rights presented by the Bible without obeying the accompanying duties. And I don't just mean the duties most of us would disagree with today like putting women who have sex before marriage to death, but also duties like loving your fellow man and turning the other cheek appear exceptionally difficult to practice in daily life.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is little doubt in my mind these cherry-picking "Christians" (theistic agnostics I'd rather call them) are as much Sons of Darkness as atheists are, fighting on the wrong side in the coming eschatological war described by the Dead See Scrolls.

reply to post by bacci0909


Here is a non religious webiste to get you started. Need anymore, let me know.

wiki.answers.com...

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
How can you be here now watching prophecy unfold before your very eyes and not believe?

Such as?

Listing them all would be a thread or more by itself.
The restoration of Israel. The great apostasy. The signs in the heavens. The increasing numbers of great earthquakes. The roaring of the seas(tidal waves, hurricanes etc... on the increase). The restoration of the roman empire with the treaty of Rome. The alignment of nations forming for the Gog-Magog war. The quickly approaching one world government. The assignment of numbers for people as identification as a precursor to the mark of the beast. The quickly approaching one world economic system. The worldwide persecution of Jews and Christians. The rise of general lawlessness and the loss of love for our fellow man. The preparations for the construction of the new temple in Jerusalem. The increasing number of wars and rumors of war. The famine and starvation spreading to more and more parts of the globe. The fact that the gospel is now preached in all languages and in all corners of the globe.

There are so many signs, that only the willfully blind cannot see them.

Where is any of that prophesied and evidence that it's happened

Have you read the Bible at all? If you only want to look in one spot, try Matthew 24. You will find most of what I listed right there. As for evidence that they have happened/are happening??? Are you serious? Where was Israel before 1948? Look at my post above this one for evidence of the apostasy. The wars? how can you miss them? The rumors of war? Did you miss the point of the article that started this conversation? Wake up.

Has anybody else here read the entire bible?

reply to post by christsdisciple

I have done so, systematically, a couple of times.
I'm sure I'm not unique. Many faithful people have done it.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Do you understand it?

reply to post by christsdisciple

I like to think that I understand most of it.
I even believe that I've got some understanding of Revelation, which may be the first sign of madness. I did a systematic series of threads on the book.

Originally posted by Symer
I don't think you can make use of the rights presented by the Bible without obeying the accompanying duties. And I don't just mean the duties most of us would disagree with today like putting women who have sex before marriage to death, but also duties like loving your fellow man and turning the other cheek appear exceptionally difficult to practice in daily life.

So let's touch on the part of the bible you claim most of us would disagree with. "Putting woman who have sex before marriage to death" or this part of the bible right here:

If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

bible.cc...

Putting homosexuals to death because they have committed such an act. We can't have our cake and eat it to, so what about this? What about supporting a fellow Christian who owns a slave? The bible does not condone slavery as far as I can see it, so Christians who support slavery, they are fellow Christians to you?

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776

Originally posted by Josonic

Originally posted by sonofliberty1776
How can you be here now watching prophecy unfold before your very eyes and not believe?

Such as?

Listing them all would be a thread or more by itself.
The restoration of Israel. The great apostasy. The signs in the heavens. The increasing numbers of great earthquakes. The roaring of the seas(tidal waves, hurricanes etc... on the increase). The restoration of the roman empire with the treaty of Rome. The alignment of nations forming for the Gog-Magog war. The quickly approaching one world government. The assignment of numbers for people as identification as a precursor to the mark of the beast. The quickly approaching one world economic system. The worldwide persecution of Jews and Christians. The rise of general lawlessness and the loss of love for our fellow man. The preparations for the construction of the new temple in Jerusalem. The increasing number of wars and rumors of war. The famine and starvation spreading to more and more parts of the globe. The fact that the gospel is now preached in all languages and in all corners of the globe.

There are so many signs, that only the willfully blind cannot see them.

Where is any of that prophesied and evidence that it's happened

Have you read the Bible at all? If you only want to look in one spot, try Matthew 24. You will find most of what I listed right there. As for evidence that they have happened/are happening??? Are you serious? Where was Israel before 1948? Look at my post above this one for evidence of the apostasy. The wars? how can you miss them? The rumors of war? Did you miss the point of the article that started this conversation? Wake up.

Yes I've read the Bible quite extensively. I'm asking you to show me what exactly is prophesied and how it's happened. I would read the entire chapter that you have suggested if the entire chapter were a prophecy. It's not.

I have been a Christian since I was 5 years old. I take the Bible literally and believe every word. I believe that different parts of his word have specific meaning for different people's lives in application, but means the same for everyone. It is just different timing as to when God reveals something to you that you need to hear at a particular moment.

I do NOT believe in evolution. I ONLY believe in Creationism. There are way too many instances on this planet that are far too complex for evolution to answer. Creation is the only way to answer the intricacy of the human brain or procreation or nature and animals and how they interact, and how we exhale CO2 and the plants breathe in the CO2 and expel O2 that we breathe. How some mammals live in the sea and can hold their breath for long periods of time, but still breathes air. And how all these mammals coexist with humans at the same time and yet you do not see any other species turning into a human.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Symer
I don't think you can make use of the rights presented by the Bible without obeying the accompanying duties. And I don't just mean the duties most of us would disagree with today like putting women who have sex before marriage to death, but also duties like loving your fellow man and turning the other cheek appear exceptionally difficult to practice in daily life.

So let's touch on the part of the bible you claim most of us would disagree with. "Putting woman who have sex before marriage to death" or this part of the bible right here:

If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense.

bible.cc...

Putting homosexuals to death because they have committed such an act. We can't have our cake and eat it to, so what about this? What about supporting a fellow Christian who owns a slave? The bible does not condone slavery as far as I can see it, so Christians who support slavery, they are fellow Christians to you?

Jesus gave us his stance on the death penalty. Regarding slavery, it was a totally different institution then than what it is now. Both types of slavery are different from what was practiced in the 1500-1800s. Do you understand that it was Christ and his church that actually worked and still works to end slavery?

Originally posted by Josonic

Yes I've read the Bible quite extensively. I'm asking you to show me what exactly is prophesied and how it's happened. I would read the entire chapter that you have suggested if the entire chapter were a prophecy. It's not.

It isn't??? Matthew 24? I thought you read the bible? Are you sure you have read the bible?

Matthew 24

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.