France and Germany Propose Unified European Government

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

No, but I'm going to order it anyway. In the meantime I am looking around for any similar-themed essays online I can find. Anyone you recommend?

Dont know any I just read this book and kept it since, for such a small book it delivers a powerful message.

reply to post by Misterlondon


I understand what you are saying and believe me I know my history but I fail to see why a united europe is a bad thing. You can still keep local cultures and identities while belong to a larger community. Immigrants do it all the time when they come to north america or anywhere else for that matter. Like I said the borders of the old countries will still be known to everone. The cultures don't change. The people wont change. Just the borders. They changed before as you stated" why not another time? I stilll don't see anything nefarious behind this.

Whats the worst that can happen. The world already has a whole lot of hell in store for it. Changin borders will not make any difference. I for one would like to see the entire planet free of borders and foolish govts that are no better than kindergarden kids fighting over who gets to play in the sandbox.

reply to post by JennaDarling


I think one problem with the EU is one of PR. It needs a definite ideological identity that its supporters can sort of identify it with. For me it would be the modern democratic secular liberal tradition, but all we ever hear about it here in England is how silly men in Brussels want to ban curved bananas and rubbish like that. I think the EU parliament really needs a Max Clifford or Aleister Campbell to bring the good points more to the fore.

All we get now is anti-EU propaganda from the reactionary Tory press.

reply to post by metaldemon2000


I agree. A united Europe is good, as long as it is federal with a high degree of internal autonomy for the regions. I think the EU Parliament should also have a specific cabinet whom we can all automatically identify, and call to account. It's not yet democratic enough to fully unify us all tomorrow, but in 10 years maybe.

Originally posted by metaldemon2000
reply to post by Misterlondon

 

I understand what you are saying and believe me I know my history but I fail to see why a united europe is a bad thing. You can still keep local cultures and identities while belong to a larger community. Immigrants do it all the time when they come to north america or anywhere else for that matter. Like I said the borders of the old countries will still be known to everone. The cultures don't change. The people wont change. Just the borders. They changed before as you stated" why not another time? I stilll don't see anything nefarious behind this.

Whats the worst that can happen. The world already has a whole lot of hell in store for it. Changin borders will not make any difference. I for one would like to see the entire planet free of borders and foolish govts that are no better than kindergarden kids fighting over who gets to play in the sandbox.

Cultures DO change, through generations. depending on how the children are brought up.

It will take a couple of generations to remove the hatred in Northern Ireland, but it will change, and in fact is already with the new children growing up in a different environment, you will always get the bitter hot heads that wont change, but they will be a minority.

reply to post by JennaDarling


It is, of course, the cultures that cannot adapt and change that eventually die out. You said earlier that you like languages, well consider the disintegration of Latin (very strict and rigid) into the modern Romance languages (some of the most fluid and expressive on earth). I think the same is true of cultures - adapt and thrive or stay rigid and die.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

It is, of course, the cultures that cannot adapt and change that eventually die out. You said earlier that you like languages, well consider the disintegration of Latin (very strict and rigid) into the modern Romance languages (some of the most fluid and expressive on earth). I think the same is true of cultures - adapt and thrive or stay rigid and die.

Languages migrate, languages adopt, cultures migrate, cultures adopt.

That is a fact of life, like it or not, it happens, everywhere. It is not a European thing, what makes europe so rich is the fact that it has a huge diverse background, also what drove to to war, also what is driving it to peace.

Britain was in the worst position for culture and languages in europe, it was isolated in an ISLAND, most european border other countries, many europeans know 2 maybe 3 or more languages, some european countries have 2 offical national languages , sometimes more.

I think that also makes it harder for Brits to accept a lot of europeans culturally, through ignorance or fear mostly, they have been a victim of their own geography. Ironic since the British Empire was one of the largest empires on the planet and converting other cultures / countries / languages.

THE SUN.

Its a COMIC, not a newspaper.

Originally posted by 10987654321
THE SUN.

Its a COMIC, not a newsapaper.

WIth boobies.

reply to post by JennaDarling

As I said just now, I think the problem here is that we have a lot of right wing media that feed us a lot of anti-Europe propogana. Unfortunately the English education doesn't really teach people to think for themselves and so there is also a lot of ignorance here.

reply to post by majesticgent

Even if that were to be true. It wouldn't last long. Europe think it has debt problems now. Imagine the debt that would be accumulated keeping that war machine going. Look how much the US spends in defense. That's the main reason why the U.S. is $40 trillion in debt.

The difference is the U.S have spent all that trying to control the world through having a vast military all around the planet.. Europe's army would be primarily to protect itself, world domination would take a different tactic.. Also countries in europe have been colonizing the world for centuries. the overseas territories and special relationships of countries like England, spain, france, portugal and denmark to name but a few.. A state of Europe would actually cover every single part of the globe.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

As I said just now, I think the problem here is that we have a lot of right wing media that feed us a lot of anti-Europe propogana. Unfortunately the English education doesn't really teach people to think for themselves and so there is also a lot of ignorance here.

Turn off the TV. I rarely watch TV.

If there is big news, I hear about it fast, it travels.

Education well yeah, thats another thing, Baltic and European education seems to bring out smarter people, at least the people I worked with, extremely smart, in math and sciences. Britain, well yeah lol. Not on the same level.

reply to post by JennaDarling


Viz was a comic with (sometimes) boobies, but was a far superior source of political analysis and current affairs. To call the Sun a comic is to insult comics; to call its customers "readers" is to not know what reading is.

reply to post by JennaDarling

I agree, and very rarely watch TV, but unfortunately most Britons seem hypnotised by its piercing glare and just can't pull themselves away from the damn thing! Sometimes living in this country can be quite frustrating, but I'm not ready to give up just yet.

This is old news. Very old. At least a couple thousand years. Predicted in the bible. With bible prophecy happening on a daily basis it amazes me people still insist the bible is BS.

It also states that Britian will NOT be a part of a European super state. It may well start out as a member but will either leave or be kicked out.

And the glue that holds all these disparate peoples and nations together. The one thing common to virtually all Europe - Catholicism. The Vatican will have a very large hand (a whip hand) in this predicted European Superstate.

Originally posted by triune
This is old news. Very old. At least a couple thousand years. Predicted in the bible. With bible prophecy happening on a daily basis it amazes me people still insist the bible is BS.

It also states that Britian will NOT be a part of a European super state. It may well start out as a member but will either leave or be kicked out.

And the glue that holds all these disparate peoples and nations together. The one thing common to virtually all Europe - Catholicism. The Vatican will have a very large hand (a whip hand) in this predicted European Superstate.

The Nordic Union of Scandinavian countries is prodistant, Lutharian. Yes they have their own union too

Religon is diluted and has been diluted the past couple of generations. It may say on paper people are religeon A or B, but are they really? A lot are not, especially given the recent bad press for the Vatican; I don't think that is an issue.

For gods sakes lol ( I am not religous ), these people now are trying to catch up with modern society, by now saying it is ok to worship Aliens. lol

What's next? A breakdancing pope?

reply to post by triune

Catholicism is only a big deal in southern Europe. Most of eastern Europe is Orthodox, most of northern Europe is protestant. Thankfully most western Europeans have woken up and realised what a load of hokum religion is.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by triune

 

Catholicism is only a big deal in southern Europe. Most of eastern Europe is Orthodox, most of northern Europe is protestant. Thankfully most western Europeans have woken up and realised what a load of hokum religion is.

It is only in places like Ireland and Northern Ireland where catholic schools brainwash their children, and the vatican sinks money into properties and land over there for manipulation.

Even there there was a huge backlash against the vatican, remember that 2 billion demand for money in settlement?

Also, remember when it was published on line explaining how catholics can break free of the church and deregister? The vatican changed that loophole lol people where deregistering in DROVES.

reply to post by JennaDarling


True, if western Europe has a mafia, it ain't La Cosa Nostra, it's the Vatican.
With the C of E its the opposite - most people want membership for cultural identity reasons, but don't want all the god stuff

reply to post by metaldemon2000

but I fail to see why a united europe is a bad thing.

it wouldn't be a bad thing and would probably save it.. in an ideal world, in the right hands and with the correct guidance it would be a superpower..
But i cant see some of these nations relinquishing complete power of their countries to a central government, without unrest and conflict.
although the EU has been slowly gaining control and gobbling up nations for years now, so it has a real possibility of happening in the future..