Nikola Aleksic: Stop Chemtrails or...

Originally posted by The X
...Show me the unmarked planes he is talking about, i bet you say, derp, if they are not on the map they wont be in the air.
You fail to actually try and bring the relevant information he is talking about to the table...

I read psych0's post, and he never mentioned anything about unmarked planes. He just said he saw two parallel trails, but did not see the planes that left them.

He incorrectly assumed that if he saw trails, then the planes that left them should still be there, because he was under the mistaken impression that contrails dissipate very quickly and cannot persist.

We know that's not true. It has been known for many decades that contrails are able to last for hours. WWII bomber pilots used to worry about leaving long-lasting contrails because the very fast German fighter planes could follow those trails, catch up to the slower bombers, and attack them.

Basically, a contrail can persist for hours for the same reason a cirrus cloud can persist for hours.

So, again, I'm not sure what you mean by "unmarked planes". Psych0 never said anything about that. Besides, I would find it hard to believe that someone would be able to tell a plane is unmarked from 6 or 7 miles below it, looking up.

From beforeitsnews.com 'Cyprus "Greens" Call for Haarp, Chemtrails Investigation' April 6, 2011

"THE GREENS yesterday called for government funding to investigate suspected contamination caused by alleged chemtrails in Cypriot skies."

" 'We demand the government keep its promise and examine the possible consequences to the health of residents and the environment from chemtrails created by aircraft taking off from the British Bases in combination with the experimental operation of the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Programme (HAARP) with the Akrotiri British Bases and in Cyprus airspace in general,' party head Ioanna Panayiotou said."

"Research director at Greece's National Centre of Scientific Research, chemist Nicolaos Katsaros said soil samples taken in Greece showed traces of aluminum and barium - substances that are neurotoxic to humans and poison the food chain."


" 'They are the new Weapons of Mass Destruction,' he said."

Someone did take that guy seriously and local newspaper Kurir [tabloid, but very respected because they cover many topics and been on the spot most of the time] is investigating the issue:
KURIR article
Google translate [not that good but will do...]
Google translate version

Originally posted by GakunGak
Someone did take that guy seriously and local newspaper Kurir [tabloid, but very respected because they cover many topics and been on the spot most of the time] is investigating the issue:
KURIR article
Google translate [not that good but will do...]
Google translate version

Well, at least they asked a pilot:

Pilot: Nikad čuo!

Jedan od srpskih pilota koji je želeo da ostane anoniman kaže za Kurir da za pojavu kemtrejlsa nikada nije čuo. Kad smo mu objasnili o čemu je reč, zbunjeno je odgovorio:
- Iskreno, ne verujem u to. Tragovi aviona nastaju zbog kondenzacije gasova koje ispuštaju avionski motori. Oni, u zavisnosti od vazdušnog pritiska i gustine vazduha, mogu da se rasprše brzo, ali i da „stoje“ na nebu i po nekoliko sati - kazao je on.

Translated

Pilot: Never heard of it:

A Serbian pilot who wished to remain anonymous, told Blic that he had never heard of chemtrails. When we explained to him what was going on, confused, he answered:
- Honestly, I do not believe it. The trails result from condensation of gases emitted by aircraft engines. They, depending on air pressure and air density, can be dispersed quickly, or "stand" in the sky for hours - he said.

Their stock photo choice was a bit unfortunate, using a 1974 photo of a 747 fitted with smoke generators for a study on wake vortices.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d8c4cd7ce386.jpeg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0ce461287192.jpg[/atsimg]

Source: www.dfrc.nasa.gov...

reply to post by luxordelphi

I don't know what you re getting at with this post.

Obviously there are some people in the world asking for an investigation into what they call "chemtrails" -- that's what this very thread is about. There are people on ATS who are calling for an investigation. The fact that someone is calling for an investigation does not count as evidence that they are real.

As for the trace amounts of aluminum and barium in the soil -- this has been discussed many time before here. Did that article say an anything about those trace amounts being higher than what is natural? The phrase "trace amounts" just means aluminum and barium exist in the soil. Obviously aluminum and barium could exist in the soil -- it is perfectly natural that they do.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


I suspect that Nicolaos Katsaros is simply referring to the various claims made by US chemtrail believers, such a on What In The World Are THey Spraying.

Here's an older interview with him:

www.elora.gr...

- After the above, we know what's in these "tails" that extend and become Uranium 'veil? "And yet, what kind of planes leaving them?

So now we know for sure what's in these "tails", but surely contain some chemical elements and therefore classified as 'chemtrails'. However, many people claim to have experienced headaches, dizzy, unwell or flu symptoms after their appearance in the sky, very high above their heads. And most of them believe that "we spray with chemicals", while reasonably ask "what are these chemicals" and "whether it is dangerous." From analysis made so far by certain groups or universities, observed that the uranium generated by spraying 'veil' contains aluminum particles and barium in amounts that normally should not exist either in soil or water. Particularly barium is a chemical element that should not be located at ground level.

I think the word "Uranium" is a mistranslation there, although I don't know what else "ουράνιο" would mean, maybe something like "iridescent".

Anyway, note he does not give any figures, and he says that barium "is a chemical element that should not be located at ground level", which is just obviously wrong as there is plenty of barium in the earths crust (average 425 ppm). Possibly he thinks they found free barium which is A) not true, and B) impossible.

reply to post by Uncinus

Thanks for the clarification...

...It's just that I don't see that just because there are people calling to investigate chemtrails, that in itself somehow qualifies as evidence that chemtrails are possibly real (and I'm talking about chemtrails in the popular form of the idea).

I mean, I could start a movement -- and probably get the support of quite a few people -- calling for governments to investigate whether or not the Moon is made of cheese. I realize that is an extreme example, but it's a valid example nevertheless.

From enouranois.gr/english 'WELCOME TO OUR PAGE "ENOURANOIS" ' 'VISIT OF CHEMTRAILS ACTIVISTS TO GREEK PARLIAMENT' May 17, 2011

"This had been made possible by the energy of the Volos activists and the fact that this Greek City is in the electorate of Mr. Kartalis..."

"He had been identified as the man who signed the de facto moratorium on implementation of geoengineering proposals that had been signed by 193 states at the UN Convention on Biodiversity at Nagoya last October."

"Similar inquiries in Belgium earlier this year identified the Flemish Environment Minister Joke Schauvliege as Mr. Kartalis' Belgian counterpart, and this had led to a meeting between Mrs. Schauvliege and chemtrail activist and former Flemish mayor Peter Vereecke at which the Minister had admitted 'off the record' that aerial spraying seen in the skies over Belgium (and everywhere else) is 'geoengineering' ('solar radiation management') in action."

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


The point of my post and my post just above this one is, as you say, to point out that people around the world, some in government and some in leadership positions and some just concerned environmentalists and some just individuals concerned about their personal environment are calling for investigations into chemtrails.

My point in pointing that out is that the point of this thread is pointing out an activist pointing out chemtrails.

The point of an investigation is to collect evidence which can then be used to point to the sensibility of a cease and desist order.

When governments agree to unhealthful and environmentally unsound activities there is a process that people can take to demand accountability and transparency and people in Serbia, Hungary, Cyprus, Greece and Belgium are proceeding with those steps.

Some have obviously as individuals and growing into groups noticed, as I have, chemtrails and excessive aluminum. Observation is the foundation of scientific inquiry and that is how change begins.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Some have obviously as individuals and growing into groups noticed, as I have, chemtrails and excessive aluminum. Observation is the foundation of scientific inquiry and that is how change begins.

Where have you noticed excessive aluminum? You know soil is 7% aluminum, right?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

The point of my post and my post just above this one is, as you say, to point out that people around the world, some in government and some in leadership positions and some just concerned environmentalists and some just individuals concerned about their personal environment are calling for investigations into chemtrails.

Indeed -and fair enough.

The point of an investigation is to collect evidence which can then be used to point to the sensibility of a cease and desist order.

No - the point will firstly be to see whether anything exists in the first place!

And what is goign to happen is they will look into everything that has been alleged....and find nocase to answer. Which is going to disappoint a lot of people, and, IMO, probably result in teh usual coverup claims.

When governments agree to unhealthful and environmentally unsound activities there is a process that people can take to demand accountability and transparency and people in Serbia, Hungary, Cyprus, Greece and Belgium are proceeding with those steps.

I've seen the Cyprus one - which is here, and obviously this guy is a serb - although apparently not actually all that important or well folowed....haven't heard of the others - have you got links to them?

Some have obviously as individuals and growing into groups noticed, as I have, chemtrails and excessive aluminum. Observation is the foundation of scientific inquiry and that is how change begins.

as Uncinus asked - what excess aluminium??

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by FreeSpeaker

 

There's you're problem. I never specifically stated debunkers denied the 1950/60s trials. What I said was..


Originally posted by FreeSpeaker
Many debubkers like to claim there has never been any proof that chemicals have ever been secretly sprayed over populations. LAC & Dew2 debunk that claim

Huh??

you think that the bolded bit isnt' you claiming that "debunkers denied the 1950/60s trials"??

Actually its not. Let me read my quote again. Nope, nothing about any 1950/60 trials.

Your claim includes all such trials - clearly it covers the 50's-60's ones, because they were done.

it's simple enough.....you claimed "...MANY debunkers LIKE to claim that there has NEVER been any proof that chemicals have EVER been secretly sprayed...."

Well "ever" includes the 50's & 60's.......and so debunkers admitting that the trials of the 50's & 60's did take place puts the lie to your claim.

Anyone can read that, why not you? You made an assumption that was wrong and are not mature enough to admit it.

ROFL

Originally posted by Uncinus

I think the word "Uranium" is a mistranslation there, although I don't know what else "ουράνιο" would mean, maybe something like "iridescent".

Google translate translates ουράνι as uranium in Greek - and "ουράνιο τόξο" as rainbow.

It gives "уранијум" for Uranium in Serbian, and "прелијева" for iridescent.

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Some have obviously as individuals and growing into groups noticed, as I have, chemtrails and excessive aluminum. Observation is the foundation of scientific inquiry and that is how change begins.

Where have you noticed excessive aluminum? You know soil is 7% aluminum, right?

I've noticed it in the hydrangeas in Oregon.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



I listed the sources I quoted from and those sources plus the sources earlier quoted by different posters in this thread plus a different thread which you were also in which quoted the source from Hungary. I think those cover all the countries I mentioned. Oh and BTB (by the by) I replied to Uncinus but I'm not sure who appointed you hall monitor???

Also I'm not sure if you're arguing with me about observation being a scientific method or not. Are you?

Originally posted by luxordelphi

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Some have obviously as individuals and growing into groups noticed, as I have, chemtrails and excessive aluminum. Observation is the foundation of scientific inquiry and that is how change begins.

Where have you noticed excessive aluminum? You know soil is 7% aluminum, right?

I've noticed it in the hydrangeas in Oregon.

you had too much in the soil to get them to be pink??!!

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I listed the sources I quoted from and those sources plus the sources earlier quoted by different posters in this thread plus a different thread which you were also in which quoted the source from Hungary. I think those cover all the countries I mentioned.

I don't recall it & I dont' recall seeing them in this thread & a quick search I couldn't find them - why wouldn't you want to make them as easy to see as possible and so post them again??

Oh and BTB (by the by) I replied to Uncinus but I'm not sure who appointed you hall monitor???

If you post here you are posting in public.

If you don't want people reading your posts and making whatever comments they want to about them then you probably need to make them U2U's

Also I'm not sure if you're arguing with me about observation being a scientific method or not. Are you?

No - I was pointing out that the starting point for an enquiry is to psotivly establish that anything is happening in the first place.

And hten I was asking for links so I could read what it was was/is being asked for in the various countries....

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul



I suggest you read the thread and I wanted the hydrangeas to be light blue.

reply to post by luxordelphi


How to change the colour of your hydrangeas - if you want them blue then you WANT more aluminium - and you don't get to put in just a little to make them just a little (ie light) blue - that is determined by the flower itself - not by whether you have a little or a lot of aluminium.

And thanks for nothing with the links - I found what I wanted through google

Originally posted by luxordelphi
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

I suggest you read the thread and I wanted the hydrangeas to be light blue.

Huh? To be blue you want more acid soil. You can get that by adding iron sulfate or aluminum sulfate (or just plain sulfur)

What about your hydrangeas suggests there's too much aluminum? Aluminum by itself does not alter the soil pH.