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Why can't God have an evil side or be flawed?

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posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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There's a guy named Job who might have something to say on the subject




posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by PAPARAYG
reply to post by TheLoneArcher
 

If you were a software programmer and made a good living creating new interactive games, guess who makes the rules of each game? God, the author, creator, designer, programmer, of our universe and all life, made all the rules under which we operate this interactive game we call "our lives". Would it make sense to you if God created rules that made Him a bad guy? Would that be a sane thing to do? All of the bad news in the world is a result of mankind's failures, not God's.



you are on the right track....but, just one thing to add...if God programmed our reality and there are things that would make him look like a bad guy, just like parents sometimes look like the bad guy to their children, then it was part of the program and he programmed these things in....



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by WWu777
This might be a blasphemous question. But why can't God be evil or have an evil side? Why does everyone need to believe that he is perfect and flawless and all good, all righteous, all just, all loving, etc. just because religion says so?

It just doesn't make sense given our imperfect world that is cold and cruel. In a world where evil rules, where 75 percent of the world live in poverty and suffering, where terrible things happen to good people, where animals have to kill and eat other animals to survive, wouldn't it make more sense for God/the Creator/the programmer of our matrix to be evil, sadistic, or revel in chaos? I mean if you can accept that, wouldn't the world make a lot more sense?

Humans have an evil side with harmful destructive qualities. They are imperfect with flaws and negative traits. So why can't God be the same way? The Old Testament describes God as a "jealous God" with regrets and anger. So why do we need to make him out to be perfect and flawless? Why can't he be flawed?

When I'm talking about God, I'm not necessarily referring to a traditional God, just to whatever mind or consciousness at a higher level or dimension is running things and created us. It could also refer to some computer programmer outside of our universe or dimension who put us in a sort of holographic matrix or super computer simulation, since our universe does have some of the properties of a computer program, as some experts have pointed out. (Google "Are we living in a computer simulation" to find some experts, books and websites about this) I'm just referring to whoever or whatever is running things.

Why can't this Creator or super consciousness be evil and flawed, or at least have an evil side? Or at least have negative/bad/imperfect qualities? It would make more sense wouldn't it, given this cold, cruel, unjust universe that we live in that makes no sense. Everything has a good side and bad side. It's part of the ying and yang of our universe. So why can't that apply to the Creator too? If the creation reflects the creator, then this would make sense, wouldn't it? A perfect Creator cannot create an imperfect world.

What do you think?


I think what you should do...is look at our life...on earth, DIFFERENTLY. Start it in reverse.

Try out this theory:

Lucifer, God's ministering Angel (producer, now you see why lyrics are so perverted)....arrayed in all of God's glory...thinking he was "all that and then some", decided to try and take God's throne (kinda like your child thinking he/she is gonna run YOUR house), and in the blink of an eye...was cast down to earth...(something like you'd do, if they even tried)

THEN, God created man....where Lucifer resided, so MAN could HAVE DOMINION OVER EVERYTHING. Which, by the way, is something that mankind has FAILED to do...time and time, again. MAN-ADAM is supposed to rule over EVERYTHING, including: "Evil, Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, whatever"!

See, in God's kingdom, there is an ORDER:

Father - God - Creator
Son - Jesus
Holy Spirit - Helper for man
Angels including fallen ones
Man

Follow me?

Now, when Lucifer was thrown from heaven, he was/is still an Angel....which has LEGAL authority...to rule over man by order, ONLY!. God, does not and WILL NOT break HIS ORDER. This is why Jesus the Christ (the Anointed One and HIS Anointing) is needed in "man's" life....so God can have LEGAL authority, by blood sacrafice, to give you Jesus' inheritance.

When a person becomes 'Born Again' what is really happening is God places man in Jesus' seat; so that the order now becomes:

Father - God - Creator
Son - Jesus with the NEW man
Holy Spirit - Helper for man
Angels including fallen ones
Man without Jesus

The devil and the 1/3 of the Angels has DOMINION/RULE over man, without Christ. This is why, man is in the shape that he's in AND why our society is falling apart, at the seams. Man thinks he can defeat the "spiritual hosts of wickedness in heavenly places", without Jesus the Christ....and it's just NOT possible....by DIVINE ORDER!!!! God WON'T break HIS laws. You want things to get right........get in order. Otherwise, you have NO CHANCE!!!!

Keep this in mind....the 'devil'...has a crew...and they're slowly beginning to manifest themselves via.....PEOPLE. We live in a spirit world....our body is just a 'space suit'. Fallen Angels....need bodies to dwell in...and act THROUGH. Look at some of the things God said, "Do not" and compare it to today's society. We 'DO' whatever, whenever...and think there are no consequences, to our actions.
Man, needs to learn how to take some DOMINION over his OWN actions....and stop BLAMING the "devil". The devil can't make man do anything. That's all man; or woman!



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by WWu777
 



A perfect Creator cannot create an imperfect world.


What makes you think this isn't a perfect world? Our world works perfectly as nature intended, and so do all the lifeforms within our world.

We're the only species that has real flaws that do not comply with nature. Our thoughts and actions are the only real imperfection.




posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by WWu777
 


Simple. God is omnipotent, an omnipotent being can not be flawed nor have an "evil" side. Omnipotence in itself implies that everything the entity does, is correct and good. They decide what is good and what is evil and lesser beings accept there choices.

You see, since God is omnipotent you may ask yourself why there is evil, would not God, an all powerful being just wipe it out completely? The answer is no and that is because evil is needed solely to define good.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by Helious
 


Omnipotence does not imply that all actions are good and correct, for that would imply an inability to cause evil, thus negating the true meaning of omnipotence; the power to do anything and everything.

And as perfection means complete and without flaw, the absence of evil could be construed as a flaw. A God without evil is incomplete: imperfect.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Glass
Satan is a boogeyman invented by the church to personify evil. Blaming Satan for the evil of the world only shifts the blame from the humans who perpetuate it.

God is everything, and perfect. Therefore he contains both good and evil.

Heres a piece of a post I wrote some time ago:


Some have asked, why would a perfect God create such an imperfect universe? But they define perfect in human terms; a perfect life of contentment with no suffering. What does perfection really mean? Complete. Flawless. And looking at the bigger picture, at the macroscopic universe around us, everything is perfect. Everything works with flawless effeciency, fine tuned laws of physics keep it that way. If there was even one flaw the universe would not sustain itself; its parts would not be held in balance as they are. Creation and destruction are all part of the process.


Source Post


The question is not whether the laws work for most Christians, but whether or not the laws he has in place now were the ones he wanted to dominate this world.

And this concept does not go far enough. It's not just that God and Evil reside in God, but that he's conquored/mastered both. There is no evidence that the knowledge in the difference was ever stripped away from us on the Cross, but that the control that knowledge has over us is broken--i.e. the back of sin and death is broken. It doens't have to hold authority over us, unless we allow it. the tree in the garden was called knowledge of, not mastery of. That takes maturity.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by DataWraith
 


Who said he has not interfered? You die, don't you?



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by WWu777
 


Logically it doesn't make sense for a perfect God to create an imperfect creation, so you're right, the modern monotheistic conception of God as all powerful and all perfect might be logically impossible. That's why I like polytheistic religions because they typically have gods with human flaws, take Zeus for instance, he was always sleeping around with human women and cheating on his wife. Flawed humans can relate to those kinds of gods but how can we be expected to relate to or have a meaningful relationship with a being that is all powerful. Even Jesus isn't relatable in the slightest because he never sinned and sprung back to life in three days.

I don't believe in any gods but I do see your point, a flawed god is more plausible than a perfect one. Star and Flag.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by WWu777
 





God does. It's called religion.... OK this can't be a one line response so I'm typing enough to make it go to two lines. There. I dood it. See mods? I obey the rules. I'm a good citizen.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by Hawking
 




Never listen to dead guys... If they were smart they'd not be dead.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by trailertrash
 


So, you're saying you are an idiot?


"But I'm not dead!"

You soon will be, just like everyone else.


reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Explain how it is logical, or at least how you concluded that the Universe reflects the nature of God.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by WWu777
 


Well if you're referring to God in Christianity then your thoughts are all wrong. If you catch up on the light reading involved with the Bible (Old AND New Testament) then you would see where the Old Testament shows how God was a real unforgiving badass but then he brought his Son into the world and became much much more forgiving. He was still the same existence in the Old Testament but he did not give people as many chances to follow his ways.... Either you did or you didn't.

With the new and current teachings we were given, God is an incredibly loving and understanding being. The reason sorrow exists in the world is because God allows it all to exist at the same time. Some people may not be able to give God a chance and listen to him without some sorrow in their life... he uses it as a tool and literally waits for you to come to him. It's like pruning a prized bush for a grand competition... some branches will be cut off to make a beautiful piece of art. If you are too conscious of this life, then you may not give enough time to slow down and seek God.

On the contrary, sometimes too much sorrow and being conscious of not having anything can also lead to not wanting to believe in God... but when you have next to nothing... when you have only your consciousness left is when God really moves in to build His relationship with you. This is when you are able to be humble and listen.

God is not in any way shape or form a malicious being. God is the reason you are alive and He provides you many things in your life whether you want to acknowledge that or not. We are all a part of Him, and we are His children. A father does not abuse his children, but He does discipline them. You learn more while going through rough times in your life and you get through them by becoming stronger. God allows evil to exist right now to teach by example.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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God the energy and Oneness Creation. The essence that is, the field that is, the divine cosmic intellegence, or source field. Is by Nature, defined as logical mind, divine spirit intellegence, the Oneness of all things interconnected in each and every blade of grass and molecule, to each other person, thing, animal, being experiencing life each in a different unique way, for god's eyes see all and therfore learns with each and everyone of us and we learn for ourself to become more like a divine spark and pure reflection of that source that exists within each and every living being and event, as it is in all things including all time and everything from that perspective merges into One Moment, in this One Moment all is; through gods eyes, seen as Perfection, becuase ALL things within source is Perfect allready, perfecting itself, Perfecting itself, Endlessly moving towards perfection, it is in truth allready in perfection for the simple fact that all is One Perfect Divine Being, learning and experiencing itself through connections and projections and reflections of Self, that truth, that all is the Self, all is You, and you are all. You then move into a galactic conciousness, God consciousness. Unconditional love, which premeates this entire creation, to remember who you are, that you are soul not body.

From God's perspective all is perfect allready as it is. We are living within the Body of God, everything that we experience, good or bad, is just an experience and lacks either quality, but only that life is a consantly changing quicksand of moments to moments passing by through time. But time is all One Moment happening right now. Thats why they say people are waking up, they mean their soul is starting to regconize itself. And since we are all souls connected, one thing that happens to one of us, happens to all of us, its there for everyone to access. And I know I have experience just so much within my short time on earth, the pain and love that I have given for nothing in return it seems, has mushed my heart, and enlightened my soul to such depth of my soul mere spoken words could never do justice, to this I owe a great debt and I hold also a great joy and honor with the earth. Its time we start to AGAIN remember to Honor this Precious Earth and remember also she is a real divine being, going through all the hurts and pains that each and every one of has has ever experienced. To be able just Give and give and give without such as a thought, she is magnificient, she is magical, she is creation, she is you.
edit on 18-8-2011 by DarkCyrus because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:01 AM
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Before I say anything let me say I am an agnostic atheist, who sometimes holds the Alien Astronaut theory (More specifically the idea we were created as a slave race) in high esteem.

To me, the god of the Abrahamic Religions; Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism.
I could go into why I believe so, but I shall not. All that is important is I believe as such.

I said I hold the Alien Astronaut Theory in high esteem, and a while back I was doing some research on the Sumerian god Enki. It was suggested that Enki shows very similar traits to the fallen Angel, the lucifer of Christianity (Not to be confused with Satan, they are different entities). And in many ways he did. I would count those ways, but it is very unimportant in what I wish to discuss.

This led me to do some research into Satanism, I knew there was a difference between the two, Lucifer and Satan, but I had never heard of a belief system that differentiated between the two entities, and worshipped Lucifer. I later found out there was a term for such a belief system, Luciferianinism, but before that I was instilled with an idea. What if a non perfect or possibly malevolent god controlled this world.

Which finally brings me to what I wish to discuss. Gnosticism.
I will explain briefly of what gnosticism is, mostly using mostly Christain terms, as I assume more people are familiar with these idea's and concepts. I fully encourage the looking into of Gnosticism on ones own.

Gnosticism says that a God like being does exist. He is perfect and created heaven but is not the ruler of this earth.
God created the Angels, they are not perfect though, and one of them created and rules the earth.
This being is termed Demiurge. Meaning 'false god'
There are many Gnostic beliefs however.

Some say that the Demiurge is working on behalf of God and created our universe.
Others say that the Demiurge sought to be like god and control heaven. Some mention a war in heaven, other don't. Either way, being unable to take gods place as ruler of heaven he decided to create his own heaven, creating our universe.
And a belief that I run into more often than not when looking into Gnosticism, is this. The Demiurge does not know of god, and decided one day to create our universe.


But all maintain, whatever reason he had for creating our universe, he was not perfect and thus created an imperfect universe.

I strongly recommend the reading of the book on this site (Its free to download): www.theforbiddenreligion.com...
It goes in depth into the idea of gnosticism.
The author also delves deep into his own theory on this subject.

The general theory is that the Demiurge is Satan. He trapped the spirits of heaven within human bodies, and though many reincarnations he hopes to break the spirits will, thus causing them to join his army. Simply put we are the angels of heaven, trapped within an impure universe. Through many reincarnations he hopes to break our will and force us to join him on his quest to become ruler of heaven.
That all religions are a tool he uses to try to get us to surrender.
The only way to return to heaven, is to deny the Demiurge, the god we know, and his creation.

Its a cool idea, and it is the belief system I would pick, if I had to choose one where there was a being in control of our universe.

In the end I am maintain lack of belief in any god. I am not opposed to the idea of one existing, I just don't believe in them.


edit on 18-8-2011 by FreezingVoid because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by patternfinder

Originally posted by PAPARAYG
reply to post by TheLoneArcher
 

If you were a software programmer and made a good living creating new interactive games, guess who makes the rules of each game? God, the author, creator, designer, programmer, of our universe and all life, made all the rules under which we operate this interactive game we call "our lives". Would it make sense to you if God created rules that made Him a bad guy? Would that be a sane thing to do? All of the bad news in the world is a result of mankind's failures, not God's.



you are on the right track....but, just one thing to add...if God programmed our reality and there are things that would make him look like a bad guy, just like parents sometimes look like the bad guy to their children, then it was part of the program and he programmed these things in....


An unruly child also looks at a strict parent as bad, but does that mean the parent is evil?



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 02:04 AM
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reply to post by Hawking
 


Which God ?

I'm so amazed nobody asked that question yet, that I had to ask it myself.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


It its fairly well known, that when someone says "God", they are speaking of the Judeo Christian god.They are the only ones pompous enough to give their god the name "God". I think I was told that there were over 10000 names for their god. And yet they don't give him one of those...

At the very least I have never heard of a religion without ties to Judeo Christianianity that refers to the supreme being as 'God'

And I wonder if god existed, does he find it offensive? The same way a women might find it offensive when you refer to her as "Women", or a boy might get offended when you call him "Boy". Or is it used not as much to describe the nature but used as a form of title? The way we might call a professor, "Professor", or the president, "President."



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:12 PM
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I've seen a few of these kinds of threads, and the OP seems to suggest it too, it does seem like the Judeo-Christian God is the one complained about.

I see two interesting things. First, that the OP has come "out" with his feelings about this god, gingerly mentioning that he/she does not want to be "blasphemous", BUT (big rant)...

So, my congratulations to the OP, not everyone gets to the point where they can do this.

Second, it looks like the usual suspects arriving to "defend" this god, with Christians leading the pack, perhaps correctly assuming that it was indeed their god that was under attack.

To the Defenders, you are under a spell, IMO, one that the OP is attempting to break loose from. Frankly, the Judeo-Christian god has been "defended" for thousands of years, without true success. Sure, there is considerable theology that has developed, elaborate systems of reasoning, that seem to help keep the beliefs going, in spite of common sense, but then, there is always common sense, and the OP is one more proof that such a thing isn't completely useless.

I tend to agree with some Christian characterizations of their deity, for example, the Christian god is best thought of as a "Father", and people are his "children". Actually, very apropos!

So let's add some common sense now. This "Father" is quite the authority figure in the family. His children are perhaps "loved", but they seemingly have much to fear!

Let's call him "Papa". Papa loves his children so much! THIS is why we must all suffer! It's not because he's mean, but his wisdom, and love, require a stern approach to such unruly children, as we most assuredly are.

Yes, Papa doesn't exactly spare the rod, but his children love him anyway! When Papa gets carried away in his wrath, every now and again, one of his kids DIES from his punishment. Well, it's not Papa's fault! It's US, we are so wicked! A loving father should punish, and now and again, it can get serious!

At some point, some thinking Christians may recall something Jesus once said, about good trees bearing good fruit, and they might sincerely wonder about their sick victim mentality. They tell themselves everyday that Papa loves them, but sometimes they do feel a bit like the abused child, who defends his father, even though the whole world can see that his father is an animal. Or the abused wife, who clings to her husband, in spite of all. In fact, this we know, many of these abused women will actually DIE, rather than see the reality of the beast that "loves" (with his fists).

In short, the typical religionist mindset (this includes Muslims and others too of course), their mindset is a very UNHEALTHY one.

It would seem that the "fruit" of being the child, and clinging to the abusive father, is not such a good one. These poor folks are actually SICK, in an objective sense. They are thus vulnerable to similar "hierarchical" abuse, since their entire paradigm has already predisposed them to this (dangerous) vulnerability.

Small wonder that they kill so easily, and with such little provocation! It takes SO little. Remind the children that it is their DUTY, to march on the enemy. The Pope has pronounced a Holy War! The Prophet would certainly approve of this jihad!

The "children" already submit to "authority", of the most despotic kind, so why not have the State run rough-shod over such a pathetic lot as well?

In fact, many have come to the sober conclusion that this kind of "childish" religion serves the State almost too perfectly, almost suggesting that some PTB at some point, who get the most mileage out of such an arrangement, perhaps created these inhuman servile religions to begin with.

Our ancestors, thousands of years ago, the Greeks, wrote about these very things. It was explained clearly that religion is there to serve the rulers.

By all appearances, such will it ever will be.

S & F, and my best wishes to the OP. The best years still to come, now that you have seen the obvious truth.

JR



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by FreezingVoid
reply to post by randyvs
 


It its fairly well known, that when someone says "God", they are speaking of the Judeo Christian god.They are the only ones pompous enough to give their god the name "God". I think I was told that there were over 10000 names for their god. And yet they don't give him one of those...

At the very least I have never heard of a religion without ties to Judeo Christianianity that refers to the supreme being as 'God'

And I wonder if god existed, does he find it offensive? The same way a women might find it offensive when you refer to her as "Women", or a boy might get offended when you call him "Boy". Or is it used not as much to describe the nature but used as a form of title? The way we might call a professor, "Professor", or the president, "President."


Oh! yeah ! Like when Christ refered to his Mother as" woman " ? I always thought it might be for some really pompuos reason, like preventing his name from being taken in vain. Pompous I know. Anyway, if God dosn't exist ?
What causes your wonderment ?

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)


JR




In fact, many have come to the sober conclusion that this kind of "childish" religion serves the State almost too perfectly, almost suggesting that some PTB at some point, who get the most mileage out of such an arrangement, perhaps created these inhuman servile religions to begin with.


Hey I agree. Religion being of man and Christ being of " The Father" . Papa ? uhah! So God wears a wife beater ? Is that what you're trying to communicate and lead astray with ? Any one who accepts your assessment,
of a Father, trying to prevent his chidren, from playing on the tracks ? Deserves to be lead astray . But you know what ? That's my opinion. Not the Fathers.




edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



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