Did Humans and Dinosaurs Coexist? Yes!

Originally posted by nyk537
Unfortunately it seems as though this thread has been hijacked and is no longer really about what I had intended. We hare not here to discuss God vs Science or any combination of such....we are here to discuss that dinosaurs and man were alive on this planet at the same time...and what I believe to me much more recently than we have been led to believe.

I think the young earth discussion is what started to derail this thread. There are many different variations of the young earth creationist. The most hardcore of these do in fact believe that the earth is only around 6,000 years old. This age is reached by taking the days of creation literally and then adding the lineage of Abram and Moses and so on from the Bible.

There are also other creationists out there (like myself) who believe the earth is much younger than what we are being told now...but honestly really don't know how old it is. I don't believe anyone can accurately tell us the age of the earth. I do however think that our time and God's time is different...so the days of creation could be thousands of years each to us.

In any case, I would really like to see this thread get back on topic if it's possible. I think there is still a lot to be discussed about dinosaurs and humans coexisting.

Yes but will all due respect TS, didn't you bring this upon yourself in the first place by bashing on evolution in your op? If you for example had taken a more neutral stand, this topic could have taken a different course.

As a topic starter you carry a certain responsibility and must consider what kind of reactions your material will have versus the reactions you desire.

Originally posted by nyk537
The next example I would like to show you is another example that brings into question when certain animals were said to exist by evolutionary scholars. The object in question is known most commonly as a "Devil's Corkscrew". These are spiral tunnels in the Earth that range from around six to seven feet. When they were first discovered, scientists thought they were the result of a giant root. Here is an example of one:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/97b2391a0650.jpg[/atsimg]

It wasn't until the 1920's that scientists found these out for what they really were...palaeocaster beaver holes! Now, according to evolutionary timelines this animal went extinct about 30 million years ago. This is where we find a problem. American Indians knew specifically what these corkscrews were and what made them. In fact, the Lakota Indians even had a name for them - Ca'pa el ti - which translates to "beaver lodges". The only way the Indians could have known this would be to excavate these tunnels, find the remains, and correctly peice together and identify them for what they were. Considering the American Indians strong belief in not disturbing the bones of the dead, the only reasonable conclusion to make is that these people saw this animal alive!

edit on 16-8-2011 by nyk537 because: (no reason given)

ok so i'm not saying that american indians didn't know about these but have you ever thought that the beavers that the indians knew about must have evolved from their ancestors who could have been the palaeocaster beaver who also used to dig holes? In fact mammals have evolved from reptiles (dinosaurs) and most of them could dig holes. Soon after the dinosaurs became extinct, the remaining reptiles slowly evolved into the lizards and crocodiles etc we have today. As for the mammals, well they went to becoming the dominant group and eventually certain mammals evolved to form humans. Its really very simple !!

the gap between humans and dinosaurs is about 68 million years.

reply to post by Stovokor


Wouldn't that be the same as humans thousands of years from now saying "find me a hippo with a saddle...." Seriously, lets for the sake of the argument say that its possible (which I believe in some form it is, after all, if scientist had to claim they were wrong, millions upon millions of dollars would be lost, as well as power) just because the animals weren't domesticated wouldn't mean crap. You don't see tigers with saddles do you?

If you want to see some evidence of human and dinosaurs existing together, just youtube Kent Hovind he has videos were he pulls fossils up on the internet with human footprint fossils along with dinosaur fossils.

reply to post by nyk537


Okay to go back to your opening statement , dinosaurs, dinosaurs is a very broad term , remember there were many different periods of dinosaurs.
From Proterozoic ( 2.5 billion years ago to 540 million years ago ) - Phanerozoic ( 540 million years ago to today )

Which period of dinosaurs are you talking about ? most likely Cenozoic - Quartenary ( 1.8 million years ago - today)
Even at that its still a massive amount of time , if we have fossil evidence going back 2.5 billion years ago , then what does that even begin to tell us about the age of the earth. These fossils around found everywhere across the planet.

I realise you dont mean the dinosaurs everyone thinks of , i.e. T-rex , velociraptor and diplodochus , brontosauraus . Do you mean the common ancestors of these dinosaurs ?
The species evolved from them which were along side humans ?

Evidence of dinosaurs from drawings on ancient artwork or buildings or anything could have been given to our early man from aliens !
just throwing that out there as its just as plausible as dinosaurs walking alongside men .

reply to post by OG_SWAGGA_KING


Have these human footprints been identified as being from the same period , when they were created or fossilised in the earth ? or just made along side these footprints from an earlier time ?
I remember watching a program about those footprints and found it quite mind blowing at the time .
Not sure If I believed it then either

I'm going to post a couple of videos here that highlight some of the things I've talked about, and also go into greater detail on things I haven't. The first is from a documentary called "Dragons or Dinosaurs" from a book of the same name written by Darek Issacs. I urge you to watch it before commented on it please.



The second is only the first part of a documentary called Forbidden History: Dinosaurs and the Bible. I'm only going to put up the first part, but again I urge you to watch the whole thing.



I'm only asking that you watch these and consider what they are saying. If you want to discuss the content of these then by all means we will. Please try to refrain from simply dismissing them without watching them though.

Originally posted by BlackProjects
As far as radioactive decay. It is not constant. Seems to influenced by solar flares. www.scienceagogo.com...

This isnt going to help young earth creationists.

1. The difference between the age of the earth (4.5 Billion years) and the one needed by YEC (6000 years) is a difference of 750000 times.
2. The variation in radioactive decay cited by Jenkins, Fishbach et al (here for anyone who wants to read it is only the tiny 0.001 times.
3. It probably isnt even true. Noone can replicate the results, and the "influence" they cite was determined by looking at graphs and saying "look here... see the correlation!". But its all very subjective.
4. Yet again we have the completely hypocritical attitude of creationists that its ok to look at bits of science if it appears to support their own view, but otherwise everything is completely wrong due to the supposed worldwide scientific conspiracy.

Originally posted by N34Li3Z
Also, I recently watched an episode of "Through the Wormhole," and there is undeniable evidence that radioactive decay is affected by the sun;

See my posting above this one for the same answer regarding this "undeniable" evidence.

reply to post by nyk537


I'm very skeptical of videos from YouTube. Since anyone can edit, take out of context, distort, and what not to their videos. Didn't you source a few websites earlier?

Did dinosaurs and humans coexist? Possibly. I would think history suggest so. The word "dinosaur" was coined in the fifties. Prior to that, they were called dragons. China claimed royalty rode dragons. Drawings of dinos show the tail extended, while we made the assumptions for years that because of the weight, they dragged their tails. A fair assumption, why didn't they? Knights slew dragons - fairy tales or more than that?

I saw some posts about "what, scientists are conspiring to keep it secret?" Dunno, is the media conspiring to keep Ron Paul out of the news?

I think the Bible allows for both interpretations; they may have existed before the Garden or they may have co-existed.

Is the Earth and Universe as old as we think it is? Barry Setterfield puts out an interesting argument that is isn't. See www.setterfield.org.

Originally posted by strafgod
how can we see stars farther than 6000 light years away if the creationist theory of a young earth was factual?

The two answers that creationists give.

1. The stars are NOT further than 6000 years. They claim astronomers are in on the conspiracy and just make up false huge distances that are wrong. And all the distance measurement tools available are (cephid variable stars, red shift, etc...) dont work and give wrong values. All of them. Every astronomer in the world is completly deluded or faking data. All of it, all of them.
2. The light from stars was also created by God as to be "on the way here" so that Adam and Eve could see stars in the nighttime sky and wouldnt have to wait years for any starlight to get here. This means that God must have also faked all those cosmic events (supernova, gamma ray bursts etc...) which in reality didnt happen.
The logical conclusion to all of this faking of background evidence is "last tuesdayism" where God actually created the world last tuesday, but had also put in place all the evidence to make it appear older.
There's no difference, really.

Note that once again creationists cant even agree what they believe in and disagree with each other.

Originally posted by TiberianPurifier
ok so i'm not saying that american indians didn't know about these but have you ever thought that the beavers that the indians knew about must have evolved from their ancestors who could have been the palaeocaster beaver who also used to dig holes?

This was dealt with back near the start of this ever lengthening thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The upshot is that the Lakota knew about the fossil paleocasters and the assosiation with the corkscrews, but the OP simply sticks his fingers in his ears and says "no they didnt".

Originally posted by sapien82
Have these human footprints been identified as being from the same period , when they were created or fossilised in the earth ? or just made along side these footprints from an earlier time ?
I remember watching a program about those footprints and found it quite mind blowing at the time .
Not sure If I believed it then either

The fossil footprints are fakes. The story persists because of a few people who make money from them.
Even (actually, I'll stop here and put this in bold for emphasis) Even creationists dont think they are evidence!

From the otherwise rabidly creationist website Answers In Genesis...

Arguments that should be avoided (because further research is still needed, new research has invalided aspects of it, or biblical implications may discount it)
8. Paluxy tracks prove that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.

AIG

Originally posted by OG_SWAGGA_KING
If you want to see some evidence of human and dinosaurs existing together, just youtube Kent Hovind he has videos were he pulls fossils up on the internet with human footprint fossils along with dinosaur fossils.

Oh, did he get out of prison yet?

Originally posted by nyk537
I'm going to post a couple of videos here
Please try to refrain from simply dismissing them without watching them though.

Sorry, but no I'm not going to watch a bunch of videos.
The idea of being able able to link videos is so that you can put your own views, thoughts and opinions forward and use the videos as reference material.

You, sir, are in violation of ATS's terms and conditions...
15k.) Video links/embeds: You will not embed or Post a link to a video without a reasonable description of its content and why it interests you...

As a moderator, you should know that.

reply to post by alfa1


Har har, damn straight.

Anyway, as I posted earlier, there were remains of a baby mammoth found in siberia that was 40k+ years old and ofcourse there is evidence of humans running a long side them, just proves the entire theory of earth being 6thousand years old wrong.

A creationist moderator, this is why I love ATS Seriously though, decorations on ancient pottery is not enough to overthrow the robust scientific evidence available saying that dinosaurs and humans never coexisted. The videos above are pure propaganda, they are also laughable because they reveal just how ignorant creationists are of science. They are very much like ancient astronaut theorists.

see immanuel velikovskys work worlds in collision or the archive site .c14 assumes that the earth and solar system sprung as it is in to existence and has given out a steady rate of carbon. not so MOUNT ST HELENS lava gave a date of 28 000 yrs and it was only from the 80s . the earth has moved a few times in history STONEHENDGE had to be re aligned you dont hear much about that .1753 12 days added to the callender .its a VERY interesting argument for the earth being younger