Meet the REAL Looters: "Merkel and Sarkozy Want £13 billion a year from UK taxpayers to save Euro, page 3
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 27 times


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 10:22 AM by JennaDarling
Originally posted by wcitizen
Originally posted by JennaDarling
you're all worried about money, a ficticious item made up by banks.

Who is the programmed drone now?

Money money money. it only has value if you give it value.


Let the entire monitary system collapse, seriously.


What you goan do, cry because you have no currency? We DONT NEED it, THEY DO, WE DONT.

They use it to control you, but we can get by without it, just stop being greedy and wanting to have something somebody else hasnt or to be bigger better than everybody else.

The problem isnt the money system it is HUMANITY.

What is so bad with living in a world of equals? Ever Watch Star Trek? Thats a clue.

edit on 18-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


What do you buy your food with, grains of sand?

How do you keep a roof over your head? With bottles of sea water?

The system is such that people now are dependent on money for their basic needs. The plan is now to remove that money from them and make them totally dependent on the government for survival. They you'll really see them put the boot in.


Again Star Trek was a clue.

Go watch a few.

And yes its fiction, but it was based on an ideology, just as Europe is.

Sure it is a big leap for a lot (especially Americans and Brits) to grasp the concept of no ownership and working as a whole for the betterment of humanity.

Sure it is a future dream, but why not aim for that, it has been demonstrated for millenia that the monetry system and the concept of ownership does not work and only causes more problems than it solves.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 10:30 AM by thoughtsfull
reply to post by wcitizen



I agree, and in fact it's just as important to get ourselves out of the 'specially satanic relationship' with US.


The Commonwealth contains some of the worlds poorest nations and by helping them elevate their standard of living, and become good trading partners we help ourselves creating a need for our services (not the financial kind either), and we don't even have to steal their resources to do that.

Maybe we won't have the latest shiny toys on the battlefield, but then again would there be the need? and I would rather solid decent relations with countries based on mutual respect and friendship that last (like the one with Portugal) than ones where you think your in one of Shakespeares plays waiting for the stab in the back.

I know it is dizzy daisy to hope we can make that kind of change.. but at least there is some hope..


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 11:35 AM by goldentorch
I suppose this post points to the fact that they are indeed all thieves and looters, I'm putting up two quotes one anti EU and one pro EU, both though have the same theme, the unaccountability of the crooks in charge. In the pro thread it even says you cannot chase down every payment of every allowance?

While the UK and other Member States are struggling, in their battle with the European Parliament, to restrict the increase in the 2011 EU Budget to 2.91 percent, which represents a 3.5 billion euro increase from the 2010 budget -amounting 123 billion euros, the European Court of Auditors for the 16th year in a row has not signed the EU accounts. On 9 November the European Court of Auditors published its report on the implementation of the 2009 EU Budget. The Court has issued an unqualified opinion on the reliability of the 2009 EU accounts. According to the Court “The accounts of the European Union give a fair presentation of the financial position and the results of operations and cash flows.” Nevertheless, “payments from the budget continue to be materially affected by error, except in two areas of expenditure - Economic and financial affairs and Administrative expenditure.” The Court gave unqualified opinions on revenue and on commitments and concluded that there was an improvement in the management of the budget. However, once again, the court has refused to sign off on how the money from the EU's 2009 budget had been spent. As regards the legality and regularity of the transactions underlying the accounts, the Court concluded that the level of irregularity is still too high.


source

Given that the accounts of the EU have not been signed off by the auditors for 15 years running, why do the Government keep giving more and more money to the EU? Surely if the Government are serious about reform of the EU budget, they should say that the EU will not get a penny more from the British Government until it gets its accounts properly audited.



Firstly, the European Union budget is complicated. Most of the money gets transferred from the European Commission to bodies in the Member States at national or regional level, and these bodies spend the cash. Tracing every last Euro down to every last farmer or training project is a very hard task. And don’t assume this is just something those evil ones across the Channel do – the UK experience is not good on this either. Secondly, no equivalent budgetary sign off exists in the UK, so it’s not as if the UK is perfect and Brussels is bad. Quoting the Select Committee on European Union Fiftieth Report on the matter: 149. Sir John Bourn, Comptroller and Auditor General at the UK’s National Audit Office told us that, were he required to issue a single Statement of Assurance on the UK Government’s accounts in the same way as the Court of Auditors does for Europe’s accounts, he, like the Court, would be unable to do so (Q 192). This is because last year he issued a qualified opinion on 13 of the 500 accounts of the British Government which he audits. In short, is the EU budget perfect? No. Is any national government any better? No, probably not, and at least the UK’s is not.


source

Without oversight and accountability surely they're all just blowing it out of their ear and no national or supranational political entities will ever work sans severe and ethical oversight of those with their hands in the cookie jar.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 11:41 AM by JennaDarling
Originally posted by Freeborn
Personally I'd prefer we left the EU.

As has been touched on the referendum in 1975 was for continued membership of the EEC which was a free trade association.
Approximately 69% voted in favour.
Since then every single Prime Minister and the Monarch have been party to the gradual erostion of British sovereignty and it's illegal transfer to the EU.
The EEC has transformed from a free trade organisation into a dictatorial and inherently corrupt legislative body whose interests tend to be at odds with those of the British electorate.

Why should the UK pay to prop up a currency it doesn't belong to and get's no benefit from?

We in the UK should demand a referendum on continued membership of the EU.

If the majority vote for continued membership then we should stop sitting on the fence, adopt the Euro and take a more active and positive part in EU matters and strive to change it into the sort of organisation it should be.


So you no longer want to be part of the EEA? You expect that to solve your problems?

If you still think you are going to easily export to Europe, think it through.
If you still think that is going to solve your immegration problem, think again.
If you still think that is going to solve your mismanaged treasury budget, think again.
If you still think that is going to solve your riots, think again.

But sure, lets play, Please leave europe COMPLETELY at ALL LEVELS.

All those grants from Europe, GONE
All that access to Galellio GPS, GONE
All that access to ESA, GONE
All that exporting to Europe, tarrif Free, GONE
All that freedom of movement, GONE
All that cheap labour doing the jobs you dont want to do, GONE
All that chance to easily buy your properties in Spain, GONE
All those human rights cases the Eeropean court upheld against the UK, GONE

Enjoy your queueing at airports Non-EU line for hours while you enter a country.


I am sure there is even more painful prices to pay for leaving Europe fully, those are just some I picked from the top of my head.

edit on 18-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 11:51 AM by wcitizen
Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by wcitizen



I agree, and in fact it's just as important to get ourselves out of the 'specially satanic relationship' with US.


The Commonwealth contains some of the worlds poorest nations and by helping them elevate their standard of living, and become good trading partners we help ourselves creating a need for our services (not the financial kind either), and we don't even have to steal their resources to do that.

Maybe we won't have the latest shiny toys on the battlefield, but then again would there be the need? and I would rather solid decent relations with countries based on mutual respect and friendship that last (like the one with Portugal) than ones where you think your in one of Shakespeares plays waiting for the stab in the back.

I know it is dizzy daisy to hope we can make that kind of change.. but at least there is some hope..


If you dig a little deeper you will see that it is the IMF, the UN and the WTO and, of course the US and the EU banksters and coporate mafia which are KEEPING those nations poor.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 11:53 AM by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling


I am a white, heterosexual, working class male from North East England.....the only way the EU in it's current manifestation affects me is with it's draconian and repressive dictates, very little of what you mention remotely interests or impacts positively on my life at all.

Westminster is only marginally better.

There are no easy solutions to this country's problems, however, the EU is compounding the UK's problems.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 11:58 AM by JennaDarling
Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling


I am a white, heterosexual, working class male from North East England.....the only way the EU in it's current manifestation affects me is with it's draconian and repressive dictates, very little of what you mention remotely interests or impacts positively on my life at all.

Westminster is only marginally better.

There are no easy solutions to this country's problems, however, the EU is compounding the UK's problems.


No skin of my back, leave please.

I am sure thousands and thousands of businsesses in the UK that survived because they had access to the EEA for business.

Not only will those businesses find it hard, or even disppear, so will the work force that was employed by them.

The country will have to pay for their benefits, and those properties will just be stuck onto the market, lowering prices everywhere yet again due to the empty business properties, government will vest some for redevelopment, that again costs the tax payer, and they will sit there empty until a big Tescos or Adsa opens nearby.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:13 PM by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling


You know nothing of the realities of life where I live yet that doesn't stop you moralising and insisting that you know what is best for me, my neighbours, local communities etc.

That is typical of the pro-European arrogance which has alienated so many British people.



reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:18 PM by JennaDarling
Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by JennaDarling


You know nothing of the realities of life where I live yet that doesn't stop you moralising and insisting that you know what is best for me, my neighbours, local communities etc.

That is typical of the pro-European arrogance which has alienated so many British people.


I've seen streets upon streets in the UK where they are just a wasteland of crappy shops and what not, overdue for revelopment but the Governement has NO MONEY to redevelop it, A Big tescos is planned to be built, and that is the only thing that will save those streets.

I have seen it with my own two eyes in the UK as recently as 2 months ago, while not every street is the same, but there sure is a lot of those areas long overdue for redvelopment but the government has NO MONEY.

British people don't want to pay taxes, they pay some of the LOWEST taxes in EUROPE! But no they still biatch and moan about it!

Being Pro-European or Pro-regional (it is the only feasable way to beat America) is not automatically mean somebody is arrogant. I can say the same for Anti-European in that case. I just see many benefits from it and yes they do cost. Wher else does governmetn get money from to pay for stuff? Redevelopment, Investments, healthcare, transport etc etc I can go on, if the population doesnt want to pay them? Do you want the UK to turn into another America where if you get ill you go bankrupt?

edit on 18-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:32 PM by Doublemint
reply to post by JennaDarling


redevelopment is the problem. you want the best newest thing when you have no money. You have made yourself look like a fool.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:35 PM by JennaDarling
Originally posted by Doublemint
reply to post by JennaDarling


redevelopment is the problem. you want the best newest thing when you have no money. You have made yourself look like a fool.


redevelopment of deprived areas is NOT a problem, infact it is needed. Just look at that wasteland called Northern Ireland, I can show you streets upon streets of redevelopment planned but the governmetn has NO MONEY because the populous bitch and moan about paying taxes.

Would you rather those areas just turn into a waste land? That is what is happening. I can also show you places in Scotland, and England in the same condition.

I have seen it.

We are not talking about redeveloping areas that have good housing and good buildings, these are deprived areas! Last had a life perhaps 20 years ago or more! The country is also running out of affordable places for people to live in! People cannot afford house prices, there is not enough places to live, that is also why the government rezones areas from industry to residential, that also requires money.



edit on 18-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:38 PM by wcitizen
Look at the mess we are already in. Our economies survive because of wars )mass murder) and global pillage. Perhaps you don't accept that they are all run by the global criminal cabal.

If we don't extricate the country, even if that means a time of hardship, we will be living in perpetual slavery to the mafia in the not too distant future.

You continue to argue on their terms - using the arguments they use to instill fear in people. The meme is if you try to get out of our criminal system you will suffer.

What is guaranteed is that if we don't get out of their system we and generations to come will suffer terribly.

I want the UK out of Europe. I want the right to issue currency taken away from the private banking cartel which is the Bank of England, and I want it returned to the government of the UK. We will no longer pay interest on money we create.

I'm happy to embrace a much, much simpler lifestyle so that we can reclaim our country and get rid of increasinly crazy government control on every aspect of my life.

I would rejoice that we were no longer part of the 'coalition' sending troops to commit mass murder all over the world.

I'm prepared to take responsibility for myself. I don't want the government 'looking after' me. I want clean, poison free water, fresh food and clean air. I want a country where those who want to release free energy devices are not assassinated, where technology is used to enhance lives, not kill. I want our children to be safe from cabal organised paedophilia. I want education to become something of value again which enhances lives.

I don't want european corporatprats ruling my country or my life. I want the international banksters put in jail.
I don't want my wonderful planet to be plundered and destroyed.

You use the exact same argument as them - trade. Trade and money have become gods, which finance their lies and their pillage.

There are other other ways to live. Consumerism has had its day. It failed.







edit on 18-8-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:39 PM by JennaDarling
reply to post by wcitizen


I think the entire concept of ownership and a monitary system has had its day, then again I am a Star Trek fan and I dream of that kind of future.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:40 PM by Doublemint
reply to post by JennaDarling


If there is no money how to do build? you get slaves. why should the people pay to rebuild government buildings if they are not needed? and if these are privite buildings then the owners should rebuild them their selves not the tax payer. trust me if the government wanted to rebuild their buildings they do they don't wait for the money.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:41 PM by JennaDarling
Originally posted by Doublemint
reply to post by JennaDarling


If there is no money how to do build? you get slaves. why should the people pay to rebuild government buildings if they are not needed? and if these are privite buildings then the owners should rebuild them their selves not the tax payer. trust me if the government wanted to rebuild their buildings they do they don't wait for the money.


Yeah lol good luck with that.


reply posted on 18-8-2011 @ 12:43 PM by marg6043
reply to post by wcitizen


This how the elite in power enslave nations around them with debt, so while the EU were able to do that to those under their wing, now that their banskters are in trouble they most sell their own citizens to France and Germany in order for their own elites to keep thriving, guess what they will do it, for greed they will sell their own citizens.
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