New military documents cast doubt on Kerry's swift boat critics

New records show that the swift boat veteran for truth leader who claimed there was no attack on their convoy at Bay Hap river, reveal that he was awarded a bronze star for the battle he claimed never took place.

Military Documents Cast Doubt on Kerry Critic's Version of Combat, Published Report Says
The Associated Press
Published: Aug 19, 2004

WASHINGTON (AP) - Military records appear to contradict claims by a vocal critic of Sen. John Kerry that the Democratic presidential candidate lied about coming under gunfire during a mission in Vietnam, according to The Washington Post.
The newly obtained records of Larry Thurlow show that he, like Kerry, won a Bronze Star for the same engagement and that Thurlow's citation said he came under "constant small arms fire," the newspaper reported Thursday.

Thurlow, also like Kerry, commanded a Navy Swift boat during the war. Thurlow swore in an affidavit last month that Kerry was "not under fire" when he rescued Lt. James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River.

Thurlow's records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of Information Act, include references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day. In his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television advertisement attacking Kerry's war record.

Kerry has described how his boat came under fire from the river banks after a mine explosion disabled another U.S. Swift boat. Kerry and members of his crew say the firing continued as Kerry leaned over to fish out Rassman, who was blown overboard in another explosion.

Thurlow described Kerry's Bronze Star citation as "totally fabricated," saying "I never heard a shot."

Thurlow, a registered Republican, said he is angry with Kerry for his antiwar activities after his return to the United States, especially his claim that U.S. troops committed war crimes with the knowledge of their officers up the chain of command.

Thurlow told the Post that he got the award for helping to rescue the boat that was mined.

"This casts doubt on anybody's awards," he said. "It is sickening and disgusting."

He said he believed his award would be fraudulent if it was based on coming under enemy fire.

"We weren't under fire," he insisted.

Thurlow said he lost his Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he would not authorize release of his military records because he feared the Kerry campaign would discredit him.

Members of Kerry's crew have said Kerry is telling the truth. Rassman said he has vivid memories of enemies firing at him from both banks.

ap.tbo.com...

That is simply awsome..

Just goes to show how far Bush and his supporters will go to muddy somone up.

Wraith

They had an old clip on the TV of one of the guys...saying something completely different than what he is now...
I'm being told that they could conceivably, if they desired to, begin military tribunals, since, obviously, someone has lied somewhere along the line, and there's a possibility that honors and medals were given that weren't deserving. and well, those who are lying, would have their awards, honors, medals, and pensions taken away.
doubt if they would do it though.

with all the ranting about kerry, and his wife...
well, his wife has been married to two prominent congressmen. Kerry has had to have gone through some intensive security investigations to hold some of the responsibilities that he's been given. You'd think that if there was anything about the two that posed a security risk...it would have been found by now.

That kind of makes me doubt much of the stuff that has been posted about him.
of course, I imagine Bush and Cheney have gone through the same scrutiny....and well.....I still find myself doubting them..so, maybe not.

more discussion at www.abovetopsecret.com...

-koji K.

Another thing to keep in mind is at the time Kerry was protesting on the mall, then president NIXON was livid and trying to get/create any dirt on Kerry that he could. For those of you who are too young to remember Nixon was the only the second president in history to be impeached, mostly due to involvment in criminal activities. Nixon was NOT someone you look to for credibility or honesty.
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Just watched the leader of the Swift Boats for Truth guy on McNeil/Lehrer news hour. This issue did not pop up because of the election, he in fact debated Kerry on these issues in 1971 on the Dick Cavet Show. I have not been able to find more proof on this but, this is what he said.....

Originally posted by FredT
This issue did not pop up because of the election, he in fact debated Kerry on these issues in 1971 on the Dick Cavet Show. I have not been able to find more proof on this but, this is what he said.....

Here's the transcript you speak of,

ice.he.net...

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The interview, after reading basically the whole thing is over the way the Vietnam war should have wound down. It doesn't have any real questions about anyone's service record.
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Originally posted by slank
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The interview, after reading basically the whole thing is over the way the Vietnam war should have wound down. It doesn't have any real questions about anyone's service record.
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One of the assertions in the book "UNFIT TO COMMAND" is the complicity of Kerry and the VVAW meeting with the N. Vietmanese in Paris to agree on promoting a prisoner release to the VVAW that ultimately would have promoted a withdrawel of U.S. forces in order to gain all POW freedom and have the effect of promoting Kerry and the VVAW into the big league limelight.

FBI files corraborate this aspect and you should see Kerrys bent in the discussion towards this aim if you have read all of the debate.

I find it damning that our most liberal members are staying away from and seemingly avoiding posts that have "hard" evidence of Kerry's lies even when the posts start with information that should have been positive for the Kerry position.

Nobody anywhere has refuted point by point all of the assertions of the 60 veterans that served with Kerry in CD-11, not to mention the total number of Swift Boat Vets that are against Kerry (254) How many does Kerry have for him 7 - 9? The Majority seems to believe Kerry is a fraud whom are we to believe the nine or the two hundred and fifty four?

Fact of the matter is Kerry is the one who has had to retrench on his "seared" memories - how many more memories are a figment of his imagination?

If you are one who has complete and utter belief in Kerry's story's at this time I have a bridge for sale - wanna buy it?

There seems to have been a very important shift in how election campaigns are fought in America. I don't know when it occurred... But it seems that the focus is no longer on the message or on the debate of ideas. It's on how well you can paint the other side's candidate as a liar, a crook, a philanderer, and worst of all... an Un-American traitor!

America prides itself on being the model of democracy, and so it should, since its democracy is the second oldest still in existence in the world (after Switzerland). But can American democracy survive the star-system era, where it's not your ideas that count, but how well you look on TV and how "righteous" you are proven to be?

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Excuse me? Kerry HAS a war record to question. GW Bush was a deserter.
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Originally posted by Phoenix
I find it damning that our most liberal members are staying away from and seemingly avoiding posts that have "hard" evidence of Kerry's lies even when the posts start with information that should have been positive for the Kerry position.

Nobody anywhere has refuted point by point all of the assertions of the 60 veterans that served with Kerry in CD-11, not to mention the total number of Swift Boat Vets that are against Kerry (254)

Really, you find that damning? Maybe the liberals are just waiting for you to prove you've stopped beating your wife first. Have you by the way? I'd like proof.

Originally posted by slank
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Excuse me? Kerry HAS a war record to question. GW Bush was a deserter.
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That goes back to the basic point. Kerry has tried to use his war record to political advantage. He in effect opened the Pandoras Box. He has already admitted that his account of being in Cambodia is untrue. As the Governator of California put it, "Where There IS Smoke There Is Fire". That alone should have everybody from Liberals to Conservatives to everbody in between (Ill leave the Earth Firsters and the John Birchers out of it for now) taking another look at the Kerry record in Vietnam. I find it intersting that the wife beating comment was the only responce to the statement that Phoenix makes below

Nobody anywhere has refuted point by point all of the assertions of the 60 veterans that served with Kerry in CD-11, not to mention the total number of Swift Boat Vets that are against Kerry (254) How many does Kerry have for him 7 - 9? The Majority seems to believe Kerry is a fraud whom are we to believe the nine or the two hundred and fifty four?

Having had a grandfather that served with distinction in WWII (101 Airborn), and Uncles that served in Korea and Vietnam, they were, are, and will always be loyal to thier unit or division. Esp if those units had seen combat. For the divison that Kerry served with to be so overwhelmingly aginst him is really shocking. Please spare me the "Republican Dirty Tricks" rant (no pun intended) to suggest that the 254 members against Kerry were bought off is really too much. Maybe Kerry used his money to get those 7-9 that are behind him?

This is not my opionion but the opinion of John Kerry's boatmates (the ones on stage with him at the dnc convention) not the swiftboatvets.org people. See this article www.newsmax.com...

Besides if this aticle is correct and John Kerry was on a TOP TOP SECRET Mission why the hell did he right it down in a journal/diary? They claim the only paper proving that he went was HIS DIARY, I dont't know about the rest of you but writing down TOP SECRET Missions ina diary seems a bit CRIMINAL!!

My God, Kerry spent 4 months in Veitnam, it's not like he was there for years and years. 4 months, He was not in combat every single day. How many missions did he have? Why would the Navy send a very junior and inexperienced Swift boat pilot on a "super secret mission." They wouldn't. Bedisdes that the CIA have their own insert and extraction teams. Kerry is a Liar, He can not be trusted. If he was such a good commander, why did he beat feet after 4 months. Just curious, how many people with 3 purple hearts stayed and finnished thier one year tour. I'm willing to bet a lot did. Kerry's running after 4 months just shows that he was all for himself and did not care what happened to his crew. I got my ticket and I'm gone. what a real leader. a true leader would have stayed until his year was up. My cousin was a green beret in Vietnam, he has 8 purple hearts, he stayed his entire year and did not take the chickens way out. Kerry should be ashamed that he left his "band of brothers" behind.