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China and Iraq were/are not a military treath to the USA

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posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 02:31 AM
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I speak chinese, french and a bit of english so plz be a little tolerating about the thousand of typo i make....
...............im also studying at the IISS: its The International Institute for Strategic Studies, i usualy take my info from my books....

anyway....

reading over the past topic i saw something strange about all those american who phantasm about the next great war
...well.... if you interested yourself to hitory a little you could have easily guessed that China never been an Agressive Empire like the tird Reich(Nazi Germany) or the raising sun Empire (not japan
England!!!(before WW1)).......USA is somewhat an agressive empire but not as much in a military way....they dont need to use it....In fact their people dont want to use it unless its absolutly necessary....

That make me think about something else (ill come back to China later).... anpther thing that always make me fall from my chair is the fact that many American seem to live in a different world than mine (im in Singapore(born in USA)) ..... let me Explain my self: I was for thew war agaisnt iraq but it wasnt cause of the WMD(not long after George bush became president Collin Powell himself said Iraq were unable of building any WDM the only wdm they ever had were provided by the USA to bomb is own ppl) or the tie with al-qaeda (A religous Extremist like Ben Laden being friend with Sadam Hussein a communist (Communist deny any religion) let me laugh
if you have ever belived that.... I was for the war cause of the oil....yes the oil but not cause of the money you can do by selling it......let me explain why.... you see America is the larger consumator of oil in the world wich is more and more comming from saoudi arabia at such a point that USA is now owned at 7% of its GNP by the royal saoudi family and their friends....how do they get all that money? extracting a baril of oil cost about 4 american $ the oils compagny usualy make arround 3-7 $ in the process...... but hey on wallstreet a baril cost over 40$... where do you think all the money is going? in the pocket of the owner of the land wich is in this case the Saoudi....Hmmm 7% of the USA GNP owned by very few ppl... its indeed a unique case Even Bill Gate dont have the power granted by those 7%.... imagine what would happen to the economy if the saoudi decided to withdraw all there shares and ... it wouldnot be only the 7% (wich is mostly energy compagny related(oil is used to make electricity and for all transportation of merchandise so its very very important for the econnomy)) but all aspect of the USA economy.... sadly the saoudi are very very higly protected cause of the oil interest shared by every country on the earth so america could not even think about invading it.....well you can understand that american proud like they are, wouldnt let the saoudi get any influence over the usa, so they decided to look for other place to get the precious oil....and guess what is the second country with the largest known oil ressource on earth? Iraq... ill let you make your own conclusion

coming back to China....that WW3 isnt going to begin soon.... China is still mostly a country under developed outside of their liberal zone (btw their GNP is 1/3 of the USA with 4/1 inhabitant) though their military is very well developed most analysts estimate China's real spending on defense is at least three times as great as the publicly disclosed figure...For example, according to the Secretary of Defense's January 2001 report, Proliferation: Threat and Response, China's military funding levels were expected to average between $44 and $70 billion annually between 2000 and 2004... theres also The United States Arms Control and Disarmament Agency (ACDA) who estimates Chinese military expenditure were "rough estimates," and are some 7-8 times higher than the official Chinese defense budget figures
but when i look more closely to the budget i see the money is used for harmless plan like their space program or research on energy(27billion
??wow is the USA doing that????)

ahem....even so dont expect anything making BOOM comming from china for the nexf 20-30 years cause all their plan is to make China's economy grow
bigger and stronger.... nothing else....kind of boring....

anyway ill wait for some answer before contuning im bored....




posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 11:29 PM
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An American from Singapore explaining China!

I disagree with two points-
China HAS historically been an aggressor nation/people.

Libray of Congress]
Much of what came to constitute China Proper was unified for the first time in 221 B.C. (see fig. 2). In that year the western frontier state of Qin, the most aggressive of the Warring States, subjugated the last of its rival states. . . .Qin aggrandizement was aided by frequent military expeditions pushing forward the frontiers in the north and south.. . . The empire expanded westward as far as the rim of the Tarim Basin (in modern Xinjiang-Uyghur Autonomous Region), making possible relatively secure caravan traffic across Central Asia to Antioch, Baghdad, and Alexandria. The paths of caravan traffic are often called the "silk route" because the route was used to export Chinese silk to the Roman Empire.. . . Chinese armies also invaded and annexed parts of northern Vietnam and northern Korea toward the end of the second century B.C. . . China was reunified in A.D. 589 by the short-lived Sui dynasty (A.D. 581-617), which has often been compared to the earlier Qin dynasty in tenure and the ruthlessness of its accomplishments. The Sui dynasty's early demise was attributed to the government's tyrannical demands on the people, who bore the crushing burden of taxes and compulsory labor. These resources were overstrained in the completion of the Grand Canal--a monumental engineering feat-- and in the undertaking of other construction projects, including the reconstruction of the Great Wall. Weakened by costly and disastrous military campaigns against Korea in the early seventh century. . . By the mid-thirteenth century, the Mongols had subjugated north China, Korea, and the Muslim kingdoms of Central Asia and had twice penetrated Europe(emphasis added). . . After China Proper had been subdued, the Manchus conquered Outer Mongolia (now the Mongolian People's Republic) in the late seventeenth century. In the eighteenth century they gained control of Central Asia as far as the Pamir Mountains and established a protectorate over the area the Chinese call Xizang but commonly known in the West as Tibet. . . . The Opium War, 1839-42 (more below)


Now I realize the above is not all inclusive, but it certainly dispells any statement that China has not been aggressive.


Korean War, Tibet


The Korean War is still not understood by the west. The entry of China is even more perplexing.

Tibet- more Chinese aggression.

Not to the next one:
Saddam was not a communist.
His power(Wikipedia) came from a religious group akin to national socialism (fascism). While not a particularly religious man Saddam used religion as a tool.

Other than these I agree with you. You are 'spot on' about the "Rising Sun Empire" being Britain.


20-30 years? Agreeable. Cnina has something 'the west' never has had- patience and the long view.

China finally (Hong Kong) got rid of the British drug-lords and will eventually develop its commercial interests.

To understand the west's preoccupation with China history is an ample teacher. Twice China invaded Europe!



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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Is China still not a threat if A., the U.S. supports Taiwan leaving the peoples republic of China? and B., Strengthen Japan and Taiwan's missile defence system? and C., Topple the communist regime of North Korea?



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:29 AM
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China and Iraq were/are not a military treath to the USA

In the 1970's Henry Kissinger, then Secretary of State to President Richard Nixon, had to placate the Chinese with loans and promises of business cooperation to covertly back down from supporting North Vietnam allowing the war to eventually end.

Since that time, 30+ years ago, China has gobbled up Hong Kong and now looking toward encumbering Taiwan within it's empire. Japan is vulnerable to China's nuclear missile reach, as is all of the far east. Make no mistake, the evidence is quite strong that China wants more real esate.

Under present and I stress "present" communist rule which contains the freedom of 2 billion Chinese citizens, a bold direction toward controlling it's people under communism while allowing a cash flow of capitalist activity to finance communism has never been tried beofre in a communist nation.

This is a remarkable and hybrid amendment to the Leninist way of life. It could very well work more effectively than democracy and leadership by committee which is now the way the US is managed.

However, when your customer is the largest consumer market on earth such as the United States, there is a defacto push button control on China to help keep the beast under control. We rarely use it or threates it's use for fear of the effect on US businesses dependent upon China for goods.

Our intelligence operations since the 1950's, was to bring the former Soviet Union to it's knees financially since they had no means of worker incentives or taxation to expand it's economy. The USSR spent itself into defense sytems bankruptcy which was always the CIA plan with the old Soviet union.

China boldly understood in the 1970's that it's own existence financially in becoming a world trading leader/partner and expanding its international monetary strength and stature would depend on bringing cash into the mainland and modernizing.

China, in addition to Japan, are now the worlds bankers. China has at least a 3:1 export vs import ratio bringing more cash into its reserves than cash outflow. The US is exactly the opposite.

If China stays communist rather than adopting a full fledged capitalist society, it will become the most dangerous country on the planet for many reasons including it's access to expand nuclear and space based weaponry. It doesn't take 12 years of hearings in China to build a nuclear plant for electricty as it does in the United States. China will not hesitate to drill for oil and excessively worried about killing off salamanders to obtain resources to expand its basic industries.

The US is in a closeted downward spiral of imploding growth on a larger scale due to regulatory factors such as these. The enemies within the US under the guise of environmentailism will transfer the US wealth to China over the next 50 years assuming the present direction of deflating US growth via environmentalism over expansion of basic industries. This posture will inhibit US growth while allowing China to surpass the US in the next 10 years economically .

Evidence of the emergence of China's newfound wealth and benefitting from America's lack of motivation for energy sources is China in 2014 will surpass the United States in automobile production. Why is that important? Automobiles utilize virtually every raw material on the planet and employ millions of people to produce cars. If the US through insane environmentailst policies continues its present path and refuse to build oil refineries and cannot find the alternatives to reasonably replace oil, the US economy will sink dramatically to an18-24% level of unemployment without an automobile industry.

Now, the picture starts coming together where China enjoys taking over real estate for one reason. Natural resources. The US has one of the largest coal reserves in the world. It has large iron ore deposits and unlike many countries has one of the largest natural supplies of forest products.

More toward addressing your point, I don't fear China today as I fear it tomorrow. Do they want to kill off populations with a first kill scenario? China wants resources. More importantly they can eventually afford to be an inward nation having within their own borders a ready made population eager to blend Marxist and capitalist beliefs into a solidified empire which consumes nations and raw materials. Their means of obtaining nations I believe, will be their choice within 50 years. No, they will not hesitate to use nucler blackmail to obtain what they want.


"Politicians, like teenagers, will spend every dime and drink all the beer and whiskey you give them".



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 01:22 AM
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The US imported goods worth $152,436,000,000 from China last year. Thats a whole lot of money a major reason I cant see a war between the US and China. Its not good business practices to get into a war with you greatest trade partner.

www.census.gov...

[edit on 20-8-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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China went into isolation because they view the outside world not worth the effort.

A good book to read is 1421: The Year China discover America (World)

Mongols were never assimulated by the Han Culture, so their "Yuan" Dynasty invasion of Europe wasn't a Han People Agression.

If you view Tibet now, it's getting modernized with great effort, Recently, a Cell Phone Network was place in the region. Now Monks can talk to other monks in distance cities. "Buy more Incenses for on your way back!"

China wants a peaceful raise to super power. They know in the future, their influence will be great. U.S knows this as well, that's why they call China a Rivial more then a Friend. When China view U.S as a friend with a attitude.

China in the Korean and Vietnam Wars is simply to keep Westerners out of Asia. If you look at History, Westerners seem distrustful and have a uterior motive in situations such as the Opium Wars.

The only reason I think people believe China and U.S will face off in a great war would be Taiwan's status Quo. Why is U.S protecting Taiwan? Republic of China and People's Republic Of China is a internal conflict. ROC is not recongized by U.S yet they are protecting them. It's simply another Western trick to distablize Asia and a coming Superpower.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by PublicGadfly
Twice China invaded Europe!


When? You are talking about the HUns and Tartars perhaps? But they weren't 'china'.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 03:15 PM
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good info boxcar...i think most AMERICANS would like to think that china would/will act like the u.s. does...what china wood need to do that is 'force projection'..which is something AMERICA has in abundance. where china does matter is in it local area..ie china, taiwain, maybe even india......china could be a nuclear treath...but i don't think is a real factor now.
force projection is the true treath and AMERICA is about the only country that has a large force projection...so..does that make AMERICA a threat????? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm



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