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Ron Paul's amnesty with an asterisk

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posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
OP... Honestly man... you couldn't have picked a worse source if you tried...

I mean you might as well have picked weekly world news...

How is bat boy these days?
edit on 16-8-2011 by DaMod because: (no reason given)


I honestly did not know the reputation of the source and I have been very well informed of it. I will not use it again




posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 04:37 PM
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Heh. It's the political dimension of "The Secret." If we disbelieve, the illusion will fade?


Yes, if enough people realize the the U.S govt, congress, the senate, etc are illegitimate and have no right to govern them. The illusion will disappear.



Was the declaration of independence an illegitimate document? Are we still British subjects? Oh I SEE, you don't like the USA, so nothing it ever does could be legitimate.

Other nations recognize the US, even if you don't. So I guess the thought-pressure of a few hundred million other earthlings sustains the tulpa-form of the United States government, whether you believe it exists or not.

You're not a legitimate source of information concerning legitimacy,



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 



Was the declaration of independence an illegitimate document? Are we still British subjects?

The declaration of independence is just a piece of paper. The revolutionary war gave us our independence.



Oh I SEE, you don't like the USA, so nothing it ever does could be legitimate.

No. Why are you putting words into my mouth?



Other nations recognize the US, even if you don't. So I guess the thought-pressure of a few hundred million other earthlings sustains the tulpa-form of the United States government, whether you believe it exists or not.

Crooks always recognize crooks. All other nations are fraudulent as well.



You're not a legitimate source of information concerning legitimacy,

You do realize many freed slaves also saw slavery as a good thing right? Many of them saw their slave master as the provider of food, shelter, security, and many other free services. Many of them even wanted to return to slavery, they simply could not imagine a life of freedom. Don't you think it would be wise to question what you've been conditioned to believe?


edit on 16-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:08 PM
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Aren't we a little early in this whole campaign to be single mindedly focused on destroying individual people at this point? Why the long string of hard anti-Paul messages recently? Whatever I feel on the matter, my biggest point is the man should have the fair chance to win or lose by his own merits and ability to win over the public. This sniping and enormous attack campaign that is visible all over the net right now is ridiculous and insulting.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:16 PM
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. Don't you think it would be wise to question what you've been conditioned to believe?


edit on 16-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)


Hah. You have absolutely no idea whom you are communicating with. Based on ATS demographics, when I was an anarchist you probably weren't even born yet.

Why do you assume that other people's ideas are merely the result of mindless programming, while yours are the product of what must seem like a unique and new adventure, soul-searching? Time to re-read Proudhon, or actually read him, and not just the cliff notes.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:26 PM
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Oh, Kro on another misinformed anti-Paul rant. Must be Tuesday!


Honestly Kro, whose campaign is paying you? And are you aware that the talking points they're feeding you are making you look foolish? The rest of us are well ware of it!



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 

We may have to coin a new term...KRO-lling.
I kind of like it.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
The declaration of independence is just a piece of paper. The revolutionary war gave us our independence.





That is about the most ill-informed, assinine statement I have ever read on these forums - and that speaks volumes. In a single sentence you have managed to destroy any credibility you might have ever had. Nice work!

edit on 16-8-2011 by kozmo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 



Hah. You have absolutely no idea whom you are communicating with. Based on ATS demographics, when I was an anarchist you probably weren't even born yet.

I don't really care who I'm talking to. You're not important to me.



Why do you assume that other people's ideas are merely the result of mindless programming, while yours are the product of what must seem like a unique and new adventure, soul-searching?

Not mindless programing just a mixture of racism and economic illiteracy.



Time to re-read Proudhon, or actually read him, and not just the cliff notes.

Actually I have read his work, but I'm not a fan of socialist anarchist.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 



Hah. You have absolutely no idea whom you are communicating with. Based on ATS demographics, when I was an anarchist you probably weren't even born yet.

I don't really care who I'm talking to. You're not important to me.



Why do you assume that other people's ideas are merely the result of mindless programming, while yours are the product of what must seem like a unique and new adventure, soul-searching?

Not mindless programing just a mixture of racism and economic illiteracy.



Time to re-read Proudhon, or actually read him, and not just the cliff notes.

Actually I have read his work, but I'm not a fan of socialist anarchist.


Why are you here? Your apparent victim-mentality isn't really contributing anything. Your pointless ad hominems do not bely intelligence. And there is no such thing as a Socialist Anarchist. Try looking up the definition of each - you might learn something.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 

Are you saying the declaration of independence is more than just a simple piece of paper? Anyone can write out a document like the the declaration of independence, the fact that they acted upon it is what's important.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 



And there is no such thing as a Socialist Anarchist. Try looking up the definition of each - you might learn something.

Wow, and you called me dumb?


It is you that should look up the definition of each.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by getreadyalready
 



Not to mention, if the government has no claim to the property then neither does the individual. It becomes less civilized and more survival of the fittest (or boldest).

Please tell me, how can a govt own land?



How can one person declare they have private property rights, and at the same time claim the government that helps them protect those rights, has no rights of its own?

What a unintelligent statement. The govt is the biggest threat to private property rights. If property rights were actually enforced in the first place the govt itself could not exist.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)


And if the government did not exist who would enforce your private property rights? You are one man, maybe one family, can you defend your home against all invaders?

I am not a fan of a large Federal Govt, and I hate property taxes, but some sort of government is entirely necessary. Without some sort of government and civility and order of law, then your property rights only exist so far as you can defend them.

I've got a handful of shady friends, and without some sort of government, you might find yourself working for me, and farming your own land on my behalf!

The Government "owns" land in one way via parks and public works, such as roads and bridges. But, more importantly, the government exists to enforce the laws we have written and voted upon, and make sure your private property rights remain yours.

To me, it is ludicrous to think any person could believe in personal property rights, and believe in open borders at the same time? So you own your property, but if I decide I want it, I just walk over and take it? You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you are for open borders, then you are necessarily AGAINST private property rights.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:58 PM
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reply to post by kro32
 


You actually asked for a list of "approved" media outlets. Are you serious? And look at your avatar, THAT is what Ron Paul steadfastly defends and supports. Your here with an agenda and its obvious and your avatar is an attempt at sleight of hand. Go away.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by kozmo
 



And there is no such thing as a Socialist Anarchist. Try looking up the definition of each - you might learn something.

Wow, and you called me dumb?


It is you that should look up the definition of each.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)


NEWSFLASH puppet... just because some pseudo-intellectual coined a term doesn't mean it makes sense. Had you actually read the book of the same name by Giovanni Baldelli you would have seen how he used opposite spectrum ideologies in a sorry attempt to create some new form of social order. The problem was it already existed and was called LIBERTARIANISM! But you, in your infinite wisdom already knew that.


Talk about being programmed. Anyone who reads that tripe and actually buys into it is... well... I think we all know the answer to that. Hypocrite much? Or only on Tuesdays?



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 



And if the government did not exist who would enforce your private property rights? You are one man, maybe one family, can you defend your home against all invaders?

Trying to be funny, eh? Competing firms can protect private property and stuff. Many places in the U.S have some type of private security, like armored car companies. The market will provide sub-types of those.



I am not a fan of a large Federal Govt, and I hate property taxes, but some sort of government is entirely necessary. Without some sort of government and civility and order of law, then your property rights only exist so far as you can defend them.

I disagree. If the govt has to steal my property to protect my property, then it isn't doing that great of a job protecting my property, now is it?




I've got a handful of shady friends, and without some sort of government, you might find yourself working for me, and farming your own land on my behalf!

Slavery wouldn't be profitable without a government backing you up.



The Government "owns" land in one way via parks and public works, such as roads and bridges. But, more importantly, the government exists to enforce the laws we have written and voted upon, and make sure your private property rights remain yours.

Not really. The Government claims to own those parks and stuff, but it really doesn't. If you ask them to show proof of a lawful ownership title they will come up short.



To me, it is ludicrous to think any person could believe in personal property rights, and believe in open borders at the same time?

I believe in private property rights and the government can not own property -- therefore it can not deny entry into a territory it doesn't even own.



So you own your property, but if I decide I want it, I just walk over and take it?

No, that's called theft. The bible says: Thou shall not steal.



You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If you are for open borders, then you are necessarily AGAINST private property rights.

How did you come to that conclusion? Just because I want people to be able to cross imaginary lines at will doesn't mean I hate private property.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 



Had you actually read the book of the same name by Giovanni Baldelli you would have seen how he used opposite spectrum ideologies in a sorry attempt to create some new form of social order.

He coined the term, but many other anarchist before him identified with socialism.



Talk about being programmed. Anyone who reads that tripe and actually buys into it is... well... I think we all know the answer to that. Hypocrite much? Or only on Tuesdays?

How do you know what I've read? Please tell me what have I read.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by getreadyalready
 


This the same exact plan that died in the Senate in 2007...Everyone who applied would have to pay upwards of 10k including fees and penalties and back taxes if they even wanted to get into the "line". They wouldn't even be eligible for a green card until everyone who was trying to do it the legal way got theirs. The plan included a way to make it easier for family members to come here through their relationships *spouse, parent, siblings* to citizens/legal residents rather than wait upwards of 10 years to get a green light to get in the country...the whole system is broken and it needs to be fixed...until then, expect illegals to keep on crossing into the country with no end in sight.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:58 PM
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reply to post by Daedalus24
 


Did you read my plan or just the post?

I don't think we should charge them at all. I think we should first secure the border at all costs. Next, I think we need to set up 100s of small satellite offices on both sides of the border, and declare a 6 month amnesty period. If someone can come in and document themselves, as long as they aren't accused of any crimes, they can become citizens in a free and expedited way. At the same time, the potential immigrants across the border, will see a marketing campaign, and an ease of application, and an expedited process.

After that 6 months, the penalties become stiff, and all authorities, including employers should have some responsibility in recognizing and reporting illegals. Regular beat cops, DMV, hospitals, employers, all should have a responsibility to report illegal immigrants.

Either they are with us, or they are against us. No middle ground.

Check out my thread. I just bumped it for ya!



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
reply to post by kozmo
 



Had you actually read the book of the same name by Giovanni Baldelli you would have seen how he used opposite spectrum ideologies in a sorry attempt to create some new form of social order.

He coined the term, but many other anarchist before him identified with socialism.



Talk about being programmed. Anyone who reads that tripe and actually buys into it is... well... I think we all know the answer to that. Hypocrite much? Or only on Tuesdays?

How do you know what I've read? Please tell me what have I read?


I don't have to know the title of the books you've read to understand your misguided principles. You state them openly, and with pride which is the greater irony.

"Anarchy" is defined as "absence of government" and "lack of social order".

"Socialism" is defined as "any of economic or political theories advocating collective or government ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods."

Just because I coin the term "blackwhite" doesn't negate the more effective, socially accepted and recognized term "grey". And one who would attempt to subjugate the more socially recognized and accepted term of "grey" with "blackwhite" is either pseudo-intellectual or simply disingenuous. Baldelli and his ilk are either or both. Adherents to such ridiculousness have willingly joined the club.



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