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911 The facts and the proof only.

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posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by dpd11
What's an OSer? Sorry, that's a new label for me. It's always nice to be assigned a new label though. I know assigning a label to people always helps to try and discredit them, so we're moving right along on schedule.


It's just a name for people who argue for the OS, 'official story', the NIST report etc. Much like OSers call us 'truthers'.

Notice I didn't use it to make a blanket statement about you. I don't debate generalizations, so please don't assume I used it for any kind of discrediting. Note I made no attempt to discredited you, other than what you claimed about the collapses, which is the same nonsense every other OSer is claiming. If you really want to be taken seriously as someone with something new to add to the discussion, then bring something new to the discussion. You have to realise some of us have been here for years debating this, so we know the arguments pretty well by now.


Sorry, but your question makes no sense. What does a bug hitting a windshield have to do with anything?


Really? You haven't taken a physics class have you? Lets be honest now.

It is a demonstration of the laws of motion, particularly the FACT that two colliding objects experience the same forces regardless of velocity or mass, Newtons 3rd law. This is the fundamental mistake all OS supporters make. This is what has to be ignored in order to believe that 15 floors can crush 95 floors to the ground.

Anyone who has taken physics would know the answer and the point of the question. Why is it none of you OS supporters want to answer that question? You all dodge it in one way or another. If you really don't see the point of it then it explains why you all believe the OS so easily.


Dropping a structure that weighs tens of thousands of tons on another structure is not dramatic? OK, if you say so. What exactly is "dramatic" then, in your mind?


Saying thousands of tons fall, but ignoring the fact that what it was dropping on had far more mass, is being dramatic for effect. It isn't a scientific explanation of how objects move in space, Newtons laws of motion is.
Why not try explaining it using those laws eh?


Yes, both cars are damaged... Just like both sections of the building were mostly destroyed. Except for some chunks at the top, because they did not have enough mass piling down on top of them to completely destroy them, nor some sections on the outside perimeter of the bottoms, which is where the steel is thickest.


Hmmm but what you miss is the fact that because BOTH objects are damaged it is MASS, not the velocity, that is responsible for which object receives the most damage. Remember both objects receive the same force, equally, as the question I asked you proves, here is the answer....


Trick Question! Each force is the same size. For every action, there is an equal ... (equal!). The fact that the firefly splatters only means that with its smaller mass, it is less able to withstand the larger acceleration resulting from the interaction.

www.physicsclassroom.com...

Again Each force is the same size, the firefly splatters only means that with its smaller mass it is less able to withstand the larger acceleration resulting from the interaction, try to remember that next time you claim 15 floors can crush 95 floors. It is MASS not acceleration, or velocity, that matters. So when a smaller mass falls on a larger mass, the smaller mass can not keep going and causing the larger mass to receive more damage than itself.

So when 15 floors drop on 95 floors there is nothing stopping the dropping floors from being destroyed along with the floors being impacted. Every impact is taking energy, Ke, away from the collapse, and converting it into other energy like deformation, sound, heat etc. Loss of Ke would cause a slow down of the collapse, yet the collapse does not slow down, which means either the Ke increased, or the resistance was removed ahead of the collapse wave. 15 floors would all be destroyed before they could destroy 95, simple maths. The collapse would run out of energy before it could be complete.


But I'm curious... Why don't you tell me all about what you think 'really happened'.


All I can say for sure is it wasn't a 'pancake collapse' as people are claiming (even NIST agrees with that), and there had to be another energy acting on the collapse that was not investigated. If the collapses could not have happened as claimed then what is the alternative? Just because you don't like the alternative it doesn't mean the OS is correct.


edit on 8/19/2011 by ANOK because: typo




posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


This is new to me. Are you saying that there was, in reality no one even in the buildings ? Possibly ?

This just gets beyond strange !

Anok
your help
[It's just a name for people who argue for the OS, 'official story', the NIST report etc. Much like OSers call us 'truthers']

Thanks for that.

Excellent retort.
95 floors with 46 massive load supporting steel columns that couldn't in any way imaginable just be crushed, sheared or anything else striaght down into it's own footprint unless somehow compromised. PERIOD.





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posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:15 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Hehe...I've already said too much...gonna spoil my own rant.

What I said was:



they recruited those other folks under the ruse that no one would die.


I do believe people died, and I'm in disagreement with many of my contemporaries "in the other forums", but I don't believe any where near the number died as they claim. People who may have been recruited through a naive patriotism, believing no one would actually be killed, certainly wouldn't speak out if once the event occurred people actually did die, would they?



edit on 19-8-2011 by Yankee451 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:24 PM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


You had me go'in!


Behold, the reason why I don't stray to far from things I absolutely do know. I'm just as gullible as anybody else.

edit on 19-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:27 PM
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You blew up your own thread right from the beginning by posting something that's not a fact.

Not a good start.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by dpd11
 


First thing I'm going to say is, in no way are you stupid for posting any part of what is in your reply. K?

I can definetly understand, how you could be led to believe. that the fires were hot enough. However, I can again as an iroworker. Who has used a cutting torch, on structural steel of the exact same combined elements, that were present in the steel, used in the towers. That it was not even close to hot enough, to even begin to compromise even the slightest piece of steel. I doubt the fires were hot enough to compromise, even any of the break metal used there in. In my experience with these components ? If I were going to call anything a fact in what you mentioned, well, I'm sure you can see where I'm going here.

There's no way I can give you that one based on what I know to be the facts of day to day employment in a trade
that qualifies me to say my piece.

I know how it looks but I can't go against something I have lived everyday of my life for 25 years.


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edit on 19-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)


I'm not trying to be insulting, but there is a big difference between somebody who works with steel, and an Engineer. And yes, I will admit that there's Engineers that can't change a tire right. But everybody's minds work in their own way, and an Engineer is going to comprehend the stresses involved with this stuff. That's why we have Engineers. If steel workers knew everything, then they would just build the building whatever way they want and we wouldn't have Engineers. As you know, bending steel takes pressure and heat. A massive fire burning for an hour... There's your heat. A giant section of a building still intact sitting on that section of steel... There's your pressure. This is not a mystery. Could they have designed it so it wouldn't have happened? Yes, they could have. But they didn't.

As you proved, all it takes is one person to shoot down thousands of opinions. Thousands of Engineers all agree this is the way stuff works. You're one guy that says you work with steel, so you claim to cancel them all out. And that's why nobody will ever prove anything. I have a pet kangaroo that juggles... Prove me wrong. What
's the chances of me actually having that? Zero. But prove I don't. You can't... And that's what people who believe this stuff rely on. That's their only argument.

So what does it come down to? Odds... That's the closest anybody is going to come to being right. I've heard people claim the whole thing is an illusion and there were no planes at all. Never mind the fact that thousands of people saw the planes... What amounts to a handful of people that believe stuff like that, think that they somehow cancel out thousands of eyewitnesses. So what's the odds of something like that happening... and what's the odds that the thing just collapsed? When in doubt... Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.

Have you ever seen what it takes to implode a building? Half the interior of the building has to be gutted. Sorry, but there is no magical stuff that you just wipe on the steel and it burns thorough it. And even if there was, you'd have to still tear apart the whole interior to get at that. You should know that. How could anybody do that while the building is occupied? Impossible. People climbed all over the remaining steel. Not one example of anything like that was found. You could climb over an imploded building and find a notched beam in about a minute. If people couldn't see it with their own eyes, how many people would believe a wave could scrub entire towns off the face of the earth? These are immense forces at work. Just because people don;t have the ability to comprehend them, doesn't mean they aren't real.

It's a disgrace to try and insult people who have already been affected by this, to keep trying to place the blame on some sinister boogie men. The lady who took the photo of the smoke from the crashed plane has actually had her life threatened, because nuts think she's "in on it". It's disgusting. Nobody in the government set out to kill thousands of people. The notion of it is ridiculous and virtually impossible.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:31 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


hehe...trying to build some momentum here, play the "straight man" for a while...

You know my position, right?

No planes, fake video...all the really wacky stuff.

Don't you have any questions? I answer when asked nicely, honest.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by dpd11
 


K good retort. But I'm not claiming I can contend with engineers. I am claiming that all of the fuel was spent in the explosion and that there is no evidence, of a massive fire hot enough to compromise any of that steel. Especially the massive steel in that core column, no way. That dosn't take an engineer or physics. There are people hanging out where you say this fire should be. Dosn't work in any way.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by dpd11
 


K good retort. But I'm not claiming I can contend with engineers. I am claiming that all of the fuel was spent in the explosion and that there is no evidence, of a massive fire hot enough to compromise any of that steel. Especially the massive steel in that core column, no way. That dosn't take an engineer or physics. There are people hanging out where you say this fire should be. Dosn't work in any way.


Yeah, anyone who's ever tried to put out a fire with Kerosene, knows how well that works, eh?

The official story has it that the jet was slicing the steel columns at the same time it was shredding against the steel collumns. At that moment, the kerosene stored in the wings was turning into almost an aerosol, right? I mean 500 mph, the wings are like aluminum water balloons bursting against the steel...and somehow slicing it at the same time....so all this deadly kerosene is now airborne in the tower, and where does it go?

Straight for the first elevator shaft it can find, and then almost a quarter mile straight down, BEFORE exploding and giving William Rodriguez something to talk about in his new carreer.

That's not crazy.

Nope.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:20 PM
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I cannot combat the endless amount of alleged stories and "information" that has been spewed out into the public and somehow become legitimate in people's eyes. Most of this stuff comes from the same core people. Any 16 year old kid can make a website and put up whatever info they want. A radio show can put any nut on the air they want and often they do. They cater to people that want to hear this stuff. People hear something, then they go around repeating it like it's 100% true. Some 40 year old guy still living with his parents creates a website talking about all this alleged stuff that happened, then 500 other people copy it onto their web sites... and next thing you know, people are reciting it like it's absolute reality. There are people that think that, because something is on a website, that makes it some sort of official information. Anybody can make a website.

All I know is what 99.9% of people in the industry believe, and what I see for myself. What I see if a furious fire burning for a very long time (you can see it burning right in the footage), and then an abrupt collapse of that portion of the structure, which allows a giant portion of the structure above it to come crashing down on the rest of the structure with great force. That kind of weight and impact could bring just about anything down and did... Even the core. Anything can be brought down with enough force. With the forces involved in that impact, concrete is going to be like smashing cookies with a hammer. The weight attached to the steel is going to tear down the rest with it, once the initial stability of the structure is compromised. I witnessed the Interstate building fire, and that fire was extremely fast. Once the furniture and small amounts of combustibles burn off, the fire moves on very rapidly. Each floor in that fire burned quickly and never had the time to get that hot. In that situation, the ablative material did what it was designed to do, and it saved the building. The fire in the towers was much stronger and lasted much longer than they ever conceived in the design. And that's because they unfortunately never thought of this scenario. Any aircraft crash I have looked into, has always had some fuel left in liquid form. The plane hit in that spot... It was burning well beyond what the existing fuels in the building could produce. So unless you want to believe something crazy like the guy in the plane counting the floors while they're racing towards the building, then being able to direct the plane towards the floor he's supposed to hit because it already has the incendiaries, or explosives or whatever... Obviously that's ridiculous and impossible.

What people don't understand is this... The government isn't one faceless entity. It's not "they" and "them". It's people. Regular people that just come and go to work like everybody else. Whether you are CIA, NSA, whoever... It's still just people. Every time somebody throws out these accusations, they aren't accusing some faceless shadow people... They're accusing real people of being mass murderers.



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by kro32
You blew up your own thread right from the beginning by posting something that's not a fact.

Not a good start.


I starred your reply cause you could be right, about the fact that really no images, or videos on the NET/ WEB
can be trusted. And my posting it as fact, might have exploded my thread. But try to tell me it's not a fact ?
I just maybe shouldn't have included it so early.

Then again, how messed up would it be for me, to do that to everyone later? Ya know ?

edit on 19-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)


dpd

yousaid
[What people don't understand is this... The government isn't one faceless entity. It's not "they" and "them". It's people. Regular people that just come and go to work like everybody else. Whether you are CIA, NSA, whoever... It's still just people. Every time somebody throws out these accusations, they aren't accusing some faceless shadow people... They're accusing real people of being mass murderers. ]

Why wouldn't people understand people accusing people? That's what the official story does when they say it was alqueda and the boogie woogie man Bin Laden did it. Are you saying Arabs arn't regular people?

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Besides all that you're wrong about that regular people crap. The Bush family are regular Nazis maybe. But not regular people by any stretch. Most politicians can be shown to be psychos. Guess what ? Psychos have no remorse. You can't possibly tell me, that people who can get up in front of millions and lie constantly, are normal people ! For crips sakes man was Nero a normal person ? He set Rome ablaze and blamed the Christians.
What's so hard to believe about history repeating itself, because they don't change a game plan that works.
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posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by dpd11
 





All I know is what 99.9% of people in the industry believe, and what I see for myself.


You've spoken to that many people?



posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 12:45 AM
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Politicians havn't changed a bit. Except for what they wear. Don't let the suit and tie fool you.
Take note of the elite, as the sit and let the politician, do their bidding for them.

Full screen



These people will cut your heart out and send your head rolling. A huge mistake not identify them for the psychopaths they are.
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posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Good grief man, what have you been reading?




posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


Do you think my message is little strong ?


All I have to say is

Stalin
Hitler
Pol Pot
Mao
and on and on.
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posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Yeah, but a history of psychotic behavior by leaders of all stripes doesn't necessarly constitute proof.

I only use it to domanstrate precedence and to get sane people to imagine the kind of mindset of a person who could look you in the eye and lie, knowing their lie will end up killing hundreds of thousands of people.

And then stage a victory celebration on an aircraft carrier.






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posted on Aug, 20 2011 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by Yankee451
 


No it dosn't constitute proof of anything in this venue. For sure. Certainly won't make the list. Just a reply for the
Detroit Police Dept.
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posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


One of the facts I think needs mention is that if this was a big conspiracy, then every "controlled" forum would work very hard to make sure you never stumbled on the truth.

Ask yourself what topic will get a thread closed pronto, and you're probably on your way to learning the truth.



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by randyvs
 


One of the facts I think needs mention is that if this was a big conspiracy, then every "controlled" forum would work very hard to make sure you never stumbled on the truth.

Ask yourself what topic will get a thread closed pronto, and you're probably on your way to learning the truth.


I assume you're speaking with'in this context and I have to admit Yank, that this is my first thread to this forum in quite along time. Not so much from a lack of interest. It just got old after so long. But now I've seen, as in a few of your posts there's new stuff I havn;t heard before. So it's kinda tuff for me to even know what might get a thread closed ? Can you gimme a hint ? Or maybe an example ?



posted on Aug, 21 2011 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


Well think about it, the one thing people won't even consider is that the media are complicit, not just some of the media, all of them, and always have been. They are mouthpieces for power...this has been written since the advent of the printing press.

Today's media include the Internet, and that includes conspiracy forums like this one. Who's to say what forum isn't controlled, but if the media were complicit, and they did control most of the forums on the Internet, then the consistent theme of the controlled forums would be to steer people away from suspecting the media in 911.



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