the T50 flys

The US has a new threat to it's air superiority it is the Russian T50 stealth fighter abcnews.go.com... from the link

A new Russian twin-engine jet fighter T-50 flies over Zhukovsky airfield as it takes part in MAKS-2011, the International Aviation and Space Show, in Zhukovsky, outside Moscow, Russia, Aug. 13, 201

as to the word on the F22 and F35 still grounded and this says it all from the link

The T-50, along with China's secretive stealth J-20 fighter, represents the next generation air-power challenge to America's own stealth F-22 Raptor and F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. The U.S. jets are currently the most advanced aircraft on the planet -- but the entire U.S. Air Force fleet of next-gen fighters, representing around 200 planes and billions of dollars, has been grounded due to separate technical problems.

they are useless if they can not fly, if war was to break out the J20 and the T 50 would be the ones to win the air, that is if they are in numbers and i do not think they are nor combat ready the T50 might be the J20???? any ones guess.

reply to post by bekod


The Russian PAK FA or T-50 as you call it is nothing new to the skies, it made it's first flight waaaaay back in 2010, and is not planned for actual production until at least 2015 at the earliest.

I think you're a bit too hooked on "doomsday" scenario's for the US. If a war were to break out now, the Chinese nor Russians would have a combat capable T-50 or J-20 aircraft on hand to counter with the US's able F-18's and F-15's.

It is important to add, it's not a "new threat." It's something that the US has been aware of for years.

Both the PAK FA, and the J-20 fall short of the United State's current fifth generation technology by at least a comprable standpoint as well.

reply to post by Shugo
yes i did make its first flight back then as a demo not as an fully op air craft as this is, and it might be in mass production as early as 2013 fro the link say 2014, they are always a year early just to keep us, US on it's toes from the link

The Sukhoi T-50, also known as the PAK FA, made its public debut at the MAKS-2011 air show near Moscow Tuesday where Russian air force commander-in-chief Gen. Alexander Zelin said the plane is expected to enter mass production as early as 2014, according to Russian state news RIA Novosti.

reminds me of teh F23 www.aviastar.org...

reply to post by Shugo
i do take notice on this statement, we have i read this before? oh ya ww2 history for page 2 of the link

"The People's Liberation Army has no ability, and even more than that, has no intention, to challenge America's territory and global military advantage, and does not have any aims to pursue military hegemony in the region," Rear-Admiral Yang Yi wrote in the overseas edition of the People's Daily in January.

Originally posted by bekod
yes i did make its first flight back then as a demo not as an fully op air craft as this is

Um, there's no difference between the demo and what we see now, other than some bugs worked out and the avionics tuned up...

and it might be in mass production as early as 2013 fro the link say 2014, they are always a year early just to keep us, US on it's toes from the link

I'm sorry, but they are not "always a year early just to keep the US on it's toes." In fact, most production calls are typically pushed back due to lack of funding, budget cutting, and other unforseen circumstances. There's a reason that the official reports still say at least 2015, and this is why.

reply to post by Shugo
we shall see if 2012 does not get us lol, you do know the history of the mig 15, the t 34 and the t72 thought to be on paper till they made eyes open, the cold war is over but the tech war goes on. and to make the point of "they are a head of the game" here is the Su35 www.defenseindustrydaily.com...

reply to post by bekod


And unfortunately the Tech War costs a bit more than some countries can afford, even the US lately. Russia's only wildcard during the Cold War was the Soviet Union, which collapsed, and thus the war ended shortly thereafter because it was bleeding money, let alone hemoraging it.

Russia has no means to engage in a war of any kind right now, nor does countries like Germany, France, or any of the like, because they are still battered from both World War II and the Cold War.

The F-22, and the F-35 are not the only wildcards in the United State's back room either. What about the F/A-XX Project set to have a scale model in 2017? A Sixth Generation aircraft that's projected to be in production by 2025?

You may like to think about playing safer than sorry, but when you're dealing in the world economy like this, with information such as this, the worst case scenario is not the right one.

reply to post by Shugo
how true we can talk all we want but it does come down the $$$ factor, I am a "what if" not a will be, all we can do is look at the past to keep from making the same mistakes, under estimating what the other side can do, would do if push comes to shove.

reply to post by bekod


That's fine, but don't let that cause you to spread information that isn't true. Speculation is one thing, libel and false rumors are another. When dealing with things such as aviation, and defense budgeting especially. That can be the difference between causing panic, and keeping peace.

The things I've presented here are core reasons as to why things can not progress as quickly as they've been made out to be. There's no money, everyone is broke, China is broke, Russia is broke. The US is broke too. The reality of the J-20 and T-50 going into production by 2017, is as realistic as the F/A-XX going mass production in 2025. They say that, but it's simply unrealistic when you add everything that is more than just a "possability" to go wrong.

looks like a F-22 Raptor knockoff
just sayin,

I wonder if it has the same thought controled flight system the US version has.

I'm a big fan of the Eurofighter. Last I checked (at least at the NATO wargames) the Eurofighter dominated against the most common warplanes out there (F-15, F-16, SU30).
It's radar-jamming capabilities and maneuverability were unmatched.
Since the F-22 and the T-50 are not in production yet, I wouldn't really compare them as I'm sure the Eurofighter will go through revamps and improvements when they finally come into production.

reply to post by Konstantinos


Actually the Typhoon will likely see either a newer more modified version soon, or have a termination date slapped on it, as it can not stand up to the fifth generation aircraft. There was actually a discussion about this somewhere, will need to dig around and see if I can find it, but Eurofighter (the company) is in the thought-process stages of a new aircraft to replace the Typhoon.

I would be interested to know though, if the wargames incorporated Super Hornets, or not though, as I was under the impression that they only used the F/A-18D models?

Bekod, the Sukhoi T-50 at MAKS is not a production standard aircraft, it is one of the same two prototypes we were shown last year. It is engaged on a lengthy flight test and development programme, as is essential for any new fighter and it is *impossible* for a modern fighter to progress from first flight to anything like production standard in one year.

Also, from a technical standpoint, the J-20, while very Interesting and a big step forward for China, trails a long way behind the T-50, which itself doesn't trail the F-22 by as much as some people like to think. IMHO of course

As for Eurofighters future plans, I'm all ears, though if they are thinking about it, nothing will fly for 20 years.

reply to post by waynos


Kudo's for the reply waynos!
Nice to see you around still too by the way buddy.

I will definately dig and see if I can find where I found that information, it may also have been me blending articles together, but I could've sworn. Will keep you posted though!

reply to post by Shugo


Yeah, cheers!

I am sure there must be some ideas floating about, but I wonder how Eurofighter would implement any new project given that EADS is now a combined international company that includes two of the member nations. I remember that the original plan was for the Typhoon to be built by Panavia after the Tornado, but that came to nought.

We have more combat ready UCAV's ready to go out autonomously and kill enemy fighters....

Than China or Russia have 5th Generation fighters. Unmanned self flying UCAV's will be like bats sent out to go and feed....impossible to see on your radar...uses little fuel...and will take you out before you even deploy counter measures.


UCAV's are the new thing. Cheaper Warfare.

Originally posted by Pervius
We have more combat ready UCAV's ready to go out autonomously and kill enemy fighters....

And how, prey, do you suppose they achieve this with today's relatively slow flying prop driven UCAVs with their long, slender wings, which are the only ones operational?

I don't think that *any* fighter aircraft have anything to be too frightened of there.

If you are thinking about the Phantom Ray/Taranis/Neuron style UCAV, they are all many years away from being "combat ready" and even they are not designed to take on fighters, but to avoid them and drop bombs on ground targets. You do know that, right?

reply to post by waynos


That would be my thoughts too.
It seems that I can't locate anything about the Typhoon being outphased. The only info I have is how it stacks against the F-35 and F-22's, but no information on a replacement, other than some minor modifications that are unrelated to either aircraft. Must have misinterperated the article, or it never existed! My bad.

However, it would not surprise me to see modifications to the system in the near future. I would safely assume that the function of the Typhoon, safe for the fact that it is not carrier based, is similar to the function of the Super Hornet. Note I say SIMILAR.

If that is the case, then it would not be the Eurofighter Program that you'd want to watch for but whatever rolls out from BAE!

reply to post by Shugo


I read an article a while ago that mentioned updates to the Typhoon, some of which are already in testing, but I've not seen anything about a separate follow on programme, though there will almost certainly be such work.

With a follow on aircraft they will have to determine whether a manned fighter will still be needed in the timeframe (I believe the answer to that is yes) and whether they can make something either better than, or different enough from, the F-35 for it to be worthwhile.

This though echoes the same concerns before Typhoon and Rafale were built, when it was said that any new European jet wasn't worth pursuing unless it was going to be better than the F-18L, Which was much fancied by the RAF at the time, and they both are. comfortably.

And of course there's cost, which may offer a clue as to where BAE's 'Replica' affordable stealth fighter project may one day lead.

Originally posted by Talltexxxan
looks like a F-22 Raptor knockoff
just sayin,

I wonder if it has the same thought controled flight system the US version has.

edit on 16-8-2011 by Talltexxxan because: (no reason given)

Doesn't look like a Raptor to me. Just sayin

Raptor uses a "thought controled flight system"? Is that supposed to mean that this makes the Raptor a more capable fighter when the pilot's head has never been more overloaded with information?