It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The 2 witnesses of the Tribulation

page: 1
2
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:36 AM
link   
It was always my belief that the 2 witnesses in the Tribulation would be Elijah and Enoch. My reasoning for this are based on the Bible itself.

Hebrews 9:27

American King James Version
"And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment"

However, neither men have died. By human reckoning they are still alive because God took them and changed them. They have never tasted death as it is appointed ALL men to do.

Could they be the 2 prophets/witnesses to arise in the tribulation? It is an exciting prospect to think that the 2 greatest men to ever walk the earth should return and witness once more. I'm not saying im right, just that it may be a possibility and definately something to think about. The only 2 men in history who would dare have the courage and audacity to refute the beast's lies and give testimony to the return of the Lord.


edit on 16-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:39 AM
link   
Do the 2 witnesses come before the Antichrist or after he has arrived? I'm not a Christian so I don't understand.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000


However, neither men have died. By human reckoning they are still alive because God took them and changed them. They have never tasted death as it is appointed ALL men to do.

Hmmmm, seems like Jesus's death wasn't necessary for everyone after all. Wonder why we couldn't all go like that.

...and why are these two the greatest men that ever walked the earth?
edit on 16-8-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 10:30 AM
link   
I HAVE thought about it as is suggested in OP, and I can only come to the same conclusion as Hydroman: Why are these two men the most important to walk the earth ever.

In spite of the guarded 'I believe' formulation in OP (applause for that), this sounds rather definitive. Almost like an indisputable 'truth'.

Without being religious myself, I would e.g. have nominated Buddha, if we go to the common ground outside the doctrines of a specific religion.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:37 AM
link   
Well i say they are the 2 greatest men to ever walk the earth because they are the only 2 men that walked with God himself since the adama (first man), and the only 2 since then to ever do so (excepting Christ, but for my faith Christ was God in the flesh). The 2 witnesses do not come before or after the beast, they walk the earth the same time as he does, and will be killed by him only to rise from the dead 3 1/2 days later. I got a link for you to check so you can read up on it. Some theology believes it could be Moses and Elijah, but i think it could be Enoch, because Moses did die as was his punishment for destroying the 600 commandments God himself wrote with his own hand.

www.gci.org...

I'm not saying this is how it WILL go, its just my take on how it could be. Not everyone is a christian or jew and if you are not then this doesnt really pertain to you since you don't have our beliefs. This about the Revelations, also known as The Book of Daniel to jews.
edit on 16-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:41 AM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Well I'm Jewish and I can certainly say we're very different. But let's not fight one another to prove a point. I've always wondered how Christians view their end times to say. What is the mark of the beast, the Antichrist, and everything else.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:58 AM
link   

Originally posted by ManOfGod267
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Well I'm Jewish and I can certainly say we're very different. But let's not fight one another to prove a point. I've always wondered how Christians view their end times to say. What is the mark of the beast, the Antichrist, and everything else.


The beast is the son of satan so to speak. A mockery of Christ in the flesh. As satan tries to mock everything Christ does with creating his very own heretical version of the Lord, except not being born of the Holy Spirit and a virgin. For all the miracles Christ performed, the Anti-Christ will perform miracles as well, including being mortally wounded and surviving. The Beast is the one who will champion the Jews in rebuilding the Temple mount, and 3 years later he will claim God's throne for himself and turn upon the Jews and they will flee to the city of Petra. To you at first he will be your messiah or so you think. For us the messiah was Christ, so to us this would be the messiah's second coming, it is for that reason when the beast shows himself we will not bow down to him, because in the prophecy of Revelations the beast comes first and Christ comes after then to settle the score at armageddon (megiddo).
edit on 16-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:09 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I can say I see that we have very different views of the future. But reading about the Antichrist being wounded (very badly) and surviving felt weird. Like I could picture myself as the Antichrist for some reason. Seeing myself being hurt and knowing I will survive. I had a dream like this in the past. Not saying I believe in the Antichrist or Jesus. But I read a little in the past.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by ManOfGod267
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


I can say I see that we have very different views of the future. But reading about the Antichrist being wounded (very badly) and surviving felt weird. Like I could picture myself as the Antichrist for some reason. Seeing myself being hurt and knowing I will survive. I had a dream like this in the past. Not saying I believe in the Antichrist or Jesus. But I read a little in the past.


The key thing to remember is that Christianity is a splinter sect from Judaiism. We believer everything you do about the Old Testament concerning everything from Genesis down through the years from Moses and the Exodus till Yeshua Christ (Jesus as the english say). Where we diverged from was when Christ was born and when he died on Golgotha.

Whatever the case, humanity's clock is winding to a stop. In the end its not about who was wrong and who was right, christianity or judaiism. Everything will play out the way it was meant to long ago. We christians have a saying "there is nothing that happens that is not within God's will".



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:17 PM
link   
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Well not exactly. There are many differences between the two faiths and a lot of the laws and practices are different. Just saying. But I don't want to derail you're thread. Message me if you're interested in learning the differences?



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:37 PM
link   
reply to post by ManOfGod267
 

Not saying I believe in the Antichrist or Jesus. But I read a little in the past.
Beasts are empires.
There is no person called the antichrist in the NT, as if it was an individual person. Revelation does not even use the term. There is no building of a temple on earth in Revelation either.
There was a temple in Jerusalem when revelation was written, and not too surprisingly there was a prophecy in Daniel predicting it being built. Some eschatologies like to mix them up a bit and throw in some end time predictions from Paul, to end up with something that makes sense to them.
To me, a modern country calling itself Israel does not make it Israel, and a temple built in Jerusalem does not have to have anything to do with end time prophecy other than it fulfills the prediction of a falling away, where Christians abandon their religion to feel like they are on a new winning side.

edit on 16-8-2011 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 01:00 PM
link   
a problem would be that Jesus stated none were greater than John born of women and he that is least in the kingdom is greater than him, personally believe since the antichrist denies the Father and the Son and puts forth a particuliar meaning, they would be the two witnesses



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 01:08 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rustami
a problem would be that Jesus stated none were greater than John born of women and he that is least in the kingdom is greater than him, personally believe since the antichrist denies the Father and the Son and puts forth a particuliar meaning, they would be the two witnesses
Then they would be witnesses of themselves.
I would go more towards the messengers, as in the Apostles who taught repentance.
They are killed in the sinful civilization, not wanting to hear about how to change their ways. The people accept the false prophet who says, "Go forth and God will be with you."
The ungodly empire goes forth to force their way of life on the world that is full of people who are in actuality better people by not acting like that.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 01:21 PM
link   
reply to post by jmdewey60
 


seems to be a few passages that define specifics like the Spirit of truth being a witness in John15 as well as the apostles

I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John8



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

seems to be a few passages that define specifics like the Spirit of truth being a witness in John15 as well as the apostles
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John8
John 8 would give one explanation for why there would be two.
The sackcloth would be reminiscent of Psalm 69 where the speaker is repentant while drunks mock him.
There is the two things juxtaposed in both, the city to be restored, and the penitent.
Also there is the abyss in Revelation with the sinking into the water in Psalms.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well i say they are the 2 greatest men to ever walk the earth because they are the only 2 men that walked with God himself since the adama (first man), and the only 2 since then to ever do so (excepting Christ, but for my faith Christ was God in the flesh). The 2 witnesses do not come before or after the beast, they walk the earth the same time as he does, and will be killed by him only to rise from the dead 3 1/2 days later. I got a link for you to check so you can read up on it. Some theology believes it could be Moses and Elijah, but i think it could be Enoch, because Moses did die as was his punishment for destroying the 600 commandments God himself wrote with his own hand.

www.gci.org...

I'm not saying this is how it WILL go, its just my take on how it could be. Not everyone is a christian or jew and if you are not then this doesnt really pertain to you since you don't have our beliefs. This about the Revelations, also known as The Book of Daniel to jews.
edit on 16-8-2011 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)


It's not quite clear whom you address this post to, but at least I'm one of those asking the related questions.

It can similarly be said, that Buddha so to speak walked with ultimate reality, so I would still nominate him amongst the greatest people.

Quote: ["Not everyone is a christian or jew and if you are not then this doesnt really pertain to you since you don't have our beliefs."]

As long as parts of the christianities insist on a basic authoritarian attitude, often missioning beyond egalitarian principles and practice, anything christian is of potential interest for all mankind from a social perspective.

Academically the situation is similar, but not completely identical.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:59 PM
link   
But Jesus said that of those born of women no one is greater than John the Baptist. If we were to pick by greatness, John couldn't be excluded. But it was Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration.

I think the biggest clue is that they will be dressed in sackcloth (black/darkness).

Do you think it's a physical return or a spiritual return?



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 03:15 PM
link   

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
But Jesus said that of those born of women no one is greater than John the Baptist. If we were to pick by greatness, John couldn't be excluded. But it was Moses and Elijah at the transfiguration.

I think the biggest clue is that they will be dressed in sackcloth (black/darkness).

Do you think it's a physical return or a spiritual return?


And the followers of John the Baptist basically say, that (what I take to be the pauline) Jesus is a fake, which makes the situation rather complex, as the pauline Jesus' words would be worthless, meaning that his opinion of John is equally worthless.

Chinese boxes and opinions on opinions.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 03:27 PM
link   
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


something to consider is Jesus said John was the Elijah to come if they were willing to accept it in Matthew11
edit on 16-8-2011 by Rustami because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 03:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by jmdewey60

Originally posted by Rustami
reply to post by jmdewey60
 

seems to be a few passages that define specifics like the Spirit of truth being a witness in John15 as well as the apostles
I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John8
John 8 would give one explanation for why there would be two.
The sackcloth would be reminiscent of Psalm 69 where the speaker is repentant while drunks mock him.
There is the two things juxtaposed in both, the city to be restored, and the penitent.
Also there is the abyss in Revelation with the sinking into the water in Psalms.


not exactly sure what your getting at but do know there are some mentions of the word drunkard being associated to wine old and new like in Joel for example, then also that verse about John neither eating or drinking and them saying he had a devil with the son of man coming eating and drinking, a drunkard or winebibber, friend of sinners etc.



new topics

top topics



 
2
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join