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Difficulty understanding God

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posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Mankind is sent down here to prove their love for God. What better way to prove your love than through trials. It is not for God but for that individual person. Yes, father knows the outcome of your decision. But, when you have been through the bottom like you did as Job, he can say wow I been through all that and I truly love God. It's more of knowing it through experince rather than just saying it.
reply to post by jhill76
 


I am yelling an AMEN TO THAT!!!!! Man is this sooooo true! I would like to add that we are here to perfect in love....this is God's agenda through us as he only experiences through his creation.




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Did we forget that we go by God's law? God does not follow your laws or your thoughts , you conform to him , he doesnt conform to you. If you think he should .. then you are denying him. God sent his Son to be killed by man to keep the law he created. A clean / innocent lamb.

I dont see how the Bible says , it is a Mystery is confusing. Its simple that it is not for man to know. Its not a secret , but man probably wouldnt understand just like the Bible tells us there are things in heaven man hasnt imagined before.

You simply take it , God is sometimes above your comprehension.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


God isnt testing mans faith , the Bible tells us it is a Mystery why Satan is here. There would be no sin without Satan , as our battle is against principailities.

You live to save others to bring them to Christ , to serve God. Man has already failed. We have a free ticket now ... we just need to get as many aboard as possible thats all you're here for.
edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 

Thank you for understanding my frustration..and deep down I can only hope you are correct..and some day.. I will understand..



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by MamaJ
 


God isnt testing mans faith , the Bible tells us it is a Mystery why Satan is here. There would be no sin without Satan , as our battle is against principailities.

You live to save others to bring them to Christ , to serve God. Man has already failed. We have a free ticket now ... we just need to get as many aboard as possible thats all you're here for.
edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


God does test your faith, this is very evident in all of the Word. Romans 9, sums up most of all the people in the bible who were tested via faith. But again, it sounds confusing. But, the testing of your faith is for said person, not Father
edit on 18-8-2011 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by MamaJ
 


God isnt testing mans faith , the Bible tells us it is a Mystery why Satan is here. There would be no sin without Satan , as our battle is against principailities.

You live to save others to bring them to Christ , to serve God. Man has already failed. We have a free ticket now ... we just need to get as many aboard as possible thats all you're here for.
edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


Where did I say God is testing mans faith? I didn't.

It is no mystery to me as to why Satan is here.
Believe what YOU may.

Everyone gets to God their own way...hopefully their way is through Jesus. I can only speak on behalf of my experience and my understanding based on MY relationship with the Creator.

I hope this helps..... I appreciate the way you understand the Word....



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by jhill76
 


...wrong post.
edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by MamaJ
 


God isnt testing mans faith , the Bible tells us it is a Mystery why Satan is here. There would be no sin without Satan , as our battle is against principailities.

You live to save others to bring them to Christ , to serve God. Man has already failed. We have a free ticket now ... we just need to get as many aboard as possible thats all you're here for.
edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)


Where did I say God is testing mans faith? I didn't.

It is no mystery to me as to why Satan is here.
Believe what YOU may.

Everyone gets to God their own way...hopefully their way is through Jesus. I can only speak on behalf of my experience and my understanding based on MY relationship with the Creator.

I hope this helps..... I appreciate the way you understand the Word....


I love it, you stated many things that the church will not speak on, as for fear of losing members, and of course their pocketbooks.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by gabby2011
 


Gabby I believe you will....if you continue to search and seek out understanding it will reveal itself to you. I am more than happy to answer any questions you may have as I see it....doesn't make it correct but it may give you a head start to your own understanding.
((((((HUGS))))))) for you!!!!



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by jhill76
 


God isnt testing MAN. He tests you on a personal level to increase your faith.


Isn't it one and the same? Of course, it's on a personal level. Everyone has a different measure of faith than the next. But, you can believe every man goes through a testing period, whether small or great.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:11 PM
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Testing is necessary and beneficial for the one being tested. He may think he is ready to graduate -- that he knows it all. Testing allows him to see what the real situation is. It confronts him with reality.

Tests should be "bread" for us (Numbers 14:7-9). We should grow stronger in faith as we pass each test. The test does not make us strong, but God's Word makes us strong as we use it to overcome the test.

I used to think God does not test us. I reasoned that He knew what was in us, so He had no need to test us. He does know -- but we don't. It is true that God does not tempt us to do wrong or to fail, just to see if we will.

God does not tempt us! He does not use evil to test us (James 1:13). God just allows us to act on His Word -- which is more than enough to put us over -- to overcome evil.

Does God use the devil to teach us, correct us, and discipline us? No -- not any more than a good human parent would -- or does.

Another reason I thought God does not test us was because then we would not know when to resist the devil and when to submit to God. However, God's tests are different than the temptations and trials of the devil. God's test is whether we act on His Word, trusting Him.

We should always stand in faith, and resist the devil and his works. God's Word always works -- but not always instantly. From when we take our stand on God's Word to when the answer manifests, constitutes the test.


Man is not being tested. We have failed a long time ago.
edit on 04/30/2011 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


I am glad you wrote this, you scared me there for a minute. But, very true words.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by milkyway12
 


IN MY OPINION:


We knew before we ever came to this plane of existence what we would be faced against with this choice or that. This is a learning ground whereas we learn quicker in the realm of "time". We cannot learn some things while we are home....its a paradise...this is Hell.

We have Angels and spirits rooting for us.....helping us to stay on our path. We have free will with the lack of memory so we are winging it the best we can. Some of us have learned a little quicker...just the way it is.

God experiences EVERYTHING through his creation including US....


ETA: I also want to add that it is my opinion that this Planet is where the darkness resides. Its negativity is testing to spirits who want to do the will of God and believe me...it is not easy here. For this reason we learn a lot quicker than if we were back home.

edit on 18-8-2011 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by UndesirableNo1
But God made Satan (Lucifer, Morning Star, whatever). He was kicked out of heaven to Earth, which he is now "the prince of this world," in which after Judgement Day, God throws Satan and his minions into the fires of Hell as punishment. Hell is a place created for punishment, it is not where the Devil currently dwells or rules like a king. But God created this place of punishment for Satan. God created Hell. And while it's hard to grasp what hell is, if it's worse than anything the devil can create (a corrupt planet Earth) wouldn't that make God more evil than the devil?


Well we don't know what Hell is exactly. It's not described much in the Bible other than as a place of "eternal torment". In the story of Lazarus and the rich man the description makes it sound like it's very hot, thus the typical portrayal of it being on fire. But, there are those who believe "Hell" is simply "separation from God". The typical Christian belief is that we have to choose or reject God while alive, and that once we die we will go to Heaven or Hell depending on that choice. However, I have studied the Bible quite a bit and have not found anything to support this belief. Usually this passage is referenced as "proof":


Hebrews 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,


However, I believe this to be a passage explaining that there is no such thing as reincarnation rather than a comment on losing our choice after death. I have seen nothing that says that once you die, you lose your ability to choose. My personal belief is in the Ontological argument's description of God- "that which there is no greater", and as such, He is the ultimate in fairness and goodness. That leads me to believe that He does not kill people, or sanction the killing of people, and that Bible passages that describe such were tainted by the human writers who, like so many men after them, wanted to ascribe the deeds of men some credence by saying the deeds were done in God's name.

So my belief is that each person chooses to be with God or not to be with Him, thus going to Heaven or Hell is a personal choice that each person makes, and regardless of where you go it ends up being the place you want to be (some people outright admit that given the choice they'd go to Hell voluntarily).


Originally posted by UndesirableNo1
And salvation. God created this big universe, and we may not be the only lifeforms here on Earth. Angels are lifeforms that don't live on earth. So is that to say that before the Devil, NO SOUL suffered the HORRIBLE damnation of hell because everyone got to be/go to Heaven and that after the devil is thrown into hell, all the other lifeforms in the Universe that God created are lucky because they weren't tempted by the Devil on Earth and get to go to heaven, too?


Well again, if you view Hell as simply a separation from God, it all makes more sense. The fallen angels are "fallen" because they chose to reject God, so separation from God (Hell) was their choice.


Originally posted by UndesirableNo1
Also...Why is God waiting to punish Satan for his transgression after he takes humanity with him? Why not have punished Satan then and there in Heaven? Why wait to punish Satan after he takes away the creatures you created in your image?


Here's my thought on this- if you think about the good things in your life, it's the measure of those things against the bad things that gives them their appeal. In other words, if you had no bad things in your life, you would not have a measure for appreciating the good. It's the yin-yang concept, you have to have the bad (or evil) to fully understand and appreciate the good. If you believe Revelation, the world as we know it (society, not the planet) will end and will be replaced with a pure, good, perfect society that God will lead directly. Personally I think what we are going through now is required so we can truly appreciate just how perfect the next step will be.

As a side note, these are of course my own opinions and while I am a follower of Christ, my beliefs do not align with mainstream Christian beliefs in many ways. It is my belief that none of us can possibly understand God's true nature, He exceeds our capacity to understand Him. But that doesn't stop us from trying, for most people they feel they must understand Him just so they can believe in Him, and therefore they create a definition of Him that meets their expectations. What separates me from others is that I don't pretend my version of God is the "right" one, I readily admit I am just trying to understand that which cannot be understood. My belief is that if you read something either in the Bible, Talmud, Koran or elsewhere that makes you say "a just and loving God would not do this" then it doesn't mean there is no God, it just means that whatever you're reading is probably inaccurate.



edit on 18-8-2011 by SavedOne because: typo



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 


There are many passages in the New Testament whereas Jesus and his disciples speak of hell. I once thought it was merely a separation until I discovered more....and the more I discovered and understood....the more I have been lead to be in a literal Hell.

For me I have confirmation through the Bible of a Hell. It smells...it is filled with gruesome creatures who want to eat you up and tear you apart. It is HOT and your thirst is never quenched. It is suffering at its worst actually. The many Near Death Experiences who have witnessed Hell describe exactly what I just described.

The "Fallen" are indeed here. Hell is a real place deep inside our Earth. This is My belief....and this is why we are constantly struggling to do the will of God. Under these circumstances it is hard but we took the challenge.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 


Hell is the second death for the ones being sent. The only ones who will burn forever are the beast and the false prophet. No where does it state that man will burn forever, as many churches seem to say to this day. The second death is the killing of the soul. You relive all of your past sins, and then when you ask, you will cease to exist.

Also, it's not a choose or go to hell choice. Everyone has a different method to Father, but Jesus WILL be the judge. If you don't make that choice, you will still have the chance based on your choices in life. For every man already has a place prepared for him. Father knows what will ultimately happen.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by UndesirableNo1
Michael the angel mentioned it took him 40 days to answer someone's prayer because there "was a war in heaven." I'm not sure if that means it was a civil war between angels, or Satan attacking heaven because it doesn't say, but that was unrest in Heaven, again, after the fall of Satan and 1/3 of the angels.
This brings up more questions, which may be off topic. Aren't angels intangible beings? If so, how do they war with each other? Can they hurt or kill each other? If so, what do they become when they die? If they can't hurt or kill each other, what's the point of fighting? No one would ever win....


Angels fought in wars and even had sex with women, who gave birth to hybrids, which God condemned and set the flood to destroy. That's in Genesis. The angels can also appear invisible when they want to, I'm reminded of a story of a man with his donkey, kicking the donkey, and the donkey saw the angel and he did not, and then the donkey is given the power to speak and says he saw the invisible angel that would have killed his owner had the donkey not turned around. It appears they are both physical and can turn invisible, though most physical is in the Old Testament.


Originally posted by foundthetruth
A great book that you would like by the sounds of it is Destiny of Souls: New Case Studies of Life Between Lives. It has changed my view on everything. It should help you out with your questions. have fun


Thank you for this book suggestion. I will check into it.


Originally posted by CynicalDrivel
The thought process:
When you physically die, your body ceases to live. When you spiritually die in the second death, your spirit ceases to live. What exactly in detail the 2nd death is, is where the crux of the argument is at, for them.


Your spirit/soul ceases to live? See, I don't follow that. God isn't even destroying the devil, he's putting him in a place of punishment, and his followers. That is all over the Bible, and the second death being thrown in hell with torment. It doesn't talk about the death of souls. It would make sense, but there's also an interesting discovery out there that matter can not be destroyed. This would explain why God ISN'T destroying the existence of Satan and his minions, we were all from God in the beginning/creation, right? He created everything? Including hell, a place for the "bad guys" to dwell in punishment, not completely destroyed in soul.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
Mankind will inherit the new earth. All sin and evil will be no more. It will all be destroyed in the pit.
So it wiill be like it was in the Garden of Eden.....and we know what happened there. But if you're saying that the scenario that happened in the Garden can not happen again...why not? And if that IS the case, why wasn't this done to begin with? To give man a choice? Does this mean that there is no longer a choice? Free will is gone? It doesn't make any sense. If you're going to do this, why not do it at the beginning and avoid torturing many people forever?



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by UndesirableNo1
 


Angels are not visible today, different methods are done today. Many come just as a regular human, you could never tell the difference. This was changed long ago, because today it would scare too many people if it was done as before. Only way you could tell, is if you can see, you would see the wings on said human. You can tell what type of angel by the way the wings look.

There are some who walk the Earth that can see all of the spirits in plain sight, but it is rare.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:36 PM
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Originally posted by jhill76
Sin and evil will all be destroyed. You wouldn't know how to sin because the knowledge or concept won't be there.
Again, like in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve had no concept of sin. They did not have the knowledge of good and evil. This means they didn't know what was evil, or wrong because their eyes were still shut.




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