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posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 09:09 PM
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Donttreadonme I am sorry I jumped the gun there its just your statements hurt me especially at the time when I was under assault from about 10 others, it was uncalled for and I am sorry.

Bilbo




posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 09:12 PM
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Bilbo,

I'm not a Mason. Calling me one would be disinformation, actually. I'm not schooled in Masonic subjects or rituals, nor do I know any Masons (none that I know of) apart from the masons on this board, who have so far proven to be decent, respectable, thoughtful individuals.

I am a Classics and Theology major at the University of Toronto, with law school looming just over the horizon. My theology work is centred mainly around power theory, and religion as a sociopolitical mechanism, rather than a purely faith-based mechanism. If you've read Chomsky, you'll know what I mean. Chomsky's not everyone's cup of tea, but you might actually like him.

No, you're not a fruit-loop, but giving too much credit to theories based on hearsay, cherry-picked evidence and wishful thinking in the name of making life less boring is a bit loopy.

The reason people are spending time on your thread(s) is that 1.) Allegations and accusations that are not based on evidence but on a priori assumptions are destructive and represent bad research; and 2.) Your delivery of same is poor.

Otherwise, carry on. This is, after all a forum on secret societies, conspiracy theories, and the like. The only caveat is that it's not a good idea to be too wedded to the theories consonant with these topics. It's also not a good idea to make Masons (whom you have never joined) the recipients of your anger and disillusionment with perceived clandestine meetings of powerful individuals.


[edit on 19-8-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I was genuinely wondering how you planned to get valid information on the Bilderbergs. I cannot say whether anything on the Internet could be taken a "proof" or "the truth" about the Bilderbergs. I tend to wonder how accurate this information is.
It is always interesting when top international advisors and bankers get together. Personally, I think the banks run the world. I don't think it is any more sinister than that...although that is plenty sinister for me.


This is a subject of some interest to me, but it is hard to find good information on it. I think most of the internet info is bogus, but surely there has to be some good info somewhere.

DTOM again I think we are on the same page as far as Bankers go. He who controls the money flow controls everything. Such is life, and it has always been that way.

Theron, I respect you and your opinion on this issue, and I agree that buisnessmen should (and indeed do) have the right to meet privately and whatnot, but to have so many people of the stature and influence as those attending the Bilderberg meetings says to me something big is going on. Maybe not sinister, but enough to give cause for cionsideration if not concern. Something that affects all of us in one way or another. Of course it is all speculation, but it does make for interesting, sometimes hilarious reading. Wouldn't you agree?



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 09:39 PM
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Sweet you actually said something there I could use thank you, now you ask me if I have read Chomsky? Do you mean all of his books because to my knowledge he has written many, but again what do I know, any book in particular you are referring to?
Sorry about calling you a mason it is just that there are a few in here and I tend to mix them up they all speak the same to me, except AK and Theron Dunn, they make sense and off course not to forget Masonic Light who I personally voted for the way above.
Well I am not so lucky as to have gone to university yet but I will and I am also thinking about theology but I fear it is centered to much on Christianity, but I love religion its better than HC Andersen.
But there is some thing you write I don’t get; you are saying that people use time on my thread because it is bad? That makes no sense to me if I find a bad thread I leave it alone, but hey that’s just me.
Now why do you think I have anger towards masons? Yes I have been offended by some of the things they have said to me and they have been offended by me, but at the moment I have no anger towards the masons “on this site.”
But I will bring you more of your so-called proof its just I need time to put it together and I don’t have a scanner so I have to take the stuff I need to a friends house and then send me the images, I also have a lot of translation to do (Danish Swedish German and Norwegian some old Nordic to English) and this all takes time away from what I really want to do, and that is to talk with people that have the same knowledge as me and share our common views IN A NON SECRET WAY *LOL*

Thank you for adding to this thread

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

BTW: arent you aplying for membership in a lodge?

[edit on 19-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]


df1

posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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You may call my complaint "noise" or choose whatever other excuse you wish to dismiss its validity, but my logic is sound and my criticism is fair.

My complaint is as follows:


Originally posted by NeonHelmet
1: This thread is an investigation into secret societies and their connection with the “people” behind the One World Order or New World Order.

2: This thread will try to connect the dots, so all of you can see the thick red line that draws between all these secret societies.

3: This thread shall only be filled with known facts.

At the start of this thread you state that your investigation is to identify the people behind the NWO and you promise to connect the dots with facts.



A: Bilderberg
B: Rothschild’s
C: United Nations
D: The Round Table
E: The Black Nobility
F: Free Masons
G: The Wardens (*1)

You then enumerate a list of organizations which I presume to be your dots. I expect that most people will concede that first 6 dots exist and I will give you benefit of the doubt on the 7th dot for the sake of arguement, however I see no connection which you have drawn between these dots in even an abstract manner. Also you have introduced no facts which one could use to even conjecture a connection between your dots.


Now I only point out the dots you have to connect them.

At the end of your post you renege on what you promised in the beginning, telling me it is up to me to connect your dots. As I do not believe that any tangible connection exists between your dots, your expectation that I will make a connection where you have failed is an unreasonable expectation on your part.

So I am left with a couple questions:

1) Are you going to make any attempt to live up to your promise of connecting the dots or was your promise just empty words?

2) Are you ever going to introduce any facts that would even hint at a connection between your dots?
.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 10:17 PM
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You'll find that Theology (or Religion) in University is usually comprised of many areas of study: Buddhism, Taosim, Shinto, Hinduism, etc. Along thes lines, dpending on your Professor, you'll have the opportunity to work in people like Chomsky, Bakunin, and other writers. On eof my Profs saw religion as a "business" first, and a statment of faith second. We focused on China in particular, and how Buddhism was integrated into the lives of everyday people as well as the "intelligentsia." VERY interesting stuff. You'd like it, I think. Personally, I've always preferred my work in Classics, but I 've found that I bring alot of the research I used in Theology into my Classics work.

As for your continued inquiry into these topics based on the search for PROOF and EVIDENCE . .. hey, I welcome it. Just keep an open mind, obviously, and if you find something that disproves a theory or seems to cast it in a different light, don't hesitate to explore that, too. If all you are left with are questions rather than concrete conclusions, just stick with the questions and let them be. Ask it, open it up for discussion, maybe. Don't hunt for concrete explanations when there aren't any. Something I learned the hard way when I was younger. Just remember that these subjects by their very nature aren't supported by alot of quality scholarship, so you'll need to be careful.

All in all, you have an inquisitive mind and you pay attention to details - that will help you for sure.

Happy learning.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Sorry about calling you a mason it is just that there are a few in here and I tend to mix them up they all speak the same to me, except AK and Theron Dunn, they make sense and off course not to forget Masonic Light who I personally voted for the way above.


Sorry, do you mean to say that Theron and I make sense, or that we don't? I have trouble making sense of what you've written here.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by AlexKennedy

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Sorry about calling you a mason it is just that there are a few in here and I tend to mix them up they all speak the same to me, except AK and Theron Dunn, they make sense and off course not to forget Masonic Light who I personally voted for the way above.


Sorry, do you mean to say that Theron and I make sense, or that we don't? I have trouble making sense of what you've written here.



That's what I got out of it. I think he is saying that you, Theron, and ML all make sense. Can't argue with that.



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 11:19 PM
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First I would like to answer some of DF1’s questions; no I don’t consider what you said to be noise but fair criticism, I don’t pretend to be all knowing because what would I be doing here enlighten the peasants so no I don’t make that claim, I would like any real feedback as to what I write I don’t how ever have the SOLID PROOF I know you would like, if I had it well then I would probably be hiding in some bunker with my colt.
I do say try to connect the dots if that is a promise of success I am sorry I don’t grasp the language as well as you.
Well I think it’s pretty clear how the dots connect but again what am I to say, I will how ever try to point them out for you.

Bilderberg-UN-Free Masons
The Round Table
Rothschild’s-The Black Nobility
The Wardens

The top is lowest in the hierarchy this is a simple illustration on how I believe them to be connected.
And yes I am trying to live up to my end of the bargain, but as I say its hard work especially in all the translation I need to do, and also I don’t believe all the evidence to be on the internet so I have some stuff I need to scan into the computer but expect a couple of days before you will see that, the translations are almost done, I have found some interesting old Nordic scriptures that talks perhaps about my prison wardens.
And yes I will bring all the facts I have to this thread so you all can judge them for your selves, I am currently writing on them but I would like to double check them before I post them here (i.e. talk in private with friends about it)

LTD602 well what I can understand from the Danish university theology is primarily based on Christianity but you also get some Latin and *LOL* I don’t know what this is called in English but I translate it directly OLD TIME KNOWLEDGE, sounds funny though.
But the time you use on other religions are scarce.
Thank you for the compliment I will try my best to do that.

AK old buddy I meant what I wrote, perhaps I don’t make sense but I meant it.
I will clear the confusion out I think you make sense AK.
But I think you knew Alex you just wanted me to write it again.

Now I am going to bed in a short time so I won’t bring you a big post just now but I have all the time I need later today so you will get it there.
I will also bring most of the facts I believe I have in this post.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

[edit on 19-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

[edit on 19-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 11:27 PM
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I have a big penis.
I have a big penis.
I have a big penis.
..........



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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Yeah I was just pointing out the name of the Round Table is like the tale of King Arthur. I wasn't going down that path really.

I have no idea why people say anti-Semitic when they mean anti-Jewish. It's like saying anti-Solar System, when you mean anti-Jupiter. I don't get the impression that anything anti-Jewish, nor anything racist has been implied whatsoever - this is diversionary, and this topic has obviously hit a nerve or two... good!

BTW, it is not a crime to be anti-religion. With freedom of religion comes equal rights and protection from governmental discrimination for all beliefs.. including atheists, nihilists, satanists, illuminists.. whoever.

I see quite a bit of anti-ConnectingDotters within these posts. The ConnectingDot religion is special to me, and I will try and ignore your harsh words. You have two ears and one mouth, so it makes sense to use your ears more than your mouth.. m'kay? Stop being spoil-sports. Why do you want to tear down this thread? The New World Order is real and has been incrementally enstated over many years.

Can I pop this pic in here?



(A) Jim Tucker, as I mentioned as being a champion, has actually snuck in, and attempted to sneak in to many Bilderberg meetings for years. I suggest taking the advise of the site and regularly backing up www.bilderberg.org using a program like HTTrack, wget or Teleport. While there is probably a little "unsubstantiated opinions and gas" most of the site isn't.

(B) Yes it seems the hexagram wasn't always a jewish symbol, and like most other major religions, judaism was infiltrated. There's lots of evidence in regards to Hitler being a puppet of the Rothschilds with the American intelligence/banking
sector.

How about (B)(i) Pre- Mayer Amschel Rothschild
and (B)(ii) Post- Mayer Amschel Rothschild

(ii) Mayer Amschel Rothschild (1744-1812)
- Sons: Amschel (1773-1855) (based in Frankfurt, Germany)
Salomon or Salmon (1774-1855) (based in Vienna, Austria)
Nathan (1777-1836) (based in London, England)
Karl or Kalmann (1788-1855) (Naples, Italy)
James (1792-1868) (Paris, France)

(last brackets after names shows where they were basing their banking).

Their coat-of-arms contains a clenched fist with five arrows symbolising the five sons of Mayer, and the family motto is Concordia, Integritas, Industria (Unity, Integrity, Diligence).

What happened in 1855?


(D) Yeah, it seems the Crown is like the world Royal Family. Under the World Government, they would become the Royal Family publicly, I suspect.

(E) This is like haystack needles. A site I only visited last week which had a bit on the Committee of 300 is now taken down; another I visited before also taken down (don't trust free hosts to keep your site up). Here's an interesting quote from www.whale.to...

The Order of the Garter is the secret inner group which is an elite group within the Order of St. John of Jerusalem which is the British part of the Knights of Malta. The Knights of the Garter are the leaders of the Committee of 300. They are diabolical men. Lord Peter Carrington, who is a member of the satanic Order of Osiris and other demonic groups is a member of the Order of the Garter. Lord Palmerston is an example from history of another similar example of a Knight of the Garter who was totally corrupt, pretended to be a Christian, and practiced Satanism.

This committee of 300 is modeled after the British East India Company's Council of 300, founded by the British aristocracy in 1727. Most of its immense wealth arose out of the opium trade with China. This group is responsible for the phony drug wars here in the U.S. These phony drug wars were to get us to give away our constitutional rights. Asset forfeiture is a prime example, where huge assets can be seized without trail and no proof of guilt needed. Also the Committee of 300 long ago decreed that there shall be a smaller-much smaller-and better world, that is, their idea of what constitutes a better world.

Pic from above site:



and from illuminati-news.com...

The most powerful of the Black Nobility families are located in Italy, Germany, Switzerland, Britain, Holland and Greece in that order. Their roots may be traced back to the Venetian oligarchs, who are of Khazar extraction, and married into these royal houses in the early part of the twelfth century. (Following a great Khazar victory over the Arabs, the future Emperor, Constantine V, married a Khazar princess and their son became Emperor Leo IV, also known as "Leo the Khazar". The Medecci popes, and Pius XII (Eugenio Pacelli) were Khazars, as is the present Pope, John Paul II. Not all Black Nobility are royal houses, and many of the royal families no longer have kingdoms. According to researcher and author Dr. John Coleman, a "Committee of 300" was established early in the eighteenth century, "although it did not take on its present form until around 1897", (when the China opium trade was legalised)

(F) How about trying to get a timeline of the history of Freemasonry, and offshoots such as the Rosicrucians, Orange Order and the OTO.

(G) NASA have a satellite orbitting Mars taking pictures, but it's impossible to view the pictures live, or even delayed. NASA release the photos they wish to show, and while this whole letter (G) is probably conjecture, there has been convincing conjecture that photos released by NASA of Mars have been doctored.

Well, there is so much, and so many dots, that I believe we are just getting started.. ignoring the naysayers for now, I hope they can eventually be convinced that this is no mere anti-boredom exercise, but a grand attempt at revealing the all-too-long concealed puppet strings.


[edit on 20/8/04 by stoneskull]



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 10:11 AM
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I couldn't find the exact page I was looking for regarding the unknown material of the Great Pyramid mortar, but I found it mentioned on a few sites, including this pretty good page:

www.crystalinks.com...


The mortar used is of an unknown origin. It has been analyzed and it's chemical composition is known but it can't be reproduced. It is stronger than the stone and still holding up today.


And seeing as Carbon Dating tests were done on the mortar, I think that also puts a lot of doubt into the question of how old the pyramids really are.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Well geography isn’t my strongest subject but I would swear that the old Khazarian Empire is located in what is today called Russia, but hey what do I know I am just a fruit loop right?


see... any accurate and interesting points about bilerberg, the world capital/power conspiracies you do make, you let down with basic.. mega-flawed bullsh*t... i mean.. the bread n butter stuff...

and then you try to downplay thse flaws by going 'ohh you think Im a fruit loop right???'. I dont think you're a fruit loop.. just too overtly simplistic.

just to continue the little (but important) knitpick...
Ethnic Russians come from European russia.. Khazars from the steppes. One conqured the other.. than visa versa...

If you want to find credible theories for the harder to prove stuff (something I totally applaud) get the basic bullsh*t right... and leave out the ethnic slurring...

now I leave this thread for ever...

phew!


df1

posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 11:10 AM
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NeonHelmet: Your response is fair enough. I will be watching your progress with interest, though at this time I continue to have substantial doubts as to whether anything other than blurry lines can be drawn between the orgranizations you mention. Two of the dots you mention are particularly conspicuous with regard to the 7 organizations. These are the Freemasons and the wardens.

The Freemasons standout because they are uniquely accessible relative to the other organizations you discuss in that you can speak with individual Freemasons on ATS, via Email or even visit a Freemason Lodge and Freemasons will respond to your queries, whereas the other organizations are beyond your reach in terms of being able to communicate with them on a day to day basis. Also should you so desire the Freemasons allow the opportunity for you to petition for membership, again this is not generally possible with the other organizations. I have in fact visited a Freemason Lodge local to me and shared breakfast with its members. I do not see it as likely that I will be sharing breakfast with the Bilderberg group, the Rothchilds, the Round Table, Black Nobility or the UN, so I am somewhat miffed that anyone would casually lump Freemasonry together with these groups. As such, I do believe Freemasons belong as one of your dots.

The Wardens, as you call them, are described by you as being from a completely different plain of existance from mortal man. Presuming that the Wardens exist at all, me and you live in the physical world and are unable to even fathom the stuff of spirits and legends that rule their plain of existance. While perhaps worthy of examination by themselves, I do not believe the Wardens belong as part of the organizations you have itemized as major players in the NWO.

IMHO it would serve you well to focus on the first 5 dots as I believe that some very real connections can be drawn between these 5 dots if you do not muddy the waters with the Freemasons and the Wardens.


Originally posted by stoneskull The ConnectingDot religion is special to me...

It seems to me that with the illustrations you provided, that have expanded NeonHelmet's investigation to include every grain of sand on the planet. In the ultimate sense everything is related in some manner, but that does mean everything is part of the NWO conspiracy.

Do you think that connecting the dots is meaningful when you provide so many dots that the dots touch without drawing any connecting lines?

PS: My personal position is that by reigning in corporations, you will effectively reign in the NWO. Checkout the link in my signature.



[edit on 20-8-2004 by df1]



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by stoneskull
(F) How about trying to get a timeline of the history of Freemasonry, and offshoots such as the Rosicrucians, Orange Order and the OTO.


The OTO is actually an offshoot of the Golden Dawn, which is was developed as a para-SRIA magical organisation, which in turn was developed as a para-Masonic Rosicrucian organisation.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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It seems to me that with the illustrations you provided, that have expanded NeonHelmet's investigation to include every grain of sand on the planet. In the ultimate sense everything is related in some manner, but that does mean everything is part of the NWO conspiracy.


There's only a finite amount of grains of sand on those ilustrations.


Do you think that connecting the dots is meaningful when you provide so many dots that the dots touch without drawing any connecting lines?


Again, the dots are finite, I think we're just getting started, and I was being facetious about the ConnectDotter religion... although, as L Ron Hubbard said "The easiest way to make a million dollars is to start your own religion"... Anyone wanna join the "Connectors"? I'll give you a free personality test.


[edit on 20/8/04 by stoneskull]



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 11:58 AM
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Sorry, but I just had to say great post df1.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:38 PM
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(F) Let's start right now.

Freemasonry (and the OTO) can be linked back to the original Order of the Temple, the Knights Templar. They were suppressed in 1314. There is reason to believe that Freemasonry does not go back to the time of King Solomon, but was a continuation of the Order of the Temple, and perhaps the murdered Hiram was really Jacques de Molay, the martyred Grand Master of the Templars.

The idea of an historical connection between masonry and the
Crusading Orders received the enthusiastic support of the Chevalier Ramsay, a Jacobite exile — he was the private tutor of the Young Pretender, Bonnie Prince Charlie — who was also an active freemason.

Ramsay said:

‘At the time of the Crusades in Palestine many princes, lords, and citizens associated themselves, and vowed to restore the Temple of the Christians in the Holy Land, and to employ themselves in bringing back their architecture to its first institution. They agreed upon several ancient signs and symbolic words drawn from the well of religion in order to recognize themselves amongst the heathens and Saracens.

These signs and words were only communicated to those who promised solemnly, and sometimes at the foot of the altar, never to reveal them. This sacred promise was therefore not an execrable oath, as it has been called, but a respectable bond to unite Christians of all nationalities into one confraternity. Some time afterwards our Order formed an intimate union with the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem. From that time our Lodges took the name of Lodges of St. John.’

These and similar speculations inspired the manufacture of several spurious ‘Templar’ masonic side-degrees. The first of these was very probably the still surviving Royal Order of Scotland, organized into two degrees, that of the Royal Order of H.R.M. (Heredom) and that of the Knights of the R.S.Y.C.S. (Rosy Cross). According to the legend of this Order its origins lay in the arrival of Pierre d’Aumont and seven other Templars, refugees from persecution, in the island of Mull, situated off the coast of Scotland. The supposed incident was described, from a hostile point of view, by a member of a rival ‘Templar’ Order:

‘After the death of Jacques de Molay, some Scottish Templars having become apostates at the instigation of Robert Bruce ranged themselves under the banner of a new Order instituted by this prince and in which the receptions were based on those of the Order of the Temple. It is there that we must seek the origin of Scottish Masonry and even that of the other masonic rites.'

The Scottish Templars were excommunicated in 1324 by Larmenius, who declared them to be Temple desertores and with the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem, Dominiorum Militae spoliatores, placed for ever outside the pale of the Temple ... A similar anathema has since been launched by several Grand Masters against Templars who were rebellious to legitimate authority. From the schism that was introduced into Scotland a number of sects took birth.

...Lots more to come, including next: the connection to qabalistic magic; and the Rosy Cross/Rose-Croix/Scottish Rite 18th degree connection.


df1

posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:42 PM
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Originally posted by stoneskull
There's only a finite amount of grains of sand on those ilustrations.

Finite is not the issue. 10 is finite number, as is 100 or even 10,000,000,000. As I recall, you stated earlier, perhaps in another thread, that you have many more illustrations, enough to fill pages of threads. I have no doubt that this can be accomplished, but I just do not see the point.

It seems to me that the challenge should be to provide facts connecting the handful of dots in NeonHelmet's first group of dots before you go adding more dots. The lines on your charts do not establish a connection between NeonHelmet's dots or even between your new dots with facts, without facts they are just arbitrary graphic lines. Perhaps others will be more satisfied with your pictures of new dots, but I for one am not satisfied. If some reasonable limits are not put on this bucket of dots, I will quickly lose interest in this thread and leave it to those that prefer counting dots rather than connecting dots.

Patiently waiting for the first connection.
.



posted on Aug, 20 2004 @ 12:45 PM
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Stoneskull, I know you're a clever guy, but you've got things all mixed around. First of all, the Chevalier Ramsay did not "support" Masons being related to the Templars -- there's a lot of evidence that he made the whole thing up! I would suggest the book "The Murdered Magicians." Secondly, no, I stand by what I said... the OTO traces its history back only to 1885, as is described on the American OTO Grand Lodge Web Page. I may have been wrong about the placement of the Golden Dawn in the procession (Masonic Light will have more info), but as you can see, there is no doubt whatsoever that the OTO was the product of Kellner & Reuss' ingenuity, rather than some fantastic "descent from Templars."





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