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Juveniles Tried As Adults - Right or Wrong ?

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posted on Aug, 24 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
Yeah, I understand that some of these Kids are repeat offenders, but they're still kids... do they really understand the consiquences of thier actions.... do they deserve to be punished as an adult ?



In my experience, yeah they understand the consequences, but think that they can "get away with it" because they are kids. They even brag about it (you can't do anything to me, I'm a minor). I don't think an 8 or 9 year old is mentally capable of grasping the full consequences of their actions, but a 13 or 15 year old? Absolutely. I think if they are "adult" enough to commit murders, rapes, burglaries, etc, then they are "adult" enough to suffer the standard punishment.

The angriest I ever got was about 6 years ago there were some kids who were going around our neighborhood pouring gasoline on cars and setting them on fire. The dog started barking so I went out to see why she was upset, and lo and behold a 14 year old was in the process of pouring gasoline on my car. I grabbed his shirt and he had the nerve to say "You can't touch me, I'm just a kid. Whatcha gonna do now ." I pulled out a .38 and told him EXACTLY what I was gonna do if I ever saw him around my house at 2 a.m. again. I think he believed me cus he ran




posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


I believe that juveniles who commit violent crimes should be tried as adults. I have been researching about what the government is doing to reduce and eliminate gang violence as a result of a traumatic and horrific experience that my family had to deal with.

In Feb. of 2008, my mother, a 60 year old, petite woman was standing outside of her apartment waiting for my dad to pick up her up when suddenly, she was attacked by 2 African American male gang members. Their ages, 16 and 17 year olds. My mother was stabbed in the face with a knife and beaten violently even after falling to the ground. She only weighs 110 pounds and those two males were around 5'10" to 6' tall and according to my mother, they took her purse but continued to beat her incessantly until she was knocked unsconscious. Witnesses came out and called the police but by then the two gang members had done enough damage, causing blood to gush out of her head and onto the concrete ground.

It took my mother over 4 months to heal and she could not walk for the first initial three months because her chest, shoulder and hip bones were fractured along with contusions. It was so sad and devastating see her in such a critical condition. She could have died. They actually did leave her for dead. Do they not have any decency? To attack and beat an innocent victim is bad enough, but when two healthy and strong individuals attack a feeble old lady-- that is cowardice. Can't they pick on someone their own size? Gang members are hypocrites. They don't even know why they are doing whatever they are doing. The ring leader stands to benefit while these juvenile delinquents and other gang members are just guinea pigs who do whatver they are told to do without any respect for themselves.

The LAPD detectives informed my mother that the two men were affiliated with a Los Angeles gang, not sure what kind, but as part of their gang activity, they attack random victims on the street and leave them for dead. Not sure if they were doing it as part of a gang initiation.
The saddest part is that only one of the gang members was caught. The other one ran off with my mother's purse and was never found. I last heard that the juvenile delinquent who was caught was in custody but I am not sure if he will be tried as an adult. It is ultimately up to the prosecutor.

Anyone who is capable of destroying the dignity and life of another human should NOT be given just a slap on the wrist and sent back out into society to commit more atrocious crimes. The crimes committed by those holdlums were violent and they SHOULD be tried as adults. The juvenile system should only be applied to misdemeanors, not violent and serious crimes. The juvenile correctional system only works on indivudals who are willing to change and are remorseful for what they've done. Many juvenile delinquents are not reversible. They are uncapable of becoming a good citizen.

I don't want to hear excuses about how they come from poverty, etc. etc... I grew up poor and had a difficult life but I studied and worked hard. I ended up geting a scholarship to a top university. My parents worked hard as well. I respect my elders and the laws of society. I treat everyone with respect. So people's reasons for joining gangs should not be justified by poor sob stories. Life is tough. No one's life is perfect. Everyone struggles in some facet of their life. There is absolutely no excuse. If you commit a crime, it is by your own volition. The very thing that separates us from animals is our ability to choose and make decisions for ourselves. Unless one is in duress or defending oneself because of some imminent danger, one should never harm others.

Thus, as aforementioned, I believe that juvenile delinquents that commit violent or serious crimes should be tried as adults.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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a sociopath of the killing kind (also see political leaders and CEO'S and such) the type that likes to torture and/or kill starts at an early age with no compassion to the feeling of others because they cannot feel empathy . A lot of these crimes by kids are being done by a sociopath that cannot be rehabilitated in any form. These kids have no compassion to anyone's feelings and feed off pain of others (and like a pedophile) cannot and will never get better. Either put them down or lock them up for life. Its that simple. Why wait till they grow up and become serial killers on the loose? Wake up human race! Remember even a baby rattle snake can kill you with its bite.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 



It's nice to see members laying the blame right where it belongs, on the parents.


Au contraire. Although I am not a parent, as I like to remind those who decry my advice, I was after all, a child once. Which believe it or not, gives me some insight into child rearing. I knew early in my life I wanted no children. As I try to put it succinctly, children are a hell of a lot of work and dam little reward.

Actually, even in the really "old days" when parents could apply corporal punishment, parents had a lot more help then than they do today. Neighbors did look out for children not their own. And strangers might offer admonishment to children engaged in boisterous conduct.

POINT? Parents can only do so much. They cannot be everywhere at once. Not all parents are created equal. Parents cannot always make the right decision. From my point of view parenting is a very difficult job no one is born knowing, and we as a society need to find more ways to facilitate child rearing in meaningful ways.



Now, trying young offenders as adults? If they are repeat offenders as was noted above, go right ahead. Detention centers are just places for offenders to network. Kids actually come out worse than they went in.


I see at least 3 issues in this paragraph. We did not always have juvenile laws. Children caught in crimes were often dealt with ad hoc. In some communities the outcome would be vastly different from the outcome for a similar offense in a different community. By the early 20th century, Freud was beginning to gain acceptance for his description of the human psyche. What makes us tick. By the 1920s a movement was sweeping across America for more rational - say humane - treatment of young offenders.

By the 1960s-1970s every state had juvenile laws. Usually the laws applied to all persons under the age of 18. The Federal system does not have a juvenile law but it does treat criminal offenders differently if they are under 26 years 6 months of age when the offense was committed. The Youth Offender Act.

One major gain of these laws was to seal the juvenile's record so that his adult potential would not be harmed dreadfully as a criminal record does in the case of an adult. Another was to use social and psychological counseling more than incarceration. I am satisfied this approach has benefitted more than it has harmed although problems with young people still exist. Too much time, not enough to do. Irresistible peer pressure. And boundless curiosity. A willingness to try new things. It is after all, the explosion of knowledge young people are feeling.

Unfortunately we have more problems to solve that we have money to solve them with. I feel sure the "networking" rightfully complained of could be reduced if we had larger facilities - less crowding - and more staffing. But then I'm sure a lot of what is wrong with our world would show better outcomes if we did a better job of it. Which is to say, pay more.

Here in Jacksonville the evening news carried a story saying it cost $30,000-$120,000 per year per homeless person, counting all the court and hospital time many of them incur or are part of. The idea is to furnish homeless people a home. That can be done for a cost between $15,000 and $20,000 a year. If the numbers are right, it would be the cheapest AND BEST way out of a real dilemma.



The whole system is flawed, from how you can raise your kids to putting kids in jail for having some pot. They come out with friends that will take them to the wonderful world of B&E's. From there escalation is inevitable.


In 1938 J Edgar Hoover of the FBI declared a War on Crime! Sort of an early neighborhood watch program. Sign up, put a sticker on your front door and a metal shield on your car. Call the fuzz when you saw anything amiss. Then came the War on Poverty. Lend a helping hand to the disadvantaged. Affirmative action. Section 8. Then we launched the war of all wars! The War on Drugs. President Nixon, 1969. So far, we are batting 0 out of 3 on Wars. I don’t know how much longer our society will continue to indulge this extravagance of imposing one mans morality on another man, but surely fighting all those wars and losing all of them all the time is getting to be so expensive we will be forced to re-look it.

Let’s hope the AGENT FOR CHANGE will be elected November 4 and there will be a new day aborning!



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 08:11 AM
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A Panhandle woman told deputies her 16-year-old daughter bit her when she tried to take the girl's cell phone away.

above breaking news story (link at bottom)

Its stuff like this that blows my mind. Something is very crazy with kids now-a-days. You see tots running around all times of night "out of control", no authority or boundries.

Kids want to be grow up now! And if you get in their way..they say, I'll kill ya!

Young people need to have the book throw at 'em when they do crimes as parents can't seem to do anything without breaking the law themselves. At least this mother in the story here called the cops and it seems that maybe something will be done.

Society is going down a slippery slope with current trends. Major changes in the way Young offenders are handled at an early age is the only way to head offf a future of sociopathic kids that "always get their way'', we need to throw the book at kids (take their phones away) and get back to basics (old school) to head -off a bunch of future trouble.

We need tough laws agaist young volient offenders. To give a message to their peers.




A deputy found the woman with two sets of teeth marks on the top of her hand, both with dried blood.



link/source : www.local6.com...



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by RUFFREADY
 



Society is going down a slippery slope with current trends. Major changes in the way Young offenders are handled at an early age is the only way to head off a future of sociopathic kids that "always get their way''


So what’s new? It seems every generation since time immemorial has made the same accusation against the next generation. I cannot give you chapter and verse but I believe it is true that there was NO juvenile delinquency amongst the ancient Israelites! Why would I say that? Because in the old days the punishment for "an unruly child" was stoning (to death) at the city gates. See Deuteronomy.



We need to throw the book at kids (take their phones away) and get back to basics (old school) to head -off a bunch of future trouble. We need tough laws against young violent offenders. To give a message to their peers.


If by “throwing the book at kids” you mean your stiffest penalty is to take away their cell phone, then I can’t quarrel with that. As I offered to help my 13 year old grand-niece with her homework, I was astounded to discover I’m NOT smarter than a 5th grader! Another soon to be 18 years old grand-niece is beginning college here in Jax at UNF. University of North Florida. She wants to be a CSI - crime scene investigator. I suppose that was a wise choice as CRIME is definitely a growth industry in the world.

Over this past weekend she wanted to have her belly-button pierced! Ugh! We the adults in her life said NO but by this Labor Day she will have turned 18 and can do it on her own.

I do not want to see young people treated as their elders. After all they do not have the LIVING EXPERIENCE that older people have. They should not be held to the same standards of conduct as adults. And for sure, juvenile records ought to be sealed which gives any wrong-doing juvenile ONE more chance to go straight!

[edit on 6/30/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Sep, 24 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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I think that a majority of you who have responded need to do better research. So many of you seemed ignorant on this subject yet made these incredible claims. If you are going to make these claims then you need to have scientific research to back it. If you are going to say adolescents should be tried as adults, have the resources to back it.
Based on research I do not think that adolescents should be tried as adults. However, I do not think they should be excused from their crime. According to the research done by Laurence Steinberg and Elizabeth S. Scott, adolescence should not be excused but mitigation should be implemented. "Mitigation places the culpability of a guilty actor somewhere on a continuum of criminal culpability and, by extension, a continuum of punishment." This is used for the mentally ill whose decision making is distorted.

Adolescents have the same problem; their prefrontal cortex has yet to fully develop while their amygdala has developed. Amygdala controls their emotions while the prefrontal cortex houses the planning, decision making, reasoning, and self control. Thus, based on the scientific studies done on the brain adolescence don’t have the developed capacity to make reasonable decisions based on their intense emotions.
Someone earlier said that adolescents saw this as a game, which is due to the fact that they can't see the long term affects of their actions thus are making decisions based on heightened emotions. To them this is all about having fun, adolescents are egocentric.

I do not believe that these adolescents should be excused from their crimes, but they should not be held to the same liability of fully functioning adults. The sentencing of an adolescent should always be dependent on their cognitive state. An adolescent should not have the same sentence as adult for the same crime, because their brain is not fully developed. This does not mean that they shouldn't be held responsible. They should have adequate sentencing, but should not be placed in adult facilities. Someone earlier discussed the juvenile facility he or she was in and how it did not rehabilitate. While it is a reality that some facilities don't live up to this, it is a necessary step in helping these adolescent criminals understand their crimes and learn from them. So, we should be focusing on creating better facilities for adolescents rather than just throwing them in adult court.

Everything stated is from research based sources, such as:
(not in correct citation)
A book Adolescence by John W. Santrock
An article The Biology of Risk Taking by Lisa F. Price
An article What Makes Teens Tick by Claudia Wallis
An article Should Adolescents Who Commit Serious Offenses Be Tried and Convicted as Adults? the yes side is written by Daniel P. Mears and the no side by Laurence Steinberg and Elizabeth Scott.

So, if you think I am writing nonsense with absolutely no backing please read some type of research, either what’s listed here or found on your own. I do not believe that you have to agree with my side, but no matter what side you agree with please show some type of research based knowledge when making comments about my statements.
When we jump to conclusions we end up hurting people, in this case children. Don't let your ignorance punish thousands of children.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


The Federal Government does not have a Juvenile Justice code. Instead, it treats all persons under 26 years, six month, as a YOUTHFUL offender. This distinction based on age is used not only in pretrial investigation, but also in any post trial sentencing and in determining to which institution youthful prisoners are assigned. This is not new. It has been used at least since the 1970s. I do not know how the outcomes compare to results before the adoption of the Youthful Offender Act. There are good reasons to treat young people differently than older people in the punishment of crimes. I hold to the belief - without proof - that 60%-70% of first time juvenile offenders DO NOT repeat. If that number is even is close to being correct, then it proves to me the value of the less harsh juvenile treatment concept.

Human beings are TOO valuable a resource to casually throw away.



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 07:44 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 07:53 AM
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post removed for serious violation of ATS Terms & Conditions



posted on Sep, 25 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


Totally right.

If it stops jumped up little Chavs mouthing off, thinking they're 'untouchable',then great.
This might make them think twice about committing offences because they'll get a lesser punishment in one of these juvenile holiday camps.

Better again would be to remove all this State,P.C,Sue everyone,all talk mentality and let the victims at them and 'encourage them' not to re-offend... in the good old fashioned way.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Indy
 

you kno i wonder why you are so bitter...you breathe fire when you type your comments...of course a 12 year old knows the difference between murder and stealing a cookie from moms jar. but when you prosecute the kid as an adult, there will be no point of juvenile correctional facilitiies. there are many kids who ran away from their parents one night and had some old n' crusty person forcing them to sex. for the safety of the kids, the detention center is the best choice but putting them in adult jail does them no good.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by Indy
 

you kno i wonder why you are so bitter...you breathe fire when you type your comments...of course a 12 year old knows the difference between murder and stealing a cookie from moms jar. but when you prosecute the kid as an adult, there will be no point of juvenile correctional facilitiies. there are many kids who ran away from their parents one night and had some old n' crusty person forcing them to sex. for the safety of the kids, the detention center is the best choice but putting them in adult jail does them no good.



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


The crimes you are referencing to are not activities typical of 12 yr olds. What do you suggest? Ground them to their rooms?

Most of the time these juvies are sent to juvinile jails until they hit 18, then transfered to adult prisons.

If you got some kid acting like an adult doing adult crimes, then perhaps that acting adult wishes to be treated as an adult and thus should definately be treated as an adult when it comes time to answer for the adult crime.

Its a sad situation anyway to be seeing young kids like that doing such things as murder. One has to wonder what kind of environment that kid is growing up in, and where are the parents intervention in that kids life to keep them on the right path.


Cheers!!!!



posted on Jan, 11 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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Again, another blast from the past rearing its ugly head. Soon they'll be sending 12 year olds to the gallows. This ugly age of primitive ancient serfdom disappeared, and we are supposed to be civilized. Norway, with close to a zero percent murder rate shows a system with equality and strong human rights, without trauma and homeless people, divided and conquered by the cartel, shows the link between fair social justice and crime. These are your kids. Wake up. Any body of government doing this should be tossed ASAP.




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