Nikola Aleksic: Stop Chemtrails or...

Originally posted by Nikola014
Yes i did.
People from some natural institute said that.
And the government told us that...

So, due to the fact that you have no idea what kind of spraying they were telling you they were going to do, the spraying could have been pesticide spraying, which is extremely common, and would have been done from about 500 feet (150 meters) in altitude.

If it was done at 500 feet, then there is no way the spraying could have brought rain over the next few days. So if this was pesticide that they were spraying, then I'd say it WAS just a coincidence that the rains came afterward.

To believe there is definitely a connection with no proof other than the timing of the two events, then you would be falling into the fallacy of "post hoc, ergo proctor hoc", which translates into "Before, therefore caused by" -- meaning that it is a fallacy to believe one event caused the other event based SOLELY on the fact that one event happened before the other event, without causality. You need to show causality -- i.e., evidence that the first event caused the second event.

Dear Aloysius the Gaul and Uncinus: thanks for contributing nothing to the problem of aluminum as observed in the color of hydrangeas. Thanks but no thanks for your pathetic displays of Latin and Greek. If you don't want to be understood, why not present quotes in Basque? And speaking of Basque here's a story from the neighborhood of even more international activists objecting to geoengineering and receiving threats for their efforts:

From consiouslifenews.com 'Is the U.S. Bullying Other Nations into Geoengineering/Chemtrail Spraying?'
Feb. 7, 2011

"According to a cable released by Wikileaks, the former United States ambassador to France recommended 'moving to retaliation' against France in late 2007 to fight a French ban on Monsanto's genetically modified (GM) corn."

"Former Ambassador Craig Stapleton...wrote the following to diplomatic colleagues: 'Country team Paris recommends that we calibrate a target retaliation list that causes some pain across the EU since this is a collective responsibility, but that also focuses in part on the worst culprits.' "

"In late October, 2010, many chemtrail/geoengineering activists applauded the announcement of a UN ban on Geoengineering. More than 190 nations agreed to ban geoengineering under a United Nations treaty to protect the diversity of life on earth."

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Dear Aloysius the Gaul and Uncinus: thanks for contributing nothing to the problem of aluminum as observed in the color of hydrangeas.

You said you had observed excess aluminum by the color of your hydrangeas. But then you said you wanted them to be blue, which means the soil should be more acidic, which is normally done by adding a sulfate (like aluminum sulfate).

So it seems you have some indirect indication of the acidity of your soil in your local garden, you get it backwards, and then you extrapolate it to "they are spraying aluminum"?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
And speaking of Basque here's a story from the neighborhood of even more international activists objecting to geoengineering and receiving threats for their efforts:

Where did they get threats for objecting to geoengineering? It says nothing at all bout that in the quoted sources. Just pressure to not ban GMO corn in 2007. Then in 2010 there was a non-binding recommendation that there be a moratorium on geoengineering (not of which they said was actually happening). This was mostly to do with ocean fertilization.

Then at the end of the article, the writer (Greg Scott) speculates that since they can still see contrails in the sky, then somehow the US has bullied the UN into not enforcing the geoengineering "ban".

reply to post by luxordelphi


OK -- so bioengineering and geoengineering have to potential to be harmful. I think that is a bit obvious.

However, the question being raised in this thread has to do with contrails and chemtrails, not geoengineering in general. I don't get how a proposed ban on geoengineering qualifies as evidence that the trails we see in the sky that look like contrails are actually chemtrails.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Dear Aloysius the Gaul and Uncinus: thanks for contributing nothing to the problem of aluminum as observed in the color of hydrangeas.

Hey I posted links to how to change het colouor of hydrangeas - how is that "nothing??

Sheesh - you said it was a problem for you, I showed you how to fix your problem, and you can't even ay thanks??

Thanks but no thanks for your pathetic displays of Latin and Greek. If you don't want to be understood, why not present quotes in Basque?

Given that the original was not in English, it seems to me that understanding ewhat was said in the original language is actually quite important.

do you understand the original?? I certainly don't - and accuracy in translation is very important to me - even if you have no use for it!

And speaking of Basque here's a story from the neighborhood of even more international activists objecting to geoengineering and receiving threats for their efforts:

From consiouslifenews.com 'Is the U.S. Bullying Other Nations into Geoengineering/Chemtrail Spraying?'
Feb. 7, 2011

"According to a cable released by Wikileaks, the former United States ambassador to France recommended 'moving to retaliation' against France in late 2007 to fight a French ban on Monsanto's genetically modified (GM) corn."

"Former Ambassador Craig Stapleton...wrote the following to diplomatic colleagues: 'Country team Paris recommends that we calibrate a target retaliation list that causes some pain across the EU since this is a collective responsibility, but that also focuses in part on the worst culprits.' "

"In late October, 2010, many chemtrail/geoengineering activists applauded the announcement of a UN ban on Geoengineering. More than 190 nations agreed to ban geoengineering under a United Nations treaty to protect the diversity of life on earth."

so no threats to activists at all then.

Do you think it is actually helpful to anyone to say something happened (threats to activists) and then post something to support your statement that says nothing of the sort??

Dear Soylent Green is People, Aloysius the Gaul and Uncinus:

Hydrangeas: because you all don't seem to miss a sky blue sky I can understand why the color of Hydrangeas would whiz past your eyeballs without registering anything at all. Because none of you have any idea of what I'm talking about which actually requires field work rather than racing through the web for nonsense and because none of you seem capable of looking up (or down in the case of Hydrangeas) and because I observe no evidence of actual interest on your parts I'll leave it at that. Someone who already knows everything is incapable of learning anything.

Greek, Latin and Basque: I don't speak Greek. I don't speak Latin...oh wait...neither does anyone else! That's why, for purposes of ATS, which conducts social networking in English, it's important, if limiting, to find material on the web from foreign countries in English or with subtitles as in the video of this OP. If any of you have ever translated anything or read translations from languages you know then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Geoengineering: here is a definition from urbandictionary.com " 'Geoengineering' Loosley defined as the intentional large-scale manipulation of the global environment; planetary tinkering; a subset of terraforming or planetary engineering. Techniques proposed include sulfate cannons, space mirrors, and huge buckets of white paint. In 1996 Thomas Schelling wrote, 'Geoengineering is a new term, still seeking a definition. It seems to imply something global, intentional, and unnatural...' Geoengineering is the last gasp of a dying civilization."

Threats to anti-geoengineering activists: (from my previous post) from consiouslifenews.com 'Is the U.S. Bullying other Nations into Geoengineering/Chemtrail Spraying?' "According to a cable released by Wikileaks, the former United States ambassador to France recommended 'moving to retaliation' against France in late 2007 to fight a French ban on Monsanto's genetically modified (GM) corn." Please...reading comprehension here and this is in English.

Nature of this thread: IMHO this thread includes GMO's because they were mentioned in the video opening this thread. Nikola Aleksic mentioned them. In fact, he opened his rant with them. I'm surprised that you all didn't notice this.

To sum and make crystal my points: anti-chemtrail, GMO and geoengineering activists, some in government, some in ecological groups, some as individuals, around the world, based on their observations and their continuity of evidence are acting to obtain a cease and desist in their respective spheres. Pro-chemtrail, GMO and geoengineering factions, which include but are not exclusive to legitimate governments, illegitimate governments and mega corporations are acting and have acted to put these systems into operation and their continuity of evidence to refute the oppositions' observations and evidence is vested and contaminated by self-service.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Dear Soylent Green is People, Aloysius the Gaul and Uncinus:

Hydrangeas: because you all don't seem to miss a sky blue sky I can understand why the color of Hydrangeas would whiz past your eyeballs without registering anything at all. Because none of you have any idea of what I'm talking about which actually requires field work rather than racing through the web for nonsense and because none of you seem capable of looking up (or down in the case of Hydrangeas) and because I observe no evidence of actual interest on your parts I'll leave it at that. Someone who already knows everything is incapable of learning anything...

I've looked up in the sky a lot, and have always had an interest in aviation and aerospace. That's how I know that the trails I see in the sky are contrails. That's how I know that persistent contrails have existed as long as I can remember having an interest in the sky -- which is back to the 1970s. So knowing the characteristics of a contrail, I have yet to have a chemtrail believer give me a good method of discerning a difference between the common contrail and what they allege are chemtrails.

Please tell me what method you have that makes you able to look at a high-altitude trail coming from a plane and tell the difference between it being a contrail or a chemtrail.


As for the rest of your post about geoengineering:
...Sure -- I'm not disagreeing with the idea that geoengineering could potentially be harmful, and we should be very careful of unwanted/unintended consequences when we consider future geoengineering projects, such as the proposed seeding of the oceans with iron in order to reduce the effects of global warming. There could be unintended consequences that could make things worse for the Earth rather than better.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


My observations:

"Why are metallic looking rainbows appearing in the sky?"

"Why are people in the middle of nowhere telling me they can't see stars at night?"

"Why am I having trouble seeing stars at night in the middle of nowhere?"

"Why do the stars look like they are covered with some sort of mist?"

"Why does the ocean, reflecting the sky, look oily?"

"Why are planes spraying and then doubling back to keep spraying?"

"Why are planes stopping and starting spraying across the sky as they fly like some mad morse coders?"

"Why are there grid patterns in the sky?"

"Why is the sky this wierd gray color?"

"What happened to the Prussian blue color of sky that I used to look forward to seeing just as the very last twilight faded and night was enveloping the land?"

These are some of my observations having to do with what led me to chemtrails. I can't speak for others because I'm sure that their questions and observations were individual to them. I'll grant you that a lot of times conclusions precede observation but not for me in this case. I also have to say that alot of times we see what we expect to see regardless of what there is to see. Also have to add that normal is subjective and memory is selective but in this thread we do have Nikola Aleksic mentioning that prior to Serbia signing the Partnership for Peace treaty, his skies were chemtrail and contrail free and after it was not so. Also have to add that I don't have a conclusion for why - just a personal theory - but I do empathize with those who look to historical now declassified documents to try to understand current behavior and motives.

As far as metal particulates and human beings go - this is a horror story that begins as far back as the Romans and their lead conduits. Some now think that this is what made them sterile and made them monsters. I know that Alzheimer's and aluminum is an on again off again association and yet when we are all so feeble minded that we are unable to even feed ourselves it will be too late to put profit and special interest aside in order to have a credible result.

reply to post by luxordelphi


All that is just from normal contrails man.

Cause you know...it's 2011 and there's more planes.

You can get all your answers at contrailscience

/end of sarcasm

I'm glad someone in this thread see's reality as it is.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

My observations:

"Why are metallic looking rainbows appearing in the sky?"

Rainbows are, by definition, not metallic!! rofl...

Aristotle know of irridescence over 2000 years ago - see note 65.

To claim it is new demonstrates ignorance of nature!

Rainbows and cloud irridescence occur in the sky because there is water there - either liquid or ice.

"Why are people in the middle of nowhere telling me they can't see stars at night?"

"Why am I having trouble seeing stars at night in the middle of nowhere?"

"Why do the stars look like they are covered with some sort of mist?"

I thought you said you couldnt' see them??

apart from teh obvious inconsistency - don't clouds still form?? When was it that you expected there would be no clouds at night??

"Why does the ocean, reflecting the sky, look oily?"

Because there's an oil slick on it?? God knows there's enough of them happening these days, and other chemical leaks from all sorts of sources - waste dumped into storm ater drains, run-off from roads - it's appalling the junk we throw into water!!

"Why are planes spraying and then doubling back to keep spraying?"

Why can't you actually understand how air travel actually works??*

"Why are planes stopping and starting spraying across the sky as they fly like some mad morse coders?"

Why dont' you bothe to understand how the atmosphere works??**

"Why are there grid patterns in the sky?"

* and ** from above combined

"Why is the sky this wierd gray color?"

Why do you think clouds should be transparent??

"What happened to the Prussian blue color of sky that I used to look forward to seeing just as the very last twilight faded and night was enveloping the land?"

there's never been any such thing and you are making stuff up - dusk has always been a time for colours in the skies, and inventing memories that never existed to jsutify your paranoia is really sick!

Originally posted by luxordelphi
"Why are metallic looking rainbows appearing in the sky?"

Natural Cloud Iridescence:
atoptics.com: Cloud Iridescence

"Why are people in the middle of nowhere telling me they can't see stars at night?"

Clouds?
My daytime skies often have persistent spreading contrails, but I still often have clear nights. I also have cloudy nights. I also have partly cloudy nights. I also have hazy nights.

"Why am I having trouble seeing stars at night in the middle of nowhere?"

same answer as above.

"Why do the stars look like they are covered with some sort of mist?"

A thin layer of cloud cover maybe? Perhaps you often have humid nights?

Where I live in the Northeast US, we have our share of thin cloud cover, humidity, and cloudy nights, but we also have our share of wonderfully dark and starry nights. Those starry nights are usually when the air has less humidity, such as in the fall, winter, and spring, although we have had some clear nights this summer.

Those ultra-starry nights in the summer usually occur when the daytime weather was "crisp and clean" (i.e., low humidity).

"Why does the ocean, reflecting the sky, look oily?"

I haven't noticed the ocean being oily, but I'm guessing that if there are oily patches, it could just be pollution from shipping. I'm not sure how you can directly correlate chemtrails with oil slicks on the water. It seems more likely that oil slicks come from ships....

...I mean, if you saw pollution on the side of the highway (paper, beer cans, etc), wouldn't you guess that pollution cam from people in cars? In the same manner, I think an oil slick on the ocean most likely comes from ocean-going traffic, or perhaps industrial waste pipes dumping into the ocean from factories.

"Why are planes spraying and then doubling back to keep spraying?"

Holding patterns for commercial airliners. Often they need to hold in circular paths and at high altitudes. Also, some of those circular path may be military aircraft on practice maneuvers.

"Why are planes stopping and starting spraying across the sky as they fly like some mad morse coders?"

Intermittent contrails. This is when a plane flies from an area of the sky in which the atmospheric conditions ARE conducive to trail formation and into and area of the sky where the conditions are NOT conducive to contrail formation.

These areas can be highly localized, and the boundary between these areas could have wildly varying conditions in close proximity to each other, hence the intermittent trail.

"Why are there grid patterns in the sky?"

A single air route often has "lanes" that are separated horizontally by several thousand feet. There could be several ailiners that fly in these air lanes over a certain area. Some of these air routes (and their several lanes) go generally east-west, and others can go generally north-south. At times in which large areas of the atmosphere are conducive to contrail formation, all of the planes (the several lanes of planes going east-west and the several lanes of planes going north-south) cross in a grid pattern.

I have one of the major east-west routes over my head, and when conditions are conducive to trail formation, I can see several lines of trails. I don't have a north-south air route above me, so I don't see the grid, but my mother lives in a area where these air routes cross, and I have seen this grid pattern.

"Why is the sky this wierd gray color?"

I'm not sure where you are, but here in the Northeast US, we don't only have gray skies (although we occasionally do).

My sky here in the Northeast US is often blue, but it is also often blue with puffy cumulus clouds, or often partly blue with wispy cirrus clouds, or overcast gray with no blue at all, or dark and stormy, or light blue-gray and hazy.

Perhaps global warming is contributing to an increase in humidity, which may lead to a decrease of dark blue-sky days. Who knows?

"What happened to the Prussian blue color of sky that I used to look forward to seeing just as the very last twilight faded and night was enveloping the land?"

Again, I don't know where you live, but because it is summer right now, we more often than not have days with high humidity. Therefore we have a summer haze cause by moisture in the air. However, once in a while (such as yesterday and a couple of days last week), the humidity breaks and we have clear and dark blue skies.

That break in humidity doesn't happen often in the summer -- we usually have more days like that in the mid-to-late fall, winter, and early spring.

That's why I like the mid to late fall the best -- crisp and clean air with very low humidity and (therefore) dark blue skies. Winter skies are also often dark blue like that due to low humidity, but it's also cold, so I don't like it as much



I do admit that the number of contrails could very well be increasing over time, but this could be due to the very obvious increase in air traffic over the past several years (and past several decades), plus the fact that the newer high-bypass jet engines that have began to be in use in the past 10 or 15 years also tends to create more/thicker contrails, due to the cooler and wetter exhaust (cooler+wetter = more trails).

However, I don't think it's these new engines as much as it is simply more planes in the sky.

I've already posted my memories from the 1970s of persistent spreading contrails, and provided a scientific paper from 1972 discussing persistent contrails as back-up information, plus we have all seen photos from as far back as the 1940s of persistent contrails...

...so it seems that they always have existed since the beginning of high-altitude flight.

reply to post by dplum517

You can get all your answers at contrailscience /end of sarcasm

You have admitted to going to that site yourself. The question I ask is why do you go back to a site that seems to be called disinformation site?

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People



Here I have one for you:

from absoluteastronomy.com 'Noctilucent Cloud' 'Encyclopedia' 'Discovery and investigation'

"The United States Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) and the United States Department of Defense Space Test Program (STP) conducted the Charged Aerosol Release Experiment (CARE) on September 19, 2009, using exhaust particles from a Black Brant XII suborbital sounding rocket launched from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility to create an artificial noctilucent cloud. The cloud will be observed over a period of weeks or months by ground instruments and the Spatial Heterodyne IMager for MEsospheric Radicals (SHIMMER) instrument on the NRL/STPSat-1 spacecraft. The Rocket's exhaust plume was observed and reported to news organizations in the United States from New Jersey to Massachusetts."

Your points:

Metallic Rainbows: see quote above for an alternate explanation to your very pretty cloud story.

Clouds: I was living, at the time, near what was known as the solar capitol of the world so no, no clouds.

Humidity: At the time, desert climate; no humidity; no water.

Oil Slicks: Not a chance. Traveling at the time near to protected waters, scenic parks, pristine beaches.

Holding Patterns: No airport.

Intermittant Contrails: A spokesperson for Evergreen in a clip advertising their services for the Gulf oil spill said and bragged that they have the capacity with their tanker to do this - start stop start stop - while spraying and flying. No sale.

Air Lanes: At the time no airport. Occasional military flights and occasional black hawks. No airlane.

Haze and Color: No industry. No airport. No water. No smog. Have you ever seen and recognized Prussian Blue? I bet not because seeing and appreciating colors and being able to distinguish among the hundreds of dark blues is one of those things where I have to say we all have our gifts.

To end on an upbeat note - I'm going to agree with you on more planes in the sky but not on more unclassified traffic.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



All I can really say to your long (yawn) post is no.

2nd line: have you noticed how the more perturbed you get the worse your typing becomes?

3rd line: differentiating colors is not for everyone - perhaps you have an ear for music?

Yes - noctiluscent clouds made by rockets for teh purpose of studying the upper atmosphere - and what's more they often use barium to do so - NASA makes public announcements about them all the time:

Here's an article with a photo

so:

1/ doesn't resemble a contrail
2/ not from an airliner
3/ not secret - here's het wiki page already...en.wikipedia.org...
4/ not a straight line across a clear blue sky
5/ not cloud seeding
6/ at 173 miles height it's about 30 times the height any airliner could possibly travel (which is why to do it by rocket!)
7/:

The dust cloud is generated using the Nihka motor dust generator. The dust cloud is composed of aluminum oxide, carbon monoxide, hydrogen chloride, water, and nitrogen, as well as smaller amounts of carbon dioxide, hydrogen, monatomic chlorine, and monatomic hydrogen.

I would have thought this one would be more interest to you - sounding rocket carries barium payload - except they released it even higher - 360 miles - so even less connection with chemtrials sprayed by airliners.......so maybe you are beginning to think things through...jsut a little.....I can live in hope

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

All I can really say to your long (yawn) post is no.

2nd line: have you noticed how the more perturbed you get the worse your typing becomes?

Don't let it worry you - my typing has always been crap since long before chemtrails were first imagined.

3rd line: differentiating colors is not for everyone - perhaps you have an ear for music?

Yes - I can do both - no need to be limited

Thanks for your concerns - but I think you'd be better off addressing issues of evidence ...or lack thereof!

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

Here I have one for you:

from absoluteastronomy.com 'Noctilucent Cloud' 'Encyclopedia' 'Discovery and investigation'

"The United States Naval Research Laboratory (NRL) and the United States Department of Defense Space Test Program (STP) conducted the Charged Aerosol Release Experiment (CARE) on September 19, 2009, using exhaust particles from a Black Brant XII suborbital sounding rocket launched from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility to create an artificial noctilucent cloud. The cloud will be observed over a period of weeks or months by ground instruments and the Spatial Heterodyne IMager for MEsospheric Radicals (SHIMMER) instrument on the NRL/STPSat-1 spacecraft. The Rocket's exhaust plume was observed and reported to news organizations in the United States from New Jersey to Massachusetts."

Your points:

Metallic Rainbows: see quote above for an alternate explanation to your very pretty cloud story.

I have no doubt that there have been tests of all sorts from rockets and at high-altitudes. These tests do not equal the large-scale chemical spreading operation that chemtrail believers cite as what chemtrails are...and they certainly don't equate to the idea that contrails are chemtrails.

Clouds: I was living, at the time, near what was known as the solar capitol of the world so no, no clouds.

Why would it be the solar capital of the world if you have haze in the sky so often?...

...and if it doesn't happen often, the I would just call that "weather". Even the Solar Capital of the World can have a hazy night once in a while.

Or, do you mean it WAS the solar capital of the world, but it is no longer, because its formerly sunny climate has changed? If this is the case, I would like to know where this place is/was. A change like that sounds interesting.

Humidity: At the time, desert climate; no humidity; no water.

OK, then perhaps contrails.
I never said contrails don't exist. I simply say they are not chemtrails.

Oil Slicks: Not a chance. Traveling at the time near to protected waters, scenic parks, pristine beaches.

Even pristine beaches can have oily pollution from time-to-time. It's hard to get away from water pollution.

Holding Patterns: No airport.

I was recently in a holding pattern flying into Philadelphia, and the pilot told us we were holding over the Binghamtom NY -- Scranton PA area, which is about 125-150 miles from Philly.

Intermittant Contrails: A spokesperson for Evergreen in a clip advertising their services for the Gulf oil spill said and bragged that they have the capacity with their tanker to do this - start stop start stop - while spraying and flying. No sale.

OK -- so the Evergreen water tanker can do that. Very good.
HOWEVER, I know that high-altitude jets can make intermittent contrails, also.

Just because the Evergreen tanker can do that doesn't mean that high-altitudes jets contrail can NOT be intermittent. That would be a logical fallacy, and it doesn't make any sense.

Air Lanes: At the time no airport. Occasional military flights and occasional black hawks. No airlane.

The air routes criss-cross the countryy BETWEEN airports. Planes just don't fly willy-nilly. They fly in pre-arraged air routes.

The one over my house starts in New York, but it could go across the country. I could be in Ohio and have several planes from New York City, Boston, and Philadelphia fly in parallel lanes over my head on their way to Chicago. Denver, and San Francisco -- and cross the paths (in 2D) of other planes in parallel lanes flying from Atlanta, and New Orleans to Minneapolis, Detroit, and Toronto.

You don't need to live near an airport. In fact, if you see a plane with a contrail, it's probably too high to have taken off from any airport within at least 50 miles or more.

Haze and Color: No industry. No airport. No water. No smog. Have you ever seen and recognized Prussian Blue? I bet not because seeing and appreciating colors and being able to distinguish among the hundreds of dark blues is one of those things where I have to say we all have our gifts.

Yes -- I know the color Prussian Blue (I do watercolor painting, and Prussian Blue is a common color in a watercolorist's palette). We very recently had two dark-blue skied days in my area about a week and a half ago. I specifically remember at least one other day like that recently because we had a big outdoor event planned and I remember commenting how nice the sky was. As I said in my post above, we are more likely to have dark-blue sky days in the fall and winter where I live because of the humidity of summer -- but we still have them...

...and as I said above, it is entirely possible IF we have fewer blue-sky days (although I don't have the data that tells me whether we do or not), it may be due to an increase in airline contrails (for reasons I also mentioned in my post above) and, perhaps -- although I'm only speculating -- because of increased humidity caused by global warming.


I never doubted that we have more cloudy days than before, and that could easily be caused by an increase in contrails. However, I see no real correlation between the other effects claimed by chemtrail believers (e.g., iridescent clouds, spreading contrails) and the alleged spraying of chemicals by airliners.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Lux, are you stirring up the chickens?
You have to understand, you don't go up to the cheerleaders and tell them that their team sucks.
Meanwhile, real people are trying to fight this aircrap.
.org.

Originally posted by SirClem
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

Lux, are you stirring up the chickens?
You have to understand, you don't go up to the cheerleaders and tell them that their team sucks.
Meanwhile, real people are trying to fight this aircrap.
.org.

Have you been able to identify anything over at contrailscience.com that is actually wrong yet?

Or any of the half-truths you say it has that we should be aware of??