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Karma and destiny: Why they don't make sense

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posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 03:58 PM
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In general we believe in the law of action and reaction as promoted by science.
The reason we believe this law is because unconsciously we feel separated from this canon. We feel it only refer to every thing else then us.
And then we see life as an outsider or an observer of all, narcissism is our sort of guide line in viewing this action and reaction stuff.
Now really, scientist and other states that the law of action and reaction is universal for all matter...meaning you are included in this equation (because your body is made of matter), you can observer it as you want ...you can't escape it as you like.
Now karma is that, a system of action and reaction that goes around and round until you wise up.
You know what it take to wise up?

Karma is just a wave where you lay down your action as they bounce against the ripple of your life
edit on 16-8-2011 by kacou because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-8-2011 by kacou because: I wrote 2 "of".




posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by WWu777

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
I totally disagree that one must be "enlightened" to understand these issues. In fact I find it can be viewed rather simply.

Destiny must be followed else it wouldn't be destiny. Destiny encompasses the individual life whether celebrated or mundane. But this does not exclude the influence of free will. Think of it as a tree where there are many individual branches all stemming from the same trunk. There are a variety of paths but they all lead to the same place inevitably.

Karma also must be followed but just because someone is kind and loving, a good leader, a great husband, a worthy teacher, etc. in this life does not mean they were so in a previous life and their murders are likely the result of karma stemming from a previous life. By this token it can be easy to view why so many of the "good" suffer. We live in an evil age, the Kali Yuga (not the goddess but the demon), where a great many crimes have been perpetrated over the centuries and all must be atoned for. Hence the great suffering we see all around us.

But there is also bounty and beauty. It's too easy to get caught up in what is wrong with the world and loose sight of what is right.

Also the assassination of a great leader often seems not to inhibit their work, but propel it does it not? Things aren't always black and white. In fact they rarely are.
edit on 16/8/11 by TravelerintheDark because: because


The problem with that copout is that you can't prove it's true. And if it is not, then you are exercising victim-blaming on the innocent. Do you realize that? Therefore, anyone you see suffering unjustly must be guilty of something in a previous life. Isn't that stereotyping? What if it's wrong? Then you'd be unjustly blaming the victims, wouldn't you? Have you considered that?


I don't claim to know anything with any certainty and so I'm not able to prove anything, nor am I laying blame on anyone. Being the victim of traumatic abuse, I know from whence I speak though. Do you? How quick you are to judge me yet deny the judgment of the universe. Have you considered how such a mentality might actually lead to the unjust victimization you describe?
edit on 16/8/11 by TravelerintheDark because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by WWu777
 


As a wise man once said, you will understand these things when you become liberated. Until then, they will simply be philosophical mental play. Or in other words, to try and conceptually understand these things without first being liberated, is futile at best.

Peace.


In other words, it's one more unproven and unprovable religious 'idea' which may be one more lie used to control the underdogs.


Maybe, or maybe not. The law of cause and effect is surely provable for anyone, and this is the base definition of Karma. It works both on the physical level and the mental level. But then there are those who tie Karma in with reincarnation, and to see if they are correct you cannot simply use conventional knowledge. You must master and learn how to transcend the mind to see the deeper realities of life. You may scoff at this, but there are many mysteries in the world that the average person cannot conventionally grasp, for the simple reason, that they try to understand these things solely through intellectualism which results in a very limited and narrow perception of reality.

Peace.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy

Maybe, or maybe not. The law of cause and effect is surely provable for anyone, and this is the base definition of Karma. It works both on the physical level and the mental level. But then there are those who tie Karma in with reincarnation, and to see if they are correct you cannot simply use conventional knowledge. You must master and learn how to transcend the mind to see the deeper realities of life. You may scoff at this, but there are many mysteries in the world that the average person cannot conventionally grasp, for the simple reason, that they try to understand these things solely through intellectualism which results in a very limited and narrow perception of reality.

Peace.


Exactly, that's precisely why I used the word 'may'.

If karma isn't tied to reincarnation there really is no evidence at all to support that it exists. You seem to be taking the position that your own spiritual knowledge is superior, that's often a foolish assumption to make,


edit on 16-8-2011 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Sorry, but what?


Please define what you believe these words mean: Karma, Reincarnation, "Spiritual Knowledge".

Peace.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsEnergy
reply to post by wcitizen
 


Sorry, but what?


Please define what you believe these words mean: Karma, Reincarnation, "Spiritual Knowledge".

Peace.


To be brief:

Karma - actions. Karma vipaka - the fruits of one's actions.

The Law of Karma: - Actions carried out with positive intent (as per the precepts) create positive karma vipaka.
Actions carried out with negative intent create negative karma vipaka.

Positive karma vipaka: moves one closer to liberation.

Negative karma vipaka: moves one further away from liberation

Reincarnation: The volition of one's sanskaras which result, after death, in the consciousness manifesting in a physical form once again.

Spiritual knowledge: Different meanings.
Knowledge through direct spiritual experience - the highest form of spiritual knowledge.
Intellectual grasp of spiritual concepts not yet realised in one's experience, often accompanied by an egotistic tendency to mistake intellectual understanding as spiritual attainment. Also often expressed as a deluded sense of superiority.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by wcitizen
 


Thank you. I just realized that our friend Yuttadhammo made a video a few days ago about this very subject. He can explain it much more thoroughly than I can.



Peace friend.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:34 PM
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Karma relates to consequence for actions that harm others, relating to grade, maturity of soul, like unto like affinity, for our next step relates to our frequency and awareness of the opposition here. Choosing to override the programming here and ourselves as well.

Destiny, is less defined. For from the concurrent position of our lives, we're walking the footsteps now, in real "time" where there is no "time" but perception and clips that are infinite, hanging in infinity like infinite scenes or clips of a movie or film. So we, with free will, have choices we make, and it affects the world around us or our lives. However, the Future/Higher Self, that has progressed beyond this universe/school, at one point in "time" or another, sees all as finished and the past. So from that perspective this is the past, and all events that will occur, have already occurred.



posted on May, 1 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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There's something about karma I don't get. Suppose I did something wrong to someone, or even killed him. Now if he deserved it due to something he did in the past or bad karma in a past life, then I would have dealt him the karma he deserved. So in that sense, I would have been an agent of karma right? If so, then would I be punished and accrue bad karma for my action too? The thing is, if I was delivering someone his own karma, then why would I be guilty of anything?

But on the other hand, if he had no bad karma, then why would karma let me do something bad to him?

Have any of you ever wondered about this?



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 05:06 AM
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Originally posted by WWu777
There's something about karma I don't get. Suppose I did something wrong to someone, or even killed him. Now if he deserved it due to something he did in the past or bad karma in a past life, then I would have dealt him the karma he deserved. So in that sense, I would have been an agent of karma right? If so, then would I be punished and accrue bad karma for my action too? The thing is, if I was delivering someone his own karma, then why would I be guilty of anything?

But on the other hand, if he had no bad karma, then why would karma let me do something bad to him?

Have any of you ever wondered about this?


There is no such thing as 'Karma'. It is just something invented in the Hindu religion like the 'Sin' found in Christianity that must be repented. Obviously the priests wanted the general population to behave and keep them under control so they frighten people by telling them that there is a God that will punish people for 'bad' behavior.

There is no such thing as good-for-good, bad-for-bad Karma. There is only cause and effect, souls' experiencing of human restrictions, souls' experiencing of ignorance etc

Souls are here to experience human restrictions/limitations, so they will definitely experience suffering. Whoever creates the suffering does not matter. Life is preplanned by souls themselves. So no one is guilty of anything.

People often misunderstood the human's experience of restrictions/suffering as bad 'karma'. However, it is just experience that souls wanted to experience.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 07:16 AM
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I agree with that. Karma is just a slave mentality, especially if you believe in karma from other life times, I feel bad for those that actually believe such stuff.



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by timerty

Originally posted by WWu777
There's something about karma I don't get. Suppose I did something wrong to someone, or even killed him. Now if he deserved it due to something he did in the past or bad karma in a past life, then I would have dealt him the karma he deserved. So in that sense, I would have been an agent of karma right? If so, then would I be punished and accrue bad karma for my action too? The thing is, if I was delivering someone his own karma, then why would I be guilty of anything?

But on the other hand, if he had no bad karma, then why would karma let me do something bad to him?

Have any of you ever wondered about this?


There is no such thing as 'Karma'. It is just something invented in the Hindu religion like the 'Sin' found in Christianity that must be repented. Obviously the priests wanted the general population to behave and keep them under control so they frighten people by telling them that there is a God that will punish people for 'bad' behavior.

There is no such thing as good-for-good, bad-for-bad Karma. There is only cause and effect, souls' experiencing of human restrictions, souls' experiencing of ignorance etc

Souls are here to experience human restrictions/limitations, so they will definitely experience suffering. Whoever creates the suffering does not matter. Life is preplanned by souls themselves. So no one is guilty of anything.

People often misunderstood the human's experience of restrictions/suffering as bad 'karma'. However, it is just experience that souls wanted to experience.



Does that mean that evil people don't get punished for their deeds, and good people don't get rewarded? Why be good then?



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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You can choose to do whatever you want! In the end however it has already been written. Possibly. We don't know that for sure. But if we really study the notion. It seems very likely. We have to many things in life that tell us what was will be again. As if we are listening to the end of a song that we are just going to come back and listen to later.

Karma is the reward and punishment system for you actions ie destiny. You need those rewards to help you keep the beat. Punishments are ofcourse the balances needed to show you that your not the only one capable of doing wrong. You do wrong so Karma does you wrong.

Sometimes what the individual percieves as punishment is actually a blessing in disguise. Would Jesus be so great had he lived a full enitre life? Had Paul been so revered had he not been martyred?

Think about this once you have achieved your full destiny like a Paul acting out "god's" will is there any more use for you? Why not kill him and make people go back and look at his life. Then we say how could anyone have wanted to kill him? Then he becomes special does he not?

Blessings in disguise. Sometimes they are what we need to make us shine the most.



posted on May, 7 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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destiny is on condition of karma

which in turn determines/seals fate.

keep da faith!




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