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Good use of logic in the question of, Is God Real?

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posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:24 PM
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I read this about two years ago. Being an atheist I thought it was a good,logical, practical arguement for my own view. It is about an easy an example as I can see it, of showing the illogical thought of an "Omni powerful being"

It shows the true failure of the christian thought process. I'll take logic,math, science, and my own life experience. I'll keep on being human & being human towards those I meet. Life is short, this we all know. I simply cannot live mine in a certain way as to satisfy something written in a book, when the reward promised is in no way been proven.


godisimaginary.com...




posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:26 PM
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posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by XplanetX
 


Good quesions in the link. I really like # 10 . Do I as an atheist believe in E.T's ? Seeing how the largest religious institution in the world " The Catholic Church" owns the biggest bi-nocular view telescope on the planet ( Located at U Of Arizona) What could they be looking for ? God via a mothership?

I beleive in alot of things, to be quite honest..... I would say say I'm more agnostic about the whole alien existance stuff. When they land in my field I'll belive it, And when God scares them away, I'll belive in him/her.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by openyourmind1262
 


You know what I love about atheists???


They look for validation of their own personal beliefs and views as much as religous people do.


And then, they do the exact same thing...try to show how they are "right".


I find it all very amusing.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by openyourmind1262
I read this about two years ago. Being an atheist I thought it was a good,logical, practical arguement for my own view. It is about an easy an example as I can see it, of showing the illogical thought of an "Omni powerful being"


godisimaginary.com...


Illogical? How so? Is it your belief that because there are things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents, that there can therefore not be a God? Why can those things exist without a God, but not with a God? Makes no sense. Those things happen regardless of whether God exists or not, don't you see? There are many other conclusions you can draw as well, such as God is ambivalent towards us, or there is a war being waged between God and Satan (good and evil) and that these things are a manifestation of the evil side of this, or that this is some kind of lesson we're being taught to better ourselves. I always find it odd that of the myriad answer choices for a question such as this that the atheist will skip across dozens of options that involve a God and latch onto the only one that precludes there being a God. THAT is illogical.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:23 PM
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I knew before I even read this that this thread was going to bash the exsistance of Yah. I think you need to use your logic and math and thinking just a little bit more Mr. "I'm on a high pedistal". Something gave you that knowledge and if you try to argue "No, someone, another human gave me that knowledge." Someone gave them that knowledge too... You can't disprove the existance of Yah merely by saying you know math and logic or saying that you think a lot. A lot of people would see having faith in a "God" is a logical choice, because it strengthens a person's spirit and personal ambition.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 12:10 AM
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1: Prayer is a form of belief. Scientifically speaking, cancer patients who regularly pray, have spiritual support, or believe that they'll get better have a better chance than those who live in the cancer.

2. Refer to #1

3. This has no proof whatsoever. This just proves that people have worshiped gods throughout the ages. Logic? Hardly.

4. Check this guy out.

5. I agree with the fact that the bible is wrong. It has been mistranslated over the years, but this does NOT disprove the existance of a higher power. It just proves human error.

6. "God's plan" is a subjective ideal and therefore irrelevant.

7. If I was to see a ghost, and you didn't, does that mean I didn't see it? You're on ATS for god's sake. Weird # happens every day.

8. This one, I can agree with. People with all faiths have had NDEs in which they see their respective deities. This does not disprove there is no higher power. It just minimalizes the importance of NDEs.

9. See #4

10. Really? People not giving money to a church does not disprove the existance of a higher power.

This link is full of fuzzy logic. I'm only going through these 10, not to advocate christianity (as I'm NOT a christian), but to point out flaws in logic.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by openyourmind1262
I read this about two years ago. Being an atheist I thought it was a good,logical, practical arguement for my own view. It is about an easy an example as I can see it, of showing the illogical thought of an "Omni powerful being"

It shows the true failure of the christian thought process. I'll take logic,math, science, and my own life experience. I'll keep on being human & being human towards those I meet. Life is short, this we all know. I simply cannot live mine in a certain way as to satisfy something written in a book, when the reward promised is in no way been proven.


godisimaginary.com...


I have no problem whatsoever with atheists wanting to justify what they believe. As a Christian, I don't feel threatened by that - God's big enough to handle whatever you might want to throw at him.

With that said though, I think there's an element here that you, as an atheist, should avoid.

If you want to criticise God, do it on God's terms; do it in His words, according to His own claims...
not according to the claims of someone like Rick Warren. I think it's a mistake to assume that a teacher (ANY teacher) is an accurate representation of God and His thoughts and opinions. Like the Bible itself says, "your ways are not my ways; your thoughts are not my thoughts."

The Bible claims that "all Scripture is God-breathed, and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"...

so if you want to prove God on any level, that's the place to start. Prove to me from the Bible that my God is a contradiction. Prove to me from God's own Words that He is illogical. Prove to me from the Bible that the God described within can't possibly be real, or isn't what I think He is.

After all, in logical debate, that's where it all begins. You have a premise, and you then debate that premise either for or against. You've got your premise: The Bible. Debate away, but do it on those grounds, because that's where the Christian also stands. To undercut me, to undercut God... that's where you must start.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by Awen24
 


With all due respect, even if you were presented with contradictions within biblical text, you would probably try to justify them in some form or fashion. I am not saying this to say anything negative about you; I am only saying that you seem to be firmly rooted in your beliefs and it would take more than a few contradictions in the bible to shake your foundation.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by openyourmind1262
 


You know what I love about atheists???


They look for validation of their own personal beliefs and views as much as religous people do.


And then, they do the exact same thing...try to show how they are "right".


I find it all very amusing.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by openyourmind1262
 


As with any debate,one tries to find any evidence that bolsters their arguement. Do they not? Is the phyiscal evidence we have discarded as evidence? (ex: a whole bunch of fossils of dinosaurs). Or will the logic in belief of God be that God scattered the fossils & bones to test our faith? No. Logicical thinking & science tells us, the bones & fossils are real tangible hold in your hand evidence to bolster the side of God is imaginary.

Sorry for replying to myself, I'm new, give me time, it would be the christian thing to do.
edit on 16-8-2011 by openyourmind1262 because: replied to myself, feeling dumb



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by SavedOne
 


Saying a war between good & evil exists is in it self and illogical statement.Is it not? Is this war amongst us humans or among Gods? I my self habe never seen a God kill a human, but I have sure seen humans kill humans for a variety of reasons. MOST IN THE NAME OF GOD.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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godisimaginary.com...
reply to post by Awen24
 

Can you use logic to explain the liked quoted verse's. If not, ?? Or will you chose to ignor it or offer a gambit of reasons around them?
edit on 16-8-2011 by openyourmind1262 because: forgot link



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by scolai
 


As well as I am firmly rooted in my beleif that God is imaginary. I could sit here all day and give contradictions the bible contains, as well as the other side could as well...



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by scolai
1: Prayer is a form of belief. Scientifically speaking, cancer patients who regularly pray, have spiritual support, or believe that they'll get better have a better chance than those who live in the cancer.

2. Refer to #1

3. This has no proof whatsoever. This just proves that people have worshiped gods throughout the ages. Logic? Hardly.

4. Check this guy out.

5. I agree with the fact that the bible is wrong. It has been mistranslated over the years, but this does NOT disprove the existance of a higher power. It just proves human error.

6. "God's plan" is a subjective ideal and therefore irrelevant.

7. If I was to see a ghost, and you didn't, does that mean I didn't see it? You're on ATS for god's sake. Weird # happens every day.

8. This one, I can agree with. People with all faiths have had NDEs in which they see their respective deities. This does not disprove there is no higher power. It just minimalizes the importance of NDEs.

9. See #4

10. Really? People not giving money to a church does not disprove the existance of a higher power.

This link is full of fuzzy logic. I'm only going through these 10, not to advocate christianity (as I'm NOT a christian), but to point out flaws in logic.


I've not yet had the time to look at the finer points here (following up the links), but in general terms you present a very sensible perspective. My acclaim.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Originally posted by scolai
1: Prayer is a form of belief. Scientifically speaking, cancer patients who regularly pray, have spiritual support, or believe that they'll get better have a better chance than those who live in the cancer.

2. Refer to #1

3. This has no proof whatsoever. This just proves that people have worshiped gods throughout the ages. Logic? Hardly.

4. Check this guy out.

5. I agree with the fact that the bible is wrong. It has been mistranslated over the years, but this does NOT disprove the existance of a higher power. It just proves human error.

6. "God's plan" is a subjective ideal and therefore irrelevant.

7. If I was to see a ghost, and you didn't, does that mean I didn't see it? You're on ATS for god's sake. Weird # happens every day.

8. This one, I can agree with. People with all faiths have had NDEs in which they see their respective deities. This does not disprove there is no higher power. It just minimalizes the importance of NDEs.

9. See #4

10. Really? People not giving money to a church does not disprove the existance of a higher power.

This link is full of fuzzy logic. I'm only going through these 10, not to advocate christianity (as I'm NOT a christian), but to point out flaws in logic.


I've not yet had the time to look at the finer points here (following up the links), but in general terms you present a very sensible perspective. My acclaim.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:28 AM
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Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by openyourmind1262
 


As with any debate,one tries to find any evidence that bolsters their arguement. Do they not? Is the phyiscal evidence we have discarded as evidence? (ex: a whole bunch of fossils of dinosaurs). Or will the logic in belief of God be that God scattered the fossils & bones to test our faith? No. Logicical thinking & science tells us, the bones & fossils are real tangible hold in your hand evidence to bolster the side of God is imaginary.

Sorry for replying to myself, I'm new, give me time, it would be the christian thing to do.
edit on 16-8-2011 by openyourmind1262 because: replied to myself, feeling dumb



And now you are arguing about religion...not God. A specific belief like that has nothing to do with if god exist or not...it has to do if a specific religion is correct in their thinking or not.

For someone who talks about logic...you would think they would know the difference between an argument against the existence of god and an argument against a specific religion being correct.

Proving that a religion holds a belief that isn't logical does not in any way point to proof that "god is imaginary"....that is as illogical as saying I can show how illogical you are being, so you as an atheist is wrong, therefore god is real



I think you need to slow down, get a grasp on logic and don't rely on the arguments of others that you don't fully understand.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by openyourmind1262
reply to post by openyourmind1262
 


As with any debate,one tries to find any evidence that bolsters their arguement. Do they not? Is the phyiscal evidence we have discarded as evidence? (ex: a whole bunch of fossils of dinosaurs). Or will the logic in belief of God be that God scattered the fossils & bones to test our faith? No. Logicical thinking & science tells us, the bones & fossils are real tangible hold in your hand evidence to bolster the side of God is imaginary.

Sorry for replying to myself, I'm new, give me time, it would be the christian thing to do.
edit on 16-8-2011 by openyourmind1262 because: replied to myself, feeling dumb



And now you are arguing about religion...not God. A specific belief like that has nothing to do with if god exist or not...it has to do if a specific religion is correct in their thinking or not.

For someone who talks about logic...you would think they would know the difference between an argument against the existence of god and an argument against a specific religion being correct.

Proving that a religion holds a belief that isn't logical does not in any way point to proof that "god is imaginary"....that is as illogical as saying I can show how illogical you are being, so you as an atheist is wrong, therefore god is real



I think you need to slow down, get a grasp on logic and don't rely on the arguments of others that you don't fully understand.


Before starting to get so derogatory, it would have been a good idea of presenting the perspective you operate from. Practically ALL these debates on this forum functions on an unspoken agreement of pragmatic use of faith vs fact (or subjective vs objective).

It's not that I eventually disagree with you, your point is legitimate, but chill down on the character-attacks.
edit on 16-8-2011 by bogomil because: typo



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:15 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Where am I argueing about a specific religion.? They all have their own bibles, and each sect recognise's the other as being true. If you are a christian do you beleive the Muslim version? I would suppose it comes from my edit where I replied to myself and said it would be the christian thing to do? That's not an arguement by me about religion, it's me being sarcastic.

With all due respect, Outkast Searcher. You have an alien as an avatar and your mood states " Illogical"


"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither nor willing? Then why call him God" Epicurus 33AD.

The so called proof of gods existance is the bible. Correct? If massive flaws and contradictions fill the Bible and they can be shown. How is it logical to adhere to what it says? Is it pick and chose the verse's and sayings and stories that fit your particular arguement and ignore the contradictions. Because that's what I'm getting here.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by openyourmind1262
 



Where am I argueing about a specific religion.? They all have their own bibles, and each sect recognise's the other as being true. If you are a christian do you beleive the Muslim version? I would suppose it comes from my edit where I replied to myself and said it would be the christian thing to do? That's not an arguement by me about religion, it's me being sarcastic.


All of your arguments are against religion...none of them are against the existence of "god". If you can not see that clearly...then it just shows how confused you are.

If I inaccurately describe a computer to you and make all kinds of contradictions while doing so...does that mean that the computer doesn't exist???

You fail to see what you are doing, don't worry...you aren't the only atheist to do so. You equate an argument against religion as an argument against god. Believe me, I fully understand how illogical most if not all religions are...but you can't make a logical leap and claim that since religions are illogical or false, then that means god is imaginary.

You need to slow down in your thinking...you need to fully understand what you are trying to argue before you THINK you have some grand logical argument against "god". Feel free to argue against religions all you want...but make sure you stay focused on religion and not wander off and claim that your arguments prove "god" is imaginary.


With all due respect, Outkast Searcher. You have an alien as an avatar and your mood states " Illogical"


Yes, I have an alien as an avatar...and he is wearing headphones and sneakers...that MUST mean I believe in aliens that wear headphones and sneakers


And yes, my mood is most of the time illogical...and so is yours. It would be illogical to say otherwise. Unless of course you are arrogant...in which case you will probably feel like you live a perfectly logical life



"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able, and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither nor willing? Then why call him God" Epicurus 33AD.


Right out of the atheist handbook...and presented like it is shiny and new.

I don't claim to understand god...I don't claim I could describe god...only those with enough arrogance have tried to describe something that by their own illogical definitions is unknowable. And then only those who are equally arrogant take those definitions, poke holes in them, and claim that it proves god doesn't exist.

It in fact only proves one thing...humans describe things very poorly. We can't accurately describe what the color blue looks like without using a point of reference...but some are arrogant enough to think they can describe god. And then atheists are arrogant enough to think by using those descriptions of something they don't think is real, they can prove that said thing is not real...it is all very illogical...and it is a circle of arrogance that keeps on going and going.

Both sides want so desperately to be "right"...and both sides look like fools in trying to do so.


The so called proof of gods existance is the bible. Correct?


According to who???? Apparently according to YOU.


If massive flaws and contradictions fill the Bible and they can be shown. How is it logical to adhere to what it says? Is it pick and chose the verse's and sayings and stories that fit your particular arguement and ignore the contradictions. Because that's what I'm getting here.


How is it logical to make assumptions?

Please show me where I have mentioned the Bible, Christianity, or any specific religion?


You are so brainwashed by atheisim....is that logical? It truly amazes me how atheists do not realize how similar their thought process is to religous fundamentalist. :shk:



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