America didn't do much in World War II (in Europe)

K what i meant was there are countries that can take more credit for winning the war than the united states, as compared to them there has been more battles and more losses in alot of countries

Originally posted by TrixXxtaR



New Zealand on the other hand were very quick to retaliate, beating the USA to declare war on Germany by over a year.

Do your own research if you want proof. Wiki and multiple books & sites are your friend.




Germany declared war on the US, not the other way around. Practice what you preach.

reply to post by misterbananas


Every action from every one of the allies was important.
Even the Greeks rearguard action for the British, it allowed those troops to escape and fight another day.
Roosevelt wanted to go to war, but the American public wasn't wanting to go "over there" to fight again.
Besides men and material, one of the biggest help the US was is that our factories and plants couldn't be bombed or hit by V-1's or V-2's to disrupt output. (Eventhough Feb 23, '42, a Japanese sub did shell the coast of California, and Aug 28, '42, a submarine launched seaplane bombed forest in Oregon.)
Hitler's overconfidence in Goring helped Britian (and USSR), and the invasion of Crete (may have) saved the USSR, by postponing BARBAROSSA by a month. He should've invaded Malta instead anyway.

wow . yes soviets lost a lot of soldiers and civilans to german weapon tech. the reason we faired better than the soviets was better tech and we didn't have to fight the russian winter. we had better airsupport and better tanks
russians had tougher infantry. how many sailors did russia lose to german uboat wolfpacks. and why does it matter it was a war that was one by us and her multi national allies.

Originally posted by Aliensun
So this is your own version of revisonist history of WWII?

Whilst the OP is barking up the wrong tree, you are as well with the below revionist history of your own..

Originally posted by Aliensun
How many times do you non-Americans have to be told that if it wasn't for our support of England with lend-lease and then joining the war, all of the rest of Europe and Africa would be speaking German today.

That help came at a cost, namely us giving you all of our secret tech (Tizzard mission), having to blackmail and bribe Congress into actually lifting a finger and also having to surrender our entire Empire so the US could gain access to the markets and global hegemony....

Originally posted by Aliensun
Dunkirk. Remember that debacle when Hitler allowed the English soldiers to be evaced? Your war was lost.

Our war wasn't lost in the slightest and you're showing a stunning amount of ignorance claiming it. We fought on in Africa, the Far East and on the home front with dignity and courage.

Originally posted by Aliensun
We defeated them with your wornout help, and, yes, the Russians were right there from the other side, but damnit, the British were only tag-alones to the real push to Berlin.

Tag alongs? On D-Day, there were more UK and Commonwealth forces than the Yanks, 90% of the Naval power was British (even the landing boats on Omaha were British not American) and the bulk of the Air Power was from the UK (One of the reasons for the debacle at Omaha was the piss poor US bombing before hand which killed loads and loads of cows)

Originally posted by Aliensun
Do you also remember the Battle of the Bulge?

El-Alemain? Battle of Britain? The Battle of the Atlantic? That's just three more significant battles of the War that the UK won virtually single handedly.

Originally posted by Aliensun
Who drove the Germans back?

The British also fought, with the 29th Armoured Brigade and the 30th Corps holding the important bridges over the Meuse ...

Originally posted by Aliensun
Who built the tens of thousands of B-17s, who backed up your defeated navy?

Defeated Navy? What are you smoking? The Royal Navy was never even close to being "defeated" and you're displaying a shocking amount of idiocy here and doing exactly what I think the OP is trying to point out.

Yes, the US helped a lot, but you were hardly the all-winning super heroes you're making out and by doing so, you're pissing all over everybody else for the sake of cheap political point scoring.

We all fought, died and suffered to win the war, with each country doing their bit. By doing what you're doing, you are merely reinforcing the annoying habit some Yanks have of chanting "We saved your arse in WW2 - USA! USA!"

I normally hate this type of thread, but I'll put in my 2p.

I believe that the war in Europe would have been lost had it not been for the intervention of the US. They gave vast amounts of men, materials and fresh fighting strength to the worn out allies. Remember that by the time the US joined we had been fighting on many fronts for years, the whole time being starved and bombed at home. There is no way that the allies could have pushed the axis forces out. It would have been a case of holding out on individual home fronts and hoping the nazis would leave them alone.

Do I think that Britrain could have held out? Probably. We had a great natural defence that the rest of europe didn't - the sea. Hitler attempted to invade across it and failed. The Battle of Britain pretty much put an end to any real attempt at an invasion of Britain. We also had a very professional armed forces, as well as a tenacious home front. Had Germany developed nuclear weapons then the outcome would have been very different.

Do i think I'd be speaking German if it wasn't for the US? No. Have you ever tried to learn German .

C'mon folks. They were called "Allies" for a reason. Everyone did what they could when they became involved in the fracas.

It was no crime that the US became involved only after the attack on Pearl Harbour, and the declaration of war by the Germans and Italians... After that, it became the US's war, too. More's the pity...

Some herein would do well to remember that...all the nations shed blood, and treasure to defeat the Nazi's, and rebuild Europe into what, for better or for worse, it is today.

The dead don't care who did the most. They only care, should they say anything at all, that what they died for wasn't, as the Vikings used to say, a straw death.

Were they? Some herein, again, might want to contemplate that, too.

No Lend-Lease probably means Britain is defeated sometime in 1942 and quite possibly means a Soviet defeat in 1943-44.

reply to post by Frira


Dear Frira

YES YES you are all quite correct.

However you make it sound like the USA join the war to save us poor Europeans.

Wrong

FDR got you into it by making sure you where attacked by Japan to save your butts not ours.

If anybody bothers to answer I will let you know why other than that I can not be bothered.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by Frira

 

Dear Frira

YES YES you are all quite correct.

However you make it sound like the USA join the war to save us poor Europeans.

Wrong

FDR got you into it by making sure you where attacked by Japan to save your butts not ours.

If anybody bothers to answer I will let you know why other than that I can not be bothered.

What?

I have to climb into the "way-back machine" to come back to this old thread to find someone has the inexcusable, indefensible, gall to put words in my mouth? "You make it sound like..."

What rubbish. Don't tug on superman's cape.

Originally posted by seagull
C'mon folks. They were called "Allies" for a reason. Everyone did what they could when they became involved in the fracas.

It was no crime that the US became involved only after the attack on Pearl Harbour, and the declaration of war by the Germans and Italians... After that, it became the US's war, too. More's the pity...

Some herein would do well to remember that...all the nations shed blood, and treasure to defeat the Nazi's, and rebuild Europe into what, for better or for worse, it is today.

The dead don't care who did the most. They only care, should they say anything at all, that what they died for wasn't, as the Vikings used to say, a straw death.

Were they? Some herein, again, might want to contemplate that, too.

This thread is stupid without any one of the allies WW2 would have been lost. The British brought 3 things needed to win the war first a base for the invasion of Europe. And more importantly time they provided the time needed for the United States to mass troops and build industry to fight the war(here is where i add also had to take a pounding with an air war and managed to hang in even with overwhelming odds) . And there third contribution Winston Churchill without his leadership the allies would have accomplished nothing.

The Americans contribution to the war of course raw materials bullets and food especially the food Hitlers plan was to starve the British out and was working quite well i might add they had to ration everything. This is the part people confuse Britain couldn't have held out much longer maybe 6 months by the time the Americans enter the war.However its not because they were going to lose to Germany they were doing quite well on holding off Hitler. There problem was there farms had been bombed and there industries were limping along. And the Americans other contribution fresh troops. And finally i keep seeing people talk of American technology well to be frank it didn't exist we were isolationists and we were behind. For example British planes were superior this does change once we enter the war the mustang had no equal in ww2. They had radar and even helped the US update are navy most of are stuff was from WW1. Now the Americans other great contribution is we were innovative and we were able to take tech and make it better. And we were able to produce weaponry in quantities to supply 3 armies the Americans British and Russians.

Now for the Russians there major contribution was manpower. There Army had more people then they had rifles. The other thing they did was cause Germany to expend a lot of energy trying to fight on 2 fronts. Hitler was warned it wasnt a good idea and had he listened the Russians wouldn't have entered the war.And quite frankly He would have taken out the other 2 allies.

So this thread arguing about WW2 is stupid without any one of them they would have lost.

PS thought a quote from Churchill fits well right here!!

Winston Churchill once said that the only thing worse than having allies is not having them.

reply to post by Frira


Dear Frira

OK my point is this, correct the allies would not have won WW2 with out the USA, this is for certain.

However it was not about helping the poor Europeans as I hear so often claimed.

In 1939 a little German Jew explained the meaning of an inch long formula that he had dreamed up to FDR.

Here is the proof

hypertextbook.com...

From that point of FDR knew the war not only had to be, but it also had to be won.

However FDR helped the UK long before the 7th of December 1941. Supplies and ships manned by the US to guard the convoys crossing the Atlantic.

If the UK had been lost in the summer of 1940 as looked extremely likely at that time the US would have been nuked by the Austrian fellow.

NO D DAY, NO Battle of the Bulge. NO nothing just nuclear inhalation for the US.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by Frira

 

Dear Frira

OK my point is this, correct the allies would not have won WW2 with out the USA, this is for certain.

However it was not about helping the poor Europeans as I hear so often claimed.

In 1939 a little German Jew explained the meaning of an inch long formula that he had dreamed up to FDR.

Here is the proof

hypertextbook.com...

From that point of FDR knew the war not only had to be, but it also had to be won.

However FDR helped the UK long before the 7th of December 1941. Supplies and ships manned by the US to guard the convoys crossing the Atlantic.

If the UK had been lost in the summer of 1940 as looked extremely likely at that time the US would have been nuked by the Austrian fellow.

NO D DAY, NO Battle of the Bulge. NO nothing just nuclear inhalation for the US.

(A much better way to engage me than the first attempt. Thank you.)

The Einstein Letters you mention and linked, are of huge importance.

* That the Germans had prohibited the sale of Uranium ore out of Czechoslovakia,
* that the Kaiser Wilhelm Institutes of Science and of Physics were working with chain reaction,
* that the allied research was being published for all the world to see--

these things (and more) present a little known but very real peril for the allied nations.

In short Germany was going to make "the bomb" and the US was very likely going to be on the receiving end of it even if the US had only continued to supplied "Guns & Butter." The whole world would have soon been at the mercy of the Axis powers.

As for the FDR and Pearl Harbor...

The US had long been flirting with war with Japan because of treaties with China (and others, I think)-- technically falling just short of acts of war.

Speculation has long been made that FDR knew of Pearl Harbor plans before it happened, and let it. The Japanese, however, do not believe that story, and neither do most Americans.

The Japanese Admiral, famously observing that that attack was a mistake, "waking a sleeping giant." And he was right.

That has not changed about the people and government of the US:

Fire rockets, daily, into an ally's neighborhoods with whom the US has a defense treaty, and the US will clinch its jaws and show restraint. Fly an airplane into a civilian target on US soil, and all bets are off-- bringing a battle to US soil will guarantee swift and sure reaction with no restraints by the US.

Thus:
"Don't tug on superman's cape; don't spit into the wind; don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger, and don't mess around with Jim." Jim, in this case, being the US. None the less, there is a real tendency by many US citizens to take a view that the overwhelming end to WWII by US superiority was a evil plot and not a reaction to the evil plot of others.

It is a US mentality not to provoke, but if provoked, respond by overwhelming force. You can read, I think, in those Einstein letters, that among those who knew and understood the peril of German nuclear research, that there was a very real fear that the US would find itself overwhelmed unless it took a course to overwhelm the enemy.

So to the world now, and the naive US citizens: Threaten the US with words that you will annihilate them and their allies, and the US will prepare. Build (Iran), or help build (Germany, France) a breeder reactor to facilitate that treat-- the US will act, and it will lack restraint, and it will overwhelm.

The giant is not sleeping, but only going about its business. Underestimating the US military might and government's determination is to ignore history. And with good allies like Australia, the UK, Canada, and probably others-- free democracies learned the lesson of 1930's-- be able to meet any threat at any time, and never allow an enemy to be ready.

France, Germany and the former Soviet Union have not yet learned that lesson. China has. The nations which learned that lesson are those which, now, no one will confront directly-- and THAT is a sign of a successful strategy-- no matter how hated it may be.

reply to post by Frira


Dear Frira
From Frira : Speculation has long been made that FDR knew of Pearl Harbor plans before it happened, and let it. The Japanese, however, do not believe that story, and neither do most Americans.

Apparently most Japanese have no knowledge of Pearl Harbor at all. Perhaps we are not so good at writing history books in Japanese.

Yep I know it and I think it is a big problem. I can also understand it. Who wants to think of their leaders as being somewhat out there. The fact is that something had to happen if Hitler was to be defeated and that was not going to happen with the US civilian attitude the way it was back then.

Don’t get me wrong I do not blame the US population especially after two years of the western front 1916 – 1918.

However the US population did not know what FDR knew. One can also speculate that history is repeating it’s self today.

Click here for more information.

Slight thread revival here, but all this bickering is silly. War is often merely a means by which corporations and business men make money. Businesses within the U.S. were building war machines for both sides. Here's a list of the various U.S. and British interests that helped aid in the rise of the Nazis:

American Company ITT, invested in the production of the Luftwaffe Focke-Wolfe.

Rothschilds banking in England helped fund the Nazis, extra twisted part is that the Rothchilds are also Jewish, so they essentially aided in the mass genocide of their own people.

Ford, General Electric, & General Motors made weapons, vehicles, tanks, etc for the Nazis throughout the war. Ford helped design the German Stuka, a dive bomber that was used with devastating effect throughout the war. The plane ran on fuel supplied by Standard Oil. Ford made 1/3 of all the militarized trucks used by the Nazis.

Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush financially aided the Nazi's quite heavily, 1.3 million reported.

Rockefeller's Standard Oil Co. now known as ExxonMobil, Chevron and BP, helped the Nazis to go to war by financing and producing a synthetic and iso-octane properties they needed for the gasoline used in their war machines. In 1939 they sold $20 million in aviation fuel to the Nazis. Reports indicate that this fuel is what ran the war machines during Blitzkrieg.

Ethyl Gasoline Co, (GM & Standard Oil jointly owned) gave tetraethyl lead technology to the Nazis in the late 30's. This is used in gas to limit motors from knocking, thus allowing for more power to be made. Used to fuel the Luftwaffe.

American IBM helped devise a punch card system to keep track of the Jews and enemies of the Nazis in Germany. Their aim was to make the system of personal records, book keeping, and executions more efficient.

Bayer, although German, was invented by a Jewish man that helped fund Josef Mengele and created the deadly gas used in the concentration camp gas chambers.

Chase Bank (JP Morgan Chase), froze Jewish accounts at the command of the Nazis and helped raise 20 million for the Nazi war machine. For this, they got a commission of 1.2 million. Chase is said the be the front runner of all the banks in helping finance Hitler.

Kodak, Royal Dutch Shell, Random House, UBC and other foreign interests also helped the Nazis or benefited from the Jewish slave labor.

At the end of the war, several corporations sought reparations from the government of the U.S. for damages caused to their axis factories by allied bombs. Ford is known to have received 1 million.

In the end people, the jokes on you. "Country X lost more lives than Country Y, Country Y fought more battles than Country Z." Its like a shooting contest to see who can shoot themselves in the foot the most. Have you been watching the news about the ATF's "Fast and the Furious" scandal? I hope so. I think the populace of America knew what was going on back then, hence their unwillingness to enter the war. That's why we needed a Pearl Harbor.

Hitler would have never gotten nearly as far as he did without the aid of foreign interests on the Ally's side. Stop with the "You're disrespecting the ones that fought and died in WW2 by saying that!" comments. If voicing the truth is disrespectful, then you're living in a world of lies.

this is extremely retarded. there is really no discussion to be had here in any way shape or form. who lost more people is due to proximity to the war not an actual measurement of who did more.

I would go on but this is stupid as he'll and it insults allied veterans from all countries. op you should be busted over the head for even bringing this up.

I wish we could get a few veterans of the war in here to make this argument ...oh thats right theyre all out enjoying the rest of their lives that they fought so bravely for. I always wonder how some of you members sleep at night with so much hate you harbor inside you, you all sleep well i imagine...and there lies the problem. If stars were given to members on ATS for showing respect..I doubt any of us would have many, lets try to show some more eh?

RIP and thank you... to all the soldiers that have perished in the name of freedom.

My dad passed in 1993. He was a Navy vet with two purple hearts received from action in the Atlantic aboard a tin can. (Destroyer]. He never talked about the war much but you could tell he was not pleased with the Germans during those days. His ship was one of thousands of allied ships off of Normandy that day and one of the many that shelled the coast until they depleted their ammo. Then instead of returning to England to rearm they were ordered to stand down and retrieve bodies from the shallows when the fighting slowed. This part he didn't like to talk about at all.

His wounds came from a torpedo attack during convoy duty on his tin can which was protecting supplies headed to Europe and most especially Russia. One man on one ship but what he and his ship did I will always believe helped the lives of many with needed supplies and support.

Nah, he didn't do much. Just got scarred physically and mentally doing a job that thousands of others were doing all over the world so that future generations could demean their contributions. At least we don't have to live with the memories of the shallow waters and carry it through our lives in silence.

reply to post by misterbananas


You poor misinformed fool. I give you a star out of pity.