France and Germany Propose Unified European Government

reply to post by majesticgent


I think the advantages are thing like freedom of movement, freedom of trade and things like that. I also think that in this century it will be much harder for small countries like Britain and the Netherlands, and so on, to be able to compete in the world against emerging giants like India or China. We need a fully united front.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

I don't dispute what you say, but I still feel that Western Europe is a distinct historical and cultural block of its own. The Turks, Hungarians, Slavs and Greeks should form a union of their own.

edit on 16/8/11 by NocturnalPhantom because: (no reason given)

I teach myself languages and cultures, I travel often in europe and live all around europe.

Their culture should be preserved, yes, but eventually cultures will be diluted due to migrations and so on.. that is a fact, but that is a seperaete thread. However, politically Europe was the best thing that happend to them, it give them a future of peace and hope, which is what they needed.

I have no problems with eastern european and baltic countries joining, infact I welcome it, I would love to see Russia join too lol.

The nicest peopel I havee ever met are europeans, Northern, central and eastern, russian and asian, the worst people I have met, are brits and americans. Sorry lol but that is from my experiences.

Europe has SAVED countries from a worse fate, it has given peace in europe, yes, it has helped businsesses by opening new markets, it has helped people, by allowign freedom of travel and work and live. it has upheld many human rights and privacy rights that where trampeled on by local governments (even the UK did this to their own people yes, its been in newspapers) I use those freedoms myself, I love it and would not give it up for the world.

As long as individual states retain powers of local governance cultures can be diverse yet coexist; all Europeans share a common history over several thousand years, what is important isn't potato, potatoe but rather the ideals and beliefs that each nation share that must be made legally binding over all nations in Europe, this will prevent conflict, prevent consolidation of power like in Russia at the moment and prevent discord .

reply to post by JennaDarling

Fair enough, I too am fascinated by many European languages and cultures. What worries me about jumping into bed with Eastern Europe is the high level political corruption, and the seemingly mainstream involvement of organised crime and extreme right wing fascist groups. Just look at the disgusting levels of homophobia and racism there, even in mainstream governments. If they can purge themselves politically of this in the future, then yes, let's welcome them. Until then, let's keep them at an arms length.

We have developed a strong liberal secular tradition in modern Western Europe. I'm not too keen to welcome in those who would seek to destroy it.

And don't worry, some of the worst, arrogant people I've met have also been fellow Brits.

France can claims all it wants. It is in deep sh*t with their own pile of debts. Smoke and mirrors is what France needs now to keep up the illusion of EU wealth.

Modern Germany is more pragmatic and comprehends reality, and have no wish to lie as its predecessor gov- NAZIs did..

Europe is a dead duck if it continues with such delulsions of unity, of a far more diverse cultural people on Earth than any other nation that is bonded by common traits such as religion or shared history as a nation state. In the far future, perhaps an unity one day with an enlightened mankind, but certainly NOT TODAY.

Fact is, whatever the French premier had said, STILL had not resolve the CRITICAL issue of the day - sovereign debts exploding now and the house of cards propping up of the casino stock exchange by ECB and european elites, but had only pacified europeans with fortune telling of a non-existant europe unity today.

May free europeans not be lulled anymore, and make that change out of debt bondage, once and for all, then to suffer the pain of watching their future generations encasts in chains. Small european states are not like mineral resource and human capital rich nations as found in certain parts of Asia, Australian continent, or USA. They can barely survive on their own GDP. To pay debts amounting more than that GDP is to unconscionably and inhumanely flog those small states citizenery to serve that debt,.as the english will start to feel that pain next year when the austerity drive sticks in.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

Fair enough, I too am fascinated by many European languages and cultures. What worries me about jumping into bed with Eastern Europe is the high level political corruption, and the seemingly mainstream involvement of organised crime and extreme right wing fascist groups. Just look at the disgusting levels of homophobia and racism there, even in mainstream governments. If they can purge themselves politically of this in the future, then yes, let's welcome them. Until then, let's keep them at an arms length.

We have developed a strong liberal secular tradition in modern Western Europe. I'm not too keen to welcome in those who would seek to destroy it.

The UK can be just as corrupt. There is much organised crime in the UK, just look at the criminals in power in Northern Ireland local government, just look at the riots recently, London has a huge history of organised crime.

Look at all the politican expenses corruptions in the UK.

reply to post by JennaDarling


There is corruption and so on here, but it is not at the same level in my view. Northern Ireland is certainly full of it, but that's a very specific set of issues.

reply to post by majesticgent


So as long as you aren't lazy or a troublemaker you have nothing to worry about? Got it. So what's the problem???? Oh and im actually a big fan of de population on a large scale.

Here's my reasons.

A good chunks of the population who don't wantbto work and keep churning out new babies every few years for a welfare check are useless and a waste of resources.
A good majority of the population are ignorant and don't give a Damn about anyone but themselves.
there aren't enough jobs for everyone on the planet currently.
These are just some reasons. I have more. Keep in mind I am not racist. Anyone can be a useless idiot regardless of race.

The way I see it either we start colonizing other planets soon or else our time is up, we are too big for our own good.

Those nwo rules you posted. Lots of talk about fairness and love, I fail to see where the boogyman is hiding in all this. Oh and taxes??? Im pretty sure with world govt there would be a new system of money. Then again what costs more a few dollars or the eventual distruction of our race due.to depleted resources or another world war?

You cannot convince me that world govt is a bad thing. You mean to tell me that eventually when we start exploring space and we meet another space faring race we have to.negotiate with them using the same systems of govt we huge now? You know because they would love the fact that we still engage im primitive tribal warfare right?

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

There is corruption and so on here, but it is not at the same level in my view. Northern Ireland is certainly full of it, but that's a very specific set of issues.

edit on 16/8/11 by NocturnalPhantom because: (no reason given)

It is not a specific set of issues, it is crime, organised, and also connected to politics at a HIGH level. CRIME is CRIME, they are cartels. There is nothing special about it.

I was plundering through my library and I have a book I remember reading about Europe.

Here is a link to it.. It is a small book but worth a read..

markleonard.net...

Whether you hate or like Europe, I strongly recommend reading this small book.

Just look at Orginizacia in Russia. London firms do not penetrate national government in the UK anywhere near the same extent as the gangsters in Russia.

reply to post by JennaDarling

I will give it a read as you suggest. I am aware that many paramilitaries in N Ireland have gone into crime, but wasn't that our fault in the first place for not reaching a better political solution, and a lot sooner in the day. I don't think Ireland should have been kept divided in the first place. But I hardly think this compares to some of the horrors still going on in parts of Eastern Europe.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

I will give it a read as you suggest. I am aware that many paramilitaries in N Ireland have gone into crime, but wasn't that our fault in the first place for not reaching a better political solution, and a lot sooner in the day. I don't think Ireland should have been kept divided in the first place. But I hardly think this compares to some of the horrors still going on in parts of Eastern Europe.

They didnt just go into crime, they ALWAYS where in it. I am not blaming anybody, but we all know Westminster chereographed the entire process we all know the government DOES negociate and conceed to terrorists even though they deny it and we all know the MLA's are knee deep in crime.

reply to post by JennaDarling

And I am not disagreeing with you on that. But I don't see why the nations of Western Europe should want a union with a load of Eastern nations that can at times be just as bad as the situation in Ulster. I am aware that we are far from perfect, but the Eastern nations should at least come to a same level as our own mainstream societies before we jump into bed with them. I don't want a European parliament where half the members are neo-nazi fascists and racists like in Russia and elsewhere.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling
[more
And I am not disagreeing with you on that. But I don't see why the nations of Western Europe should want a union with a load of Eastern nations that can at times be just as bad as the situation in Ulster. I am aware that we are far from perfect, but the Eastern nations should at least come to a same level as our own mainstream societies before we jump into bed with them. I don't want a European parliament where half the members are neo-nazi fascists and racists like in Russia and elsewhere.

But getting them in europe will bring change to those countries.

Yes it is hard in europe financially for many and jobs but so is life, anywhere, its hard, that is no reason to attack it. Fix it, stop blaming it.

It is the same cries from Americans and the UN, whine moan gurn.

Instead of crying about it, work with it and fix it.

The alternative is, status quo of self destruction and fighting.

The sooner we work together the better frankly. No more of this who has the bigger stick or balls.


I will try an anology here..

When it comes to Winter in Britain, and SNOW...
Brits FEAR snow.. the country comes to a halt..

I have lived in -30 centigrade winters with knee deep snow, I don't fear snow.

I have been in the UK last winter, people PANIC on the roads, they sit on the edge of their seats in FEAR. I lol when a brit thinks they should RUSH up a hill in snow, Speed up speed up! because if you stop, you cant move again

I simply embrace the snow, I proved them wrong, even without winter grade typres, all weathers I think they where (nuts there still use summers in winter, go figure). I said simply, as long as you have power to your wheels you are in control.

I simply drove up a hill slowly, power to the wheels, i even slowed down, they went your gona get stuck !!! i said nope, I got up, i even showed look im starting to slide a little turning into a drive, they panic, i said no problem, in control and drive in fine.

Seriously, STOP FEARING it. Embrace and work with it.

reply to post by JennaDarling

I'm gonna star you for that post. I think ultimately you are right. Bringing them into the fold will bring them under our influence more than just critisizing them from the outside.

In other words I think you were right and I change my mind. A strong Europe can bring a level of prosperity and security that can hopefully negate the need for such extremes. At least I think that's what you're basically saying. If so, then I genuinely thank you for putting me right.

reply to post by metaldemon2000

Why can't you compare europe to the states? The US was founded by european settlers was it not.

no offense to you, but you clearly do not understand or know anything about European history.
Countries in Europe have been developing their civilisations for thousands of years, they have their own unique cultures, have been fighting battles over land, borders constantly changing, fierce rivalry between each other for a long time (i mean no offense to any Americans) before the U.S was even founded.

You cannot compare a newly formed country (in comparison) and the ideas, civilized society and culture that were instilled from the start, to a continent of various nations developing over thousands of years, from barbarians to where they all are today... its actually quite ignorant to do so..

a better way for you to look at, is to think of all the countries in north and south America join together and form one big country under one goverment.. then you will know how ridiculous the comparison is..

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

I'm gonna star you for that post. I think ultimately you are right. Bringing them into the fold will bring them under our influence more than just critisizing them from the outside.

In other words I think you were right and I change my mind. A strong Europe can bring a level of prosperity and security that can hopefully negate the need for such extremes. At least I think that's what you're basically saying. If so, then I genuinely thank you for putting me right.

that is the point of Europe. That little book even summarised the power Europe has in changing those countries.

Europe is VERY powerful, the most powerful tool they have, is not having anything to do with those countries, it puts the fear of god into those countries, those countries want to be part of europe, they ignore it at their pearl.

Ideology is a VERY powerful tool

Dreams, goals, visions, hopes.

reply to post by JennaDarling


I am about to read it now, so thank you for posting that too.

Originally posted by NocturnalPhantom
reply to post by JennaDarling

 

I am about to read it now, so thank you for posting that too.

Amazon don't deliver that fast, neither to bookdepository lol

reply to post by JennaDarling


No, but I'm going to order it anyway. In the meantime I am looking around for any similar-themed essays online I can find. Anyone you recommend?