It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Challenges to the theory surrounding the Black Death

page: 1
5
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:08 PM
link   
I found this to be quite interesting. It seems that one researcher is noticing inconsistencies in the historical accounts of the Black Death. His research is starting to lead toward:

1) people and not rats were possibly responsible for the spread of the disease
2) it might not have been the bubonic plague at all




In the course of his book research, Sloane, who handles research grants for the organization English Heritage, uncovered clues that cast doubt on certain aspects of this account. First, using previously untapped archival sources, he adjusted the timeline of the plague’s sojourn in London in 1348 and 1349. “The evidence shows the plague appeared in November and reached its height in April,” he explained, “so it spread right through the cold winter months when rats and fleas should not be so active.” If vermin played a significant role, he theorized, plague cases would have petered out, not snowballed, when temperatures began to fall.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Source: Can We Stop Blaming Rats for the Black Death?

It's interesting that Sloane is poking a stick at the answers provided by the report that supposedly "settles" the debate and is supposedly the official last word. You'll find a link to that report in the article.

Is it possible that we don't know enough about this one event that was just a few hundred years ago, and if so then how much could our theories of dinosaur extinction or even how the pyramids were built be accurate enough to call them solved?
edit on 18-8-2011 by ZeddicusZulZorander because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:11 PM
link   
I think we have been fed distractions to keep the TRUTH away from us. But its cool if TRUTH wants to be heard it WILL come to be HEARD... This Black death seems more insect spread but im not sure..



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:15 PM
link   
We know that virus's can transform, could it be possible that it started as the plague and then mutated into a human to human transmission virus?



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:17 PM
link   
reply to post by DAZ21
 


Thats exaclty what happened with the black death. The transmission was only flea to human and the it made the human to human jump.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:19 PM
link   
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13
 


Yeah it was the fleas that fed on the rats which of course before the sanitation we have today ran rampant. Im sure after the fleas started it they didn't keep the plague alive, but im sure the poor and less sanitary, in close quarters with body lice sure helped that.....not to mention, airborn (through sputum and blood while coughing) were contributors.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:22 PM
link   
reply to post by topherman420
 


Thank you for clarifying this for me.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:24 PM
link   
Very interesting article, raises some good questions. However, I find their theory that rat and flea activity would decrease during the winter months somewhat questionable. Would it not make sense that rats would find shelter in warm (or relatively warm) homes during the winter? That alone would help substantiate the vermin theory, I think.

I'm not ready to say either idea is right or wrong, because we just don't know enough to really say for sure. But...if we stop blaming rats for the plague, then we won't be able to praise cats for helping to end it!



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:32 PM
link   
Sure rats and fleas won't be as active in the winter months...outside. But of course they would try to find warmer places to huddle, as do we humans...and well, humans and rats huddled close in shelters...of course the virus would spread like, well, a plague...

Not?



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:34 PM
link   
Gotta be a full Moon... so many crazy posts. What time of the year has to do with fleas and rats who prefer indoors environment anyway???? So, the truth was suppressed by whom, Obama? Russians? And what was it, another alien invasion?

Moderators, please ban me from the site if you really think I shouldn't have said the above. I don't want ATS become a cheap thrill site.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:38 PM
link   
and they did'nt take dogs and cats in to consideration, they would had been swarming with fleas



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:59 PM
link   
With all said. I really like this quote

"Is it possible that we don't know enough about this one event that was just a few hundred years ago, and if so then how much could our theories of dinosaur extinction or even how the pyramids were built be accurate enough to call them solved?"

Thats the kinda stuff you can open peoples eyes with.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:56 PM
link   
I've never given it any thought before, but, why just Rat fleas? Why not Dog, Cat, Horse, Cow etc?

I don't believe in a cover up but I do think that a lot of established Historians and Archaeologists don't want to be the first with a new theory as they are scared of being shot down and ridiculed by their peers.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:46 PM
link   
For me the issue is not so much of a cover up, but rather a jump to "this is how it went down" without knowing or considering different angles and facts. These are all things that lead paranoid minds into thinking cover up in the first place.

An example might be that even here people are jumping (excuse the pun) to fleas and rats as the cause. Not to pick on anyone, but this is a very definitive statement:


Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by DAZ21
 


Thats exaclty what happened with the black death. The transmission was only flea to human and the it made the human to human jump.


It could have been some other pandemic is what the author of the article seems to be leaning towards and while this matter is not a "cover up" per se...it could be a leap to a conclusion based off limited knowledge. There have been other theories that the Black Death was an Ebola like plague that spread much faster and the incubation period being much longer than other confirmed bubonic plagues. There's even some data that demonstrates the Black Death has made roughly 10% of Europeans more resistant to HIV for example.

It's even possible it was multiple pandemics involved.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 06:37 PM
link   
reply to post by ZeddicusZulZorander
 


sloane isn't the only researcher who has found inconsistencies in the "plague was spread by rats'' hypothesis

New-Light-on-the-Black-Death-The-Cosmic-Connection

very informative article [and comments too]



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 06:43 PM
link   
bubonic plague is caused by bacteria, not a virus.

also remember that contemporary accounts of the black death by people of the day describe a disease that is similar but not quite like bubonic plague.

for instance, they describe in literature and illustrations that black raised lumps were all over the body, while the symptoms for bubonic plague are buboes in the lymph nodes only.

that itself is enough to call into question the bubonic plague theory imo.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 07:02 PM
link   
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


Facinating. Thanks for the link. I liked this excerpt:




At its most basic, the problem is with those rats and fleas. For the conventional wisdom to work there have to be hosts of infected rats and they have to be moving at alarming speed - you would almost have to imagine infected rats scuttling every onward (mostly northward) delivering, as they died, loads of infected fleas. The snags with this scenario are legion. For example, there are no descriptions of dead rats lying everywhere (this is explained by suggesting that either the rats were indoors, or people were so used to dead rats that they were not worth mentioning; though if they were indoors how did they travel so fast?) It did not seem to matter whether you were a rural shepherd or cleric or a town dweller, both were infected. Yet strangely with this very infectious disease some cities across Europe were spared. Moreover, these rats must have been happy to move to cool northern areas even though bubonic plague is a disease that requires relatively warm temperatures. Then, when there are water barriers, these rats board ships to keep the momentum going

Source Link



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 07:04 PM
link   
My first thought is biological warfare.

A kingdom with too many people using a virus or bacteria to kill their undesirables. Then just blame it on nature.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 07:17 PM
link   
...i never bought the flea/rat theory... those people lived incredibly nasty, especially in cities... even the high-flaluting had their maids toss the contents of "poop-pots" out onto the street...

...imo, the black plague was caused by fecal spores... there was a thread on here recently about the fastest thing on Earth - it was spores - which also explains how the plague spread so fast...



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 06:38 AM
link   
Im not sure why its needed to complicate the matter. Its interesting none the less but I trust the more accepted theory. Black rats were introduced from Asia by ship, carrying with them infected fleas. The sanitary conditions in Europe along with lack of science was like the perfect womb for this virus....crowded and dirty. Heck, what about those guys flogging themselves making pilgrimages thinking they were immune to the disease (and most likely flinging their infected blood everywhere. Actually the flagellants increased during the black plague ( Italy for example), and people who saw them along their pilgrimage would even soak up their blood. Europe was it man, it was the bees knees for a plague to happen and a party it had indeed.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:37 AM
link   

Originally posted by Wertdagf
My first thought is biological warfare.

A kingdom with too many people using a virus or bacteria to kill their undesirables. Then just blame it on nature.
That makes no sense. Not only were countries far from overcrowded but the decimated peasant population nearly led to social revolution. Labour shortage meant that previously feaudal peasants could actually haggle their wages and move to where work was, something that was impossible before the Black Death. And that's completely ignoring the fact that germ theory was not atound until over half a millennia after the event in question.



new topics

top topics



 
5
<<   2 >>

log in

join