America didn't do much in World War II (in Europe)

originally posted by: michaelbrux
But America was the ONLY man that fought this last war. While the rest of the so called 'men' of the world sat comfortably upon their thumbs waiting for the outcome.


no respect. no respect at all!

????? Sorry? Eh? Can you explain that?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes he can, but it wont make the blindest bit of sense.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
how did the USA " trade " with the 3rd riech ?

serious question

Excellent question...Ape...here try this one ..


Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony Sutton.



Also for your further reading.. and also by Anthony Sutton

National Suicide...Military Aid to the Soviet Union


America ..since privately and quietly giving up on the Monroe Doctrine has been in the business of joining the British Crown in it's doctrine of "Anglo Saxon Superiority and Rule of the World in the Boxer Rebellion and again having replaced the French during WW1.

Before WW1 it was the French who went out and died for the Crowns profits..but when it was learned that the French would not handle the Germans in the trenches...a new outfit needed to be found to replace the French. This outfit was the American Doughboy.

Since that time we have gone around the world fighting and dying for the Crown's profits..as a Junior Partner...just as did the French in the olde days.

We...like the Brits..have a habit of creating our own enemies...which is a tell tale sign of the system at work. Creating and arming our own enemies.


Someone several pages back posted the question as to whether American schools teach any real history.

For many years now ..Ameican Public schools have stopped teaching any real history ...but now only teach PC as passing for history. Anything of real history needed to be known a student or anyone interested must needs dig and research on their own and outside the mainstream sources to find any kind of truth.

Also much of what passes for history today in American Public Schools is the blame game...American is guilty from the beginning of every social and moral trespass all the way back to Adam and Eve. America is to be blamed for everything.
Guilt Programming...Guilt Propaganda.

Social conditioning and propaganda have long ago replaced any real history in America.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

You are correct so far as the education is concerned... Almost criminal. In fact I'd go so far as to say it is criminal.

But it's all out there to be found. Rather easily, too. Libraries. The interwebs.

As for dying/killing for the Crown? Somehow I doubt it. TPTB don't need the crown in order to take advantage of situations/cause situations to escalate to the point where "doughboys", and their grandkids go off to war.

We know the "truth" of the matter... Yet we continue to allow it to happen... Who bears the most responsibility? The instigators? Or the apathetic morons who allow it to happen, despite all the evidence around them?

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: orangetom1999

You are correct so far as the education is concerned... Almost criminal. In fact I'd go so far as to say it is criminal.

But it's all out there to be found. Rather easily, too. Libraries. The interwebs.

As for dying/killing for the Crown? Somehow I doubt it. TPTB don't need the crown in order to take advantage of situations/cause situations to escalate to the point where "doughboys", and their grandkids go off to war.

We know the "truth" of the matter... Yet we continue to allow it to happen... Who bears the most responsibility? The instigators? Or the apathetic morons who allow it to happen, despite all the evidence around them?

Seagull,

Wow!! I had not quite thought of it as being criminal in the lack of real education but it is good food for further thinking.
Thanks for that.

It is out there to be found..but not in places most people travel. However the home computer has made much of this information's more available than in years past. I still, however, like books for many things. I am in that manner olde school so to speak.

My, albeit, limited understanding is that the powers that be work for the Crown and the Crown steps in and directs them on occasion. The two gulf wars are a prime example of this. Also the arming of these North African Nations to overthrow their governments and replace them with radical Islamic regimes is also an example. For the arms they received were NATO arms..not Com Block arms. This initially came as a surprise to me. But it foretold of their controllers.

There is an olde Book out titled..

The Empire of the City...by E. C. Knuth.

In this short book about the Crown and the Brenton Woods Agreement leading to the creation of the United Nations...the author also describes the arms merchants working for the Crown and their affiliates to arm various nations and give plausible deniability under certain conditions. Also about mercenaries for hire.

It was clear to me just by brief views of the news that The Crown or the City as it is sometime called was still at work in this world. Radical Islam seems to be under their control and they nurture it when needed.

If you read "The Empire of the City" carefully ..it indicates that the Crown has been manipulating the Arab nations for over a hundred years now.

The Crown also operates under certain front groups in the East as well as in the West.

It is my belief that it is the Crown and its subsidiaries who created Communist China into the manufacturing Giant it is today after creating todays Japan, Germany, and also South Korea...into manufacturing areas..and after another war/conflict. When the profits projected in these first three areas seemed want to fall at some point down the road..they moved their operations to the new potential growth area, to Communist China and the resources followed.


This could not have happened without help from the west.

Here in this area...many many years ago..an entire railroad system was shipped to Communist China to help before a road system was developed.

Once again, and under orders, we are building our own enemies and competitors. Among the powers that be there are no loyalties to a nation or people. Only loyalties to their power, control, and profits. It is their Resource War.

The other proof of this to me was that fellow Gruber who recently was quoted as saying that they counted on the stupidity of the American people to get Obama Care passed...and he was correct.

The investment in the American People is in Stupidity....malleability..controllability..not in thinking and independence...particularly independent thinking. The lack of education is to me expressly for this purpose...to create a stupid and easily gullible people..gullible/controllable.

I have often asked myself how far such stupidity extends among many Americans..or other peoples in the world.

I believe that much thinking is today avoided and replaced by emotional drama controls passing for thinking..people thinking that they think but not aware that they are being controlled..put on a string. Myself included.

The recent riots surrounding these shootings and this occupy wall street events...are examples of controlled, malleable, guaranteed people reacting and not thinking.

Knowing some history about groups in the past like....Young Ireland, Young Italy, Young America, Young Turks..et al...you can see history repeating itself. Put whatever name you want on these groups..but it amounts to the same thing.

But most people have never heard of such a thing and believe that in years past the hippy protest movements and whatever came out of them was a new and original thing..it was not.

Mind you now..when I began to read of these other groups in history it was a shock and surprise to me back then..but not anymore.

I can do the same thing with the feminist groups, the racist groups, the homosexual groups..all tied to a master controller by their modus operandi....textbook emotional Victimization thinking/planning and the emotional results to follow.

Occupy Wall Street the same thing...emotional chaos management.

Well I think you get the point here.


We will soon enough be paying the price for our ignorance and bought/sold leadership ..or what passes for leadership today.

The problem is, and I believe some Americans are beginning to catch on to the pattern, that people are beginning to connect the dots to the understanding that our own leadership is selling, trading, and bartering our very souls for someone else's profits.

And historically it does not take a majority of people to catch on to this pattern and knowledge. I think this door to real knowledge is going to have to be closed to us soon enough..by further crisis management exercises. The creation of enemies of the state...or as Hegel was to say..."The State is god." A return back to absolute power in the hands of the state.

I also think the internet will be a prime target of this crisis management/censorship. This will be necessary to guarantee the correct results in the next war.

Thanks for your post Seagull..and also the concept that the lack of education or the tools to do real thinking is forbidden to many....Criminal....or at least managed away from many...by distractions.

Yup...How about those Redskins?? (Insert Team Name) How about NASCAR?? Dancing with the Stars?? et al.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

That may be the longest reply to any post I've ever made... Lot's of good thinking going on in it.

That book is now on my Barnes and Noble look for list, or Amazon, if it comes to that... Thanks.

I think we're using differing semantics to say essentially the same thing. Though I disagree with the thinking that there is some background force causing, and directing the events, and others, that you mention.

Where we come together is I agree that there are groups of people using these events to further agendas, which, of course, lead to other events that they'll use to further agenda...

So I think we're in agreement for the most part.

Thanks for making me think.

a reply to: seagull


Yes..indeed. No problem about you not entirely agreeing with me on some group or groups working together for a common goal.

I have thought this for a long time now...that these groups answer to a common goal..a common modus operandi..a common tune.

There are people who used to go around the States giving lectures on this pattern of thinking. Some of them were put in jail for so doing..getting people to awaken. Getting people to look beyond the sugar coated topping so to speak. This was before home computers. They never got main stream coverage until they were put in jail.

This is a bit crude but in my opinion..my biases... the only time someone in the control business wants us to awaken is long enough to get to a voting booth. But they need us to be emotional train wrecks on the emotional "victim dictum" bandwagon so that our votes are guaranteed, malleable, controllable, and predictable. I think this has been done successfully and many times by someone out here..particularly the media.


When you see this trail or fingerprint happening often enough through history...and with the same results..over and over again...I cannot help but think there is a trend line..a pattern...a series of dots if you like. This is what convinces me that there is a group behind it..the very modus operandi..the overall pattern...the overall trend line. That it is organized on certain levels incompressible to most people.


I am often want to say that the 9/11 hijackers destroyed the wrong target ..they should have shut down the media in this country for a few months.

I also don't see a difference in the so called "Two Party " system. I think the Republicans are Democrat Lite. They are a mirror on which the other party bumps the people back and forth..always tending towards the left...always more progressive and dumber. A Hegelian dialectic if you like.

Though I am not a Tea Party person..what convinced me of this..and I have been thinking this for over 15 years now that the Two Party system is a phony..is that both parties are against the Tea Party. This was the final confirmation of what I had been thinking for a long time now.

The two parties are nothing but a Hegelian Dialectic with the public caught in between. Both phony parties bumping the people down the road in the direction their masters want them to go. And the media is hip deep in this. All the media.

Well enough of that for now. I have work to do here.

Once again..thanks for your view of the education system being criminal. Good food for thought and puts a different light or hue on things. It is to me definitely diabolical by the absence of real history. Yes indeed....diabolical/criminal.

Thanks again..
Orangetom

originally posted by: orangetom1999

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
how did the USA " trade " with the 3rd riech ?

serious question

Excellent question...Ape...here try this one ..


Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony Sutton.



Also for your further reading.. and also by Anthony Sutton

National Suicide...Military Aid to the Soviet Union


America ..since privately and quietly giving up on the Monroe Doctrine has been in the business of joining the British Crown in it's doctrine of "Anglo Saxon Superiority and Rule of the World in the Boxer Rebellion and again having replaced the French during WW1.

Before WW1 it was the French who went out and died for the Crowns profits..but when it was learned that the French would not handle the Germans in the trenches...a new outfit needed to be found to replace the French. This outfit was the American Doughboy.

Since that time we have gone around the world fighting and dying for the Crown's profits..as a Junior Partner...just as did the French in the olde days.

We...like the Brits..have a habit of creating our own enemies...which is a tell tale sign of the system at work. Creating and arming our own enemies.


Someone several pages back posted the question as to whether American schools teach any real history.

For many years now ..Ameican Public schools have stopped teaching any real history ...but now only teach PC as passing for history. Anything of real history needed to be known a student or anyone interested must needs dig and research on their own and outside the mainstream sources to find any kind of truth.

Also much of what passes for history today in American Public Schools is the blame game...American is guilty from the beginning of every social and moral trespass all the way back to Adam and Eve. America is to be blamed for everything.
Guilt Programming...Guilt Propaganda.

Social conditioning and propaganda have long ago replaced any real history in America.

Thanks,
Orangetom

No, the above is wrong on so many levels that I barely know where to start. The French did know how to handle the Germans - see Verdun. And the First World War was the first time that the French had fought alongside the British in a meaningful manner since the Crimean War! So they were not fighting for any crown.

a reply to: bluemirage5

The A-bomb in reality was a small event.
The firebombing that was done did more damage than the a-bomb.
The big difference was that it was one plane and one bomb compared to hundreds of planes on a normal mission and thousands of bombs.
Lets compare Operation Meetinghouse 9the bombing of Tokyo on 9 March) with Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Tokyo Hiroshima Nagasaki
Dead 100,000+ 66,000 39,000
Injured 1,000,000 69,000 25,000
Building destroyed 250,000 60,000 50,000

As you can see the conventional bombing did more damage and caused more death then both a-bombs combined.


Just wanted to add the bombing of Dresden 35,000 - 135,000 dead. No one is sure on the number. The town almost completely destroyed.
Ref:
www.atomicarchive.com...
www.atomicarchive.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: misterbananas

tell that crock to Patton. I bet he'd go bananas mister. Battle of the Bulge of WW2 didn't amount to anything?

Why do you think the German military called the US marines Devil Dogs in WW1? Because the tenacity, courage and will of the US Marines reminded them of unrelenting hell hounds coming for that ass and it scared the S#*%! out of them worse than any other enemy the allies threw at them. I'm sure the US military's contributions were again felt just as much in WW2 by the Nazi's. just ask the ones who are now fertilizing the fields alongside major roadways over there creating all the beautiful poppies we see today.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Yeah, that didn't actually happen you know - the whole "Devil Dog" thing.

It's one of those myths that came about as a result of some propaganda by the US themselves.

The word they allegedly used was very rare in the German language (and the Grammar allegedly used in the "dispatch" mentioning them was totally wrong) and seems more likely, if they were to call them Devil Dogs, they'd use another term.

All though big battles are cool and look good on screen what likely gave the death blow to Germany in both WW1 and WW2 was the royal Navy blockade.

By the end of WW1 the Germans barely had the bullets to put in guns and its people were starving. In fact the USA/UK/France if they were not so obsessed with decisive victory's could have just held the front in a purely defensive fashion and Germany would have collapsed on its own accord.

That same problem is what encouraged Germany to overstretch itself taking Russia and North Africa as they knew the same problem of lacking resources would catch up. And it did. By 1944 they could barely find the fuel to put in there tanks and had massive metal shortages so they could not keep up with Russian and allied production.

Same problem with Japan. Once the US navy had the home Islands locked down plane production became almost impossible, they had to cannablise most there surviving surface navy to make new Aircraft as things got so bad for Japan and why they could not design any fighters later on to counter later Allied planes like mustangs or the newer spitfire designs.

originally posted by: michael1983l


Sad, very sad. Have you ever read a history book on the WW2 or are you assuming all of that of Hollywood movies? The Nazi's wanted the UK to join them from the start but they didn't. They may not have been as blessed as the US resource wise but when they were outnumbered like they clearly were the US would have had no chance against the Nazi machine if the UK surrendered as they would have controlled europe. It was initially the UK that stopped Germany from taking its grip on France and Africa. The US sisn't join the war until they were forced to. That is nothing to be proud of.

Normally I'm not one to jump into this sort of angry thread, other than a quick perusal; however, the US didn't want to join the war. The economy was finally starting to come back, and the citizenry did not want any part of the "war in Europe." (People still had memories of "the Great War" at that time. Further, the USA was losing cargo ships by the dozen to the German U-boat fleets in attempting to keep the UK supplied with war materiel, which indicates an indirect involvement.

The catalyst for the USA becoming directly involved in either war (Pacific or European) was the attack on Pearl Harbor. Directly after that Germany, Hitler specifically, declared war upon the USA. So Roosevelt obliged him. You can certainly educate yourself more about the political climate before, during and after the war. There are thousands of books out there.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
Further, the USA was losing cargo ships by the dozen to the German U-boat fleets in attempting to keep the UK supplied with war materiel, which indicates an indirect involvement.

Involvement use but I do get irked when Americans claim it "aid" or "charitable" help as it was all brought and paid for trade.

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
Further, the USA was losing cargo ships by the dozen to the German U-boat fleets in attempting to keep the UK supplied with war materiel, which indicates an indirect involvement.

I'd point out here that it took an age for the US to realise that the Royal Navy actually knew what it was talking about when advising ships to sail in convoys and not singularly, which is when the greatest losses occurred....

a reply to: crazyewok



I think thats very accurate what you just posted about the royal navies contribution to WW2. They were pretty lethal.

One thing about the royal navy. they were relentless in their hunts for german ships and boats. Look at the aggression and tenacity they exhibited in hunting down the Bismarck and sinking her. You guys weren't backing down from that fight for anything especially after the Hood and gave her no quarter or time to breath. She thought she was smart and could hide from you guys but she waz wrong baby. real wrong. Torpedo bomber peeps her, cripples her rudder and then it was rock n roll time for the royal navy and her gunners when they caught up to her.

originally posted by: crazyewok
All though big battles are cool and look good on screen what likely gave the death blow to Germany in both WW1 and WW2 was the royal Navy blockade.

By the end of WW1 the Germans barely had the bullets to put in guns and its people were starving. In fact the USA/UK/France if they were not so obsessed with decisive victory's could have just held the front in a purely defensive fashion and Germany would have collapsed on its own accord.

That same problem is what encouraged Germany to overstretch itself taking Russia and North Africa as they knew the same problem of lacking resources would catch up. And it did. By 1944 they could barely find the fuel to put in there tanks and had massive metal shortages so they could not keep up with Russian and allied production.

Same problem with Japan. Once the US navy had the home Islands locked down plane production became almost impossible, they had to cannablise most there surviving surface navy to make new Aircraft as things got so bad for Japan and why they could not design any fighters later on to counter later Allied planes like mustangs or the newer spitfire designs.

On the face of it, this may seem a bit far fetched but in point of fact there is an awful lot of truth to it. The German and Japanese war efforts started crumbling when the supplie started to dry up. The Carpet Bombing campaigns may have terrified the local poulace bit they did little to stop War Production. A prime example being one of the major ball bearing factories being repeatedly targeted by the Allies and yet production not stopping - how? They moved everything under ground.


As to the thread itself, i was going to lambast the author for his poor grasp of history, which in my view should be a crime! (taught history for a while, some things are just serious!). However, in fairness i have to say that some of the responses have been as toe curlingly embarrassing, and worse yet have been starred (thereby demonstrating an alarming lack of historical knowledge).

For point of fact fairness and balance, the US had no firm reason to get involved in a European war until after Pearl Harbour. The US had plenty of realistic reasons to get involved, but none that "they" (Government / Congress / Senate) could sell to the Public.

Basically though, Germany was so technology advanced that it took a team effort to bring them down. Without the Eastern Front, the West would have been over run. Without Western aid, code breaking and counter strikes, the Eastern Front would have been overwhelmed. Western efforts would have been impossible after 1940 without US assistance.

Equally, though, if the US had left it too late to help and Europe had fallen, it is almost inconvceivable that the US could have held out alone, for the same reasons that Europe had struggled. The German technological advantages were so numerous that most of them ended up running the space programs (and military-industrial complex) of both the US and USSR after the war.

This entire post is basically an extremely long winded way of saying what a sad premise. Team work is the way forward, as proved in the past........

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: crazyewok



I think thats very accurate what you just posted about the royal navies contribution to WW2. They were pretty lethal.

One thing about the royal navy. they were relentless in their hunts for german ships and boats. Look at the aggression and tenacity they exhibited in hunting down the Bismarck and sinking her. You guys weren't backing down from that fight for anything especially after the Hood and gave her no quarter or time to breath. She thought she was smart and could hide from you guys but she waz wrong baby. real wrong. Torpedo bomber peeps her, cripples her rudder and then it was rock n roll time for the royal navy and her gunners when they caught up to her.

Well ist hard to hide 40K ton battleship! The Tirpiz didn't fair much better either

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: kelbtalfenek
Further, the USA was losing cargo ships by the dozen to the German U-boat fleets in attempting to keep the UK supplied with war materiel, which indicates an indirect involvement.

I'd point out here that it took an age for the US to realise that the Royal Navy actually knew what it was talking about when advising ships to sail in convoys and not singularly, which is when the greatest losses occurred....

Well its a trick picked up from as fair back as the Napoleonic wars to avoid French and US Frigates!

a reply to: Flavian

If Germany had manged to seize North Africa and held the vital points in the USSR then there industry would have been unstoppable.

What stopped the Me262 turning the tide of the air war was the fact Germany could produce so few. But even the handful cased a headache.

If Germany had got to 1944 with a constant and plentiful supply of resources to churn out Me262 in meaningful numbers as well as Panther/Tigers and had spares to put into new projects the results would have been pretty scary.