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Military pensions in the crosshair of Washington

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posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:08 PM
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This won't go down well in the military.

Radical overhaul of military retirement eyed

WASHINGTON - The military retirement system has long been considered untouchable - along with Social Security and Medicare. But in these days of soaring deficits, it seems everything is a potential target for budget cutters. A Pentagon-sponsored study says military pensions are no longer untouchable - they're unaffordable.

CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reports high-level, closely-held meetings are taking place at the Pentagon regarding a radical proposal to overhaul retirement for the nation's 1.4 million service members - a bedrock guarantee of military service.

The proposal comes from an influential panel of military advisors called the Defense Business Board. Their plan, laid out in a 24-page presentation "Modernizing the Military Retirement System," would eliminate the familiar system under which anyone who serves 20 years is eligible for retirement at half their salary. Instead, they'd get a 401k-style plan with government contributions.

They'd have to wait until normal retirement age.


Come on military, do your job, arrest the enemies of America, foreign AND DOMESTIC...aka the politicians who screwed America and their banking masters... you actually now have a self-interest reason to do so...
edit on 15-8-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:11 PM
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The moment war ceases, Is the moment life increases



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:13 PM
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Is this something the miltary men and women would be against do you think?

I don't know enough about the plans to comment further.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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Yeah, go ahead. Screw the military from their retirement. Ha. If there's one thing that'll get em motivated to turn the guns on the masters, it is money. Their OWN money, taken from them after the ironclad promise they made life decisions on. Literally.

I hope they do it. That will be the final straw. Good. Nothing else works. So take their money and retirement, and see if that works. Don't you military guys ever get tired of being used like little cockroaches? And now they're going to take your retirement money you risked your life over?



Haha. Get you some.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:27 PM
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Of all of the cuts that are proposed by those in DC this is not going to go well. The US Military made a promise to those who have served in the military when they served and were called to duty. The benefits are and were guaranteed in writing, as a contract between the United States of America and those who serve, and now the federal government is suggesting breaking that contract, breaching it, and renegotiating after they have gotten the service out of the veterans, and those currently serving in the US Military. If that is the case, then how can they prosecute those who would go AWOL or those who would refuse to do their duty or follow a lawful order? The federal government is playing with fire, and a dangerous game, as the veterans who served. Just caused that they are no longer in the military does not mean that they still do not possess the skills that they had.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:43 PM
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How about we reform Congressional pensions first?



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
Come on military, do your job, arrest the enemies of America, foreign AND DOMESTIC...aka the politicians who screwed America and their banking masters... you actually now have a self-interest reason to do so...
edit on 15-8-2011 by Vitchilo because: (no reason given)


First I was like :

Then I was like :

Then I was like


Now I'm like :



edit on 2011/8/15 by sbctinfantry because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:21 AM
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So...why is this bad? Name me another way you can retire at 38 with $2,000/month guaranteed for life.

There's a lot of really great, deserving members of the military. However, there is a disturbingly high level of hero worship afforded to lots of people who have done a lot less then others.

I'm a veteran, I don't salute every flag I see. I don't drop the fact looking for someone to open a door for me (literally or figuratively). I did a job and got paid.

Go ahead, hate me. I'm a veteran after all.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:46 AM
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Originally posted by links234
So...why is this bad? Name me another way you can retire at 38 with $2,000/month guaranteed for life.

There's a lot of really great, deserving members of the military. However, there is a disturbingly high level of hero worship afforded to lots of people who have done a lot less then others.

I'm a veteran, I don't salute every flag I see. I don't drop the fact looking for someone to open a door for me (literally or figuratively). I did a job and got paid.

Go ahead, hate me. I'm a veteran after all.


I don't mind changing the rules to it being 40 years to retire. I do have a problem with the argument that comes down the road when people realize what 40 years of hard military service does to the body, and I don't want to hear the whining when the VA is overrun.

Sure, a POG paperpusher can do the job 40 years, tell that to an infantryman who's been around the block and they'll just laugh at you.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:54 AM
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reply to post by links234
 


20 years of service takes away a lot of options that military members otherwise would have had.You don't have time to build a buisness, go to school, nurture buisness relationships etc...that a civilian can do. It is hell on your mind, body and relationships. Your never really the man you would have been once you have done the military for 20 years. It is a volunteer system that is successful in part due to its retirement benifit. You cut that you wont see people enlisting. Once that happens welcome to the draft when the next war comes around.

The retirement is part of their earnings. They earned the money while servering not after.
edit on 16-8-2011 by Xeven because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by Vitchilo
 
I don't have a problem with it. The return might be higher. But something has to be done for the guys and gals in the military. The pay sucks so a better than average return might be an extra benefit.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:08 PM
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I'm pretty sure the military would be fine if contractors weren't making six figure salaries doing the same job. It's really not a discussion anymore when you throw in that little fact, is it?

List of US Defense Contractors

List of Private Military Contractors

The sad thing is, you can't get a number on exactly how many contractors are actually working for the US government. The best number I can find is from 2007, that says for every five soldiers there is at least one contractor. I would add that they don't even explain that the average contractor makes far more than any enlisted man in the military, and at least as much as the higher ranking officers in the military. Once you start getting into the more specialized contractors, they are making six figures. Some make into the multiple hundreds of thousands a year.

But, we should cut the military.

edit on 2011/8/16 by sbctinfantry because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
The moment war ceases, Is the moment life increases


In all of recorded human history, there has never been peace. Don't be naive just because you happen to be living today.

There will always be war until humanity suicides.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by sbctinfantry
I'm pretty sure the military would be fine if contractors weren't making six figure salaries doing the same job. It's really not a discussion anymore when you throw in that little fact, is it?

List of US Defense Contractors

List of Private Military Contractors

The sad thing is, you can't get a number on exactly how many contractors are actually working for the US government. The best number I can find is from 2007, that says for every five soldiers there is at least one contractor. I would add that they don't even explain that the average contractor makes far more than any enlisted man in the military, and at least as much as the higher ranking officers in the military. Once you start getting into the more specialized contractors, they are making six figures. Some make into the multiple hundreds of thousands a year.

But, we should cut the military.

edit on 2011/8/16 by sbctinfantry because: (no reason given)


Yup. I was one of those contractors. But there are only 2 choices: militarize all the required infrastructure or contract it out.

When I was a young buck in uniform we mowed our own grass, took out our own trash. Then Bill Clinton became president and in came the contractors. Start the blame squarely with him.

EDIT: and I was making 6 figures. Left that job because my baby Jenday Conure, Chilly got sick and required hand feedings every 3 hours (literally) for 8 months to nurse her back to health.

The life of a parrot, my parrot, is worth more than $103K/year.
edit on 16-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by tangonine
 


How happy and healthy is Chilly now?



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 06:08 PM
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Originally posted by tangonine
Yup. I was one of those contractors. But there are only 2 choices: militarize all the required infrastructure or contract it out.

When I was a young buck in uniform we mowed our own grass, took out our own trash. Then Bill Clinton became president and in came the contractors. Start the blame squarely with him.

EDIT: and I was making 6 figures. Left that job because my baby Jenday Conure, Chilly got sick and required hand feedings every 3 hours (literally) for 8 months to nurse her back to health.

The life of a parrot, my parrot, is worth more than $103K/year.
edit on 16-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)


Congratulations on your wonderful paycheck, sir. I'm sure it was well earned, don't mind the stifled screams of the average US Citizen who is suffocating under the weight of your salary.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by sdcigarpig
 


Ya that's why they try to send us all home drugged up, so we're too messed up to act.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 12:04 AM
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reply to post by Xeven
 


The military (other than the infantry) affords a LOT of time to complete school. I've known plenty of people separate with masters degrees after six to eight years. I've also known people who squandered their time and left with nothing but experience. Business relationships? DoD contractors will consistently hire ex-military, there's some statistics I'd like to see...ratio of DoD contractors that are ex-military to average civilians.

I speak from experience, I'm doing the same job I did years ago in uniform...I get paid a lot more now though.



posted on Aug, 17 2011 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by links234
reply to post by Xeven
 


The military (other than the infantry) affords a LOT of time to complete school. I've known plenty of people separate with masters degrees after six to eight years. I've also known people who squandered their time and left with nothing but experience. Business relationships? DoD contractors will consistently hire ex-military, there's some statistics I'd like to see...ratio of DoD contractors that are ex-military to average civilians.

I speak from experience, I'm doing the same job I did years ago in uniform...I get paid a lot more now though.


Half of that is true. I would like to see numbers on infantryman that were promised college time as part of their reenlistment and were lied to. In my experience, that's a 100% lie rate.

The reality is that for the same pay, a POG ( Person other than grunt ) will work on average, 9-5. A grunt will work from 0530 to 1800 or later. That's 9 hours for a POG, and 12.5 for the grunt.

The POG will do half the amount of Physical Training, and is expected to be in about half as good a shape as the grunt, which is far harder on the body. I've seen my fair share of overweight, lazy pencil pushers.

The POG will spend almost no real time in the field, during training or combat operations. For example. The grunt will work in the field, sleeping on the ground and the POG will sleep in a bed.

The POG will get time to go to college, take off work early for family and any other needs.

The grunt will retire broken and worn. The POG will retire with degrees and more opportunities than the grunt.

But you know what? Grunts actually serve their country and not mooch off of it because they're actually making a sacrifice. I'm ok with that.

Nuff said.



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