reply to post by steveknows
The atomic info was given to the U.S by the Brits, and no Im not a Brit. Also it was with the help of German scientists the it was developed.
When it came to the "A bomb" the U.S was way behind both England and Germany until both those countries aided the U.S in its development.
In the interest of keeping the record straight....
The U.S. fission weapon program began in 1939 with the Einstein–Szilárd
The Einstein–Szilárd letter was a letter sent to the United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt on August 2, 1939, that was signed by Albert
Einstein but largely written by Leó Szilárd in consultation with fellow Hungarian physicists Edward Teller and Eugene Wigner.
The letter suggested that the U.S. should begin its own research because of the potentially vast destructive power of atomic bombs.
Einstein, Szilárd, Teller and Wigner were among a number concerned scientists who initially feared Nazi Germany would develop the weapon
The only real contribution by the British during the development of the U.S. program was the realization that a much smaller amount of fissile
material was needed to achieve a critical mass than had been assumed (pounds rather than tons of Uranium).
This information was called The Frisch–Peierls memorandum
and was given to the
researchers in the U.S. nuclear program.
The Frisch-Peierls_memorandum was a revelation for the practical development of a deliverable nuclear weapon and provided the impetus for FDR to green
light the bomb as a full scale development project.
Wiki summarizes consequent events of early U.S./U.K. nuclear collaboration...
Collaboration with the United Kingdom
The British and Americans exchanged nuclear information but did not initially pool their efforts.
Britain rebuffed attempts by Bush and Conant in 1941 to strengthen cooperation with its own project, codenamed Tube Alloys. However, the United
Kingdom could not muster the manpower or resources of the United States, and despite its early and promising start, Tube Alloys soon fell behind its
On 30 July 1942, Sir John Anderson, the minister responsible, advised Churchill that: "We must face the fact that ... [our] pioneering work ... is a
dwindling asset and that, unless we capitalise it quickly, we shall be outstripped. We now have a real contribution to make to a 'merger.' Soon we
shall have little or none."
By this time, the British bargaining position had worsened, and their motives were mistrusted by the Americans. Collaboration lessened markedly, and
the exchange of information stopped
Regarding the comment that Germany was ahead in development of a fission weapon or that Germany in any way aided the U.S... You may want to double
check your source.
It is unquestionable that many of the key figures in various facets of the Manhattan Project were Americans of German decent, naturalized German
immigrants and German scientific ex-patriots played a substantial role (Albert Einstein immigrated to the U.S. with a German passport)
Beyond the short sighted Nazi racial policies alienating some of Germany brightest minds, the only assistance Germany could be credited with is
providing the motivation to build it in the first place.
German nuclear research was never the threat some feared as well. After the war a subset of Operation Paperclip named Operation Alsos was aimed at
Germany's Nuclear program.
The results were disappointing, as summarized by wiki...
In the end, Operation Alsos concluded that the Allies had surpassed the entire German atomic bomb effort by 1942. Compared to the Manhattan
Project (one of the largest scientific and engineering projects in history), the German project was considerably underfunded and understaffed, and it
is questionable whether Germany would have had the resources or concentrated research attention which the Allies used to produce such a
Many people don't understand that the A-bomb was not simply a matter of figuring out some clever trickery, it required an massive infrastructure to
refine the oar, entire damns were built solely to generate the power for the centrifuges etc.
The massive domestic investment required is a point often lost on the historical revisionists who would have people believe that both Germany and
Japan had advanced weapons programs, some of the more ambitious stories go so far as to suggest that Germany or Japan respectively detonated a fission
weapon in 1945.
It is utter drivel but that doesn't stop the stories from making the rounds.
reply to post by steveknows
In fact U.S engineers build a life size bodel of a stealth bomber the Germans were working on and tested it under ww2 radar conditions and this
thing passed and would have reached the U.S. At the same time the Germans were working on the bomb so it would been bad news.
Alas, no proper WWII thread would be complete without mention of the Horton brothers Ho-229 and how it almost was going to win the war for Germany.
While a clearly impressive design, the projected performance was far less than what would be required to carry the 10,000 lb payload of a first
generation fission weapon 4000 miles one way from Berlin to Washington D.C.
Horten Ho 229
It was given the personal approval of German Luftwaffe Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, and was the only aircraft to come close to meeting his
"3x1000" performance requirements, namely to carry 1000 kg (2200lbs) of bombs a distance of 1000 km (620 miles) with a speed of 1000 km/h (620MPH).
Its ceiling was 15,000 meters (49,213 ft)
If I may so bold as to quote myself from another thread...
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
The brilliant aeronautical engineers of 1930's and 40's National Socialist Germany unquestionably made huge contributions to modern aviation but in
all fairness it should also be remembered that the Reichsluftfahrtministerium ( German Ministry of Aviation or RLM abbreviated) were often victims of
their own often overly ambitious imaginations and even the very few late war designs that found their way into prototype were nearly all so badly
flawed as to have had no possible future as military programs.
The most highly evolved of the German wings was the Horton IX aka HP-229 and regardless of what "secret Nazi wonder weapons" on the history channel
would have folks believe it was far from a success. Only six were built, only 2 of those were briefly flown and only 1 of those was powered and it was
lost by a crash early on.
There is a bit of a current trend to romanticize the Ho-229 by crediting it with theoretical performance and inferring it was an inspiration for
modern stealth and both are far from the truth. The real story isn't nearly as exciting. The one powered prototype was never flown faster than a
couple of hundred kmh or higher than .5km.
The HP-229 had zero influence on the B-2. Often neglected from mention in modern stories of the German "wonder weapon" is that at the same time of the
Horton brothers Jack Northrop was designing tailless aircraft as well with the added caveat that after WW2 the Horton brothers were forgotten while
Northrop went on to successfully engineer both the YB-35 and YB-49 strategic bomber. They ultimately failed for a few reasons, incurable yaw
instability a big one due to no computer fly by wire in the 50's. The resurgence of the tailless wing design in the B-2 had little more than basic
plan form in common with Northrop's wings of the 50's had absolutely no part of their lineage in common with the HO-229.
Horten Ho 229
It is worth noting that both the U.S. postwar wing designs had sufficient range and payload to deliver a nuclear weapon on an intercontinental
There are various ways in which the allies cooperated, including the American lend lease scheme and hybrid weapons such as the Sherman Firefly.
Interesting choice using the big gun M4 as an example.
I would have guessed the Rolls Royce/Merlin powered P-51 B/C/D to have been the ultimate success story of British/U.S. technological integration
edit on 14-10-2011 by Drunkenparrot because: (no reason given)