It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

911 The facts and the proof only.

page: 12
14
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by patternfinder

CALLING ALL OSers, THIS IS A SIGNIFICANT QUESTION TO YOU.....


ya know, viewing this situation, we have people on here that believe the OS and people that don't believe the OS, each arguing their points....from what I see so far, the people that do believe in the OS categorically seem to have a problem with believing that anyone would go to such measures to facilitate a crime of this magnitude and that with as many people that it would take to pull it off, there would most likely be someone out there that would be telling the story to the rest of the world....blowing the lid off if you will......

so far no one has been able to prove this crime to the satisfaction of the OSers...I see this as a unique opportunity...if we can prove this to the satisfaction of the OSers here on ATS, then we can prove it to the rest of the OSers in the world...so this is what I am suggesting, how about if the OSers tell us themselves what would constitute proof....what is it that would make them say "ok, you're right, now what can we do about it?"......


so, with that said, what do we need to show you that would make you believe that something is amiss here?


Gawd...I'm blue in the face from trying to get an answer to this question.

I've thought of a straightforward debate, but then they'd just not reply for a few weeks before they'd start blathering about "too many people", or "muslims did it" again, and then the whole silly cycle starts anew.




posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by -PLB-

Originally posted by randyvs
I didn't switch the subject at all, if the columns weren't required to fail,.for the floors to collapse, there wouldn't be a SMALL portion left. The whole core would be there. The fact that any part of the core fell or is gone dosn't fly. period. The fact that I spotted an obvious cut, in a main support column in your link, is just icing really.


You started talking about cuts or something. That was not the subject. The image is not good enough quality to see that. It is good enough quality to see that many columns did not require to fail for the floors to collapse. That basically debunks your OP "fact". It is up to you to demonstrate how many columns did require to fail, and then show that this would be impossible in the observed collapse speed. This must be demonstrated using physics, not an argument from authority.



Oh name calling ? Really ? I'm not dismissing your lousy image, that you linked to no matter how much you complain about it.

Not ignoring anything accept the childish part of post.


This is not name calling and not childish. It is a dead serious observation.


It is childish and is name calling ! To make a judgement call on someone you havn't even met ? Because of a frivalous disagreement on wheather any photo or image on the net can be faked and photo shopped?
]There by, my reasoning that no images, or photos ,can be taken seriously as evidence, on either side of this debate ? When for all you know everything on the NET or WEB is vulnerable to the Gov. filters?

Here's a probing question in the interest of your ignorance. How old are you?

Again it dosn't take physics to know for an absolute fact that the core of main support columns should have gone nowhere. To give you some kind of a clue, as to the power it would take to bring down a core column like
that ? Tied into bedrock ? An outside force ? Go nuclear. Oh there I go all bare assed and ready for another very childish judgement call. But please bring it on.

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 03:51 PM
link   
so at the end of the day, you either believe

1) the terrorist did it

or

2) there was some grand conspiracy with really no point and thousands of people were involved in an attack on the towers and the pentagon, and the US military (also just people, like me, and you) were just fine executing those attacks.

srsly.

10 years later and the insanity continues.
edit on 18-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by tangonine
so at the end of the day, you either believe

1) the terrorist did it

or

2) there was some grand conspiracy with really no point and thousands of people were involved in an attack on the towers and the pentagon, and the US military (also just people, like me, and you) were just fine executing those attacks.

srsly.

10 years later and the insanity continues.
edit on 18-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)



tangonine, would you please tell me, what would it take for you to change your mind about this? i mean for real, what kind of proof would be the tipping point for you? this way it might give me a chance to be able to show you what you need to see....



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by tangonine
so at the end of the day, you either believe

1) the terrorist did it

or

2) there was some grand conspiracy with really no point and thousands of people were involved in an attack on the towers and the pentagon, and the US military (also just people, like me, and you) were just fine executing those attacks.

srsly.

10 years later and the insanity continues.
edit on 18-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)


Well if the insanity it takes to believe lies are truth, when the lies are coming from a source that only lies ?
Then yes, your insanity will continue, as long as you set in the lap and breast feed from the liars.

It's just that simple. If you want to simplify things.


So far the facts are .



1.The core columns were compromised.

2. No images or photo's can be trusted, do to technological advancements, that are common knowledge. Without any mention, of those that may be and are not, common knowledge.

Any others I may have missed ?
edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:13 PM
link   

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by tangonine
so at the end of the day, you either believe

1) the terrorist did it

or

2) there was some grand conspiracy with really no point and thousands of people were involved in an attack on the towers and the pentagon, and the US military (also just people, like me, and you) were just fine executing those attacks.

srsly.

10 years later and the insanity continues.
edit on 18-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)


Well if the insanity it takes to believe lies are truth, when the lies are coming from a source that only lies ?
Then yes, your insanity will continue, as long as you set in the lap and breast feed from the liars.

It's just that simple. If you want to simplify things.


the terrorists did it. they even brought down the entire hate of the US military by admitting to it. They did it.

Terrorists. Al Queda.

Not some vast unimaginable consipracy. Bunch of well-funded crazy islamic extremists (not like they don't have a record of that).

Terrorists. Not GWB. Not the CIA (the cia hated bush, btw).

Terrorists. wrap your brain around it.

Or don't. Feel free to flail about uselessly.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:24 PM
link   
reply to post by tangonine
 


Prove it.

As for now, that just isn't a fact. So do you have any ? Otherwise please don't disrupt this thread with your off topic shennaniggans ?

OneTangoniner, this is foxtrot, do you read?
edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:24 PM
link   

Originally posted by Juanxlink

Originally posted by dpd11
Tens of thousands of Engineers, Metallurgists, Concrete Experts, Demolition experts, Construction people of all trades, Emergency Services people and average citizens from all over the world, who were right there and investigated all the debris thoroughly... have zero problem with the 'official' and obvious cause. And these are not people from just the US... These are experts from all over the world. Why some people choose to ignore all those tens of thousands of people, but do choose to believe what amounts to a handful of people trying to get AdSense hits on a website, or sell Gold Bond on AM radio... I don't really know. Call me crazy, but I'm going to take the word of countless Engineers, over the ignorant ranting of somebody like Rosie O'Donnell.


Did they investigate the debris? Care to prove that? Because as far as the world knows, all debri was shipped to china starting within hours of the "attacks". Want to try again?


I have no idea what you're talking about. Let me guess, you heard that on some conspiracy radio show or something, right? A good portion of the steel was sitting down in the harbor for weeks. I saw it myself. Numerous reports were done on TV and photos taken, with it sitting right behind them on camera. A lot of the steel was recycled to make a new Navy ship.

I know better than to argue about this stuff. For whatever bizarre reason, some people are just going to keep going on and on with all this insanity. There's no way anybody is ever going to convince people that believe this stuff otherwise, because no matter what you show them or what you say... they just make some nonsensical comment like 'prove it' or some other goofy thing. Prove that Engineers from all over the world looked at the debris? Anybody in the industry knows they did. How do you prove something like that? Get a sworn statement form all of them,? Then what? Then people come out and say they're faked... Then you show the people who were there on camera, and people say those people are fake. Then you show them video of them right at the scene, and people say that's staged. On and on forever. It's absurd.

I have no idea why people are so hell bent on trying to prove their government is trying to kill them, but whatever. If you want to live your life thinking all these hideous things are taking place that aren't really happening, it's your business. Kind of a sad way to live life though.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tangonine
 


Prove it.

As for now, that just isn't a fact. So do you have any ? Otherwise please don't disrupt this thread with your off topic shennaniggans ?

OneTangoniner, this is foxtrot, do you read?
edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)


your sarcasm aside: I don't need to prove it. Bin Laden and Zawahiri admitted to it.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:41 PM
link   
reply to post by Yankee451
 


Well breathe Yank ! Cause the silence to the question is your answer. They are of a different framework that would begin to, shake ans shimmy, just like the towers. They would crumble. Most likely they fear the fear.
A phobia that requires rosey red sunglasses I suspect.


Tangonine

Oh you mean the guy the dumped in the ocean ?
Let's see, nope not a fact. Try again?
edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:44 PM
link   
9/11 MADNESS
post removed because of personal attacks

Click here to learn more about this warning.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 04:56 PM
link   

Originally posted by tangonine

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Yankee451
 


Well breathe Yank ! Cause the silence to the question is your answer. They are of a different framework that would begin to, shake ans shimmy, just like the towers. They would crumble. Most likely they fear the fear.
A phobia that requies rosey red sunglasses I suspect.


That made exactly 0 sense. Not one cogent thought in that post.


What kind of accusation is this?



Put down the weed.


People turn blue in the face from not exhaling so now I'm a dope smoker.

Where do you get your logic ?


Any further disruptive posts from you that do not show proof or present something factual and it's all about the alert button. I've tried to be nice but you don't get it.
edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:03 PM
link   
reply to post by tangonine
 


I'm here for a good discussion and am capable of reading between the lines.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:07 PM
link   
reply to post by Yankee451
 


Seems like providing a good base for that just dosn't work do to all the clucking.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 05:29 PM
link   
reply to post by randyvs
 


I like to think these guys don't come anywhere close to conveying the sentiments of the majority...call me crazy...



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 07:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tangonine
 


Prove it.

As for now, that just isn't a fact. So do you have any ? Otherwise please don't disrupt this thread with your off topic shennaniggans ?

OneTangoniner, this is foxtrot, do you read?
edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)


Don't have to prove anything.

You're the one screaming conspiracy. cute tag with the foxtrot thing, douchebag.



posted on Aug, 18 2011 @ 08:04 PM
link   
Originally posted by tangonine
Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by tangonine
 




douchebag.


Maybe you just don't understand the concept of this thread ? IDK.

Fact- That which actually exists in reality. Truth. As in your fears have no factual basis.

Proof - Evidence sufficient as to establish a thing as being true and factual.

So douchebag ? You do see how far off you are right ?



edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-8-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 05:55 AM
link   

Originally posted by tangonine
so at the end of the day, you either believe

1) the terrorist did it

or

2) there was some grand conspiracy with really no point and thousands of people were involved in an attack on the towers and the pentagon, and the US military (also just people, like me, and you) were just fine executing those attacks.

srsly.

10 years later and the insanity continues.
edit on 18-8-2011 by tangonine because: (no reason given)


"really no point"?




While you’ve been absorbing stories about Osama bin Laden on your big screen TV, the real perpetrators have been bankrupting the treasury, stealing your homes, and draining your retirement. They’ve been using the fruits of your labor to ruin the lives of people on the other side of the world whose only crimes were to be in the way. What will it take for you to notice?




Due to the nature of the story, and the accompanying secrecy, details and “mainstream” source material are understandably hard to find, giving mainstream media reason to discount the story. None the less, the revelations produced by Heidner expose a motive that makes much more sense than the B-movie script version we are all familiar with. When 911 is investigated as a crime, and not an act of terrorism, what can we surmise by examining what was accomplished? The main goals appear to have been intended to at least:

1. Destroy evidence of institutional lawlessness in government, finance, military and business.
2. Silence investigations into the above.
3. Demolish the white elephants known as the Twin Towers.
4. Provide pretext for world war and hegemony in the guise of the Global War on Terrorism.
5. Allow the continuation of a culture of plunder and corruption


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 08:51 AM
link   

Originally posted by patternfinder

from what I see so far, the people that do believe in the OS categorically seem to have a problem with believing that anyone would go to such measures to facilitate a crime of this magnitude and that with as many people that it would take to pull it off, there would most likely be someone out there that would be telling the story to the rest of the world....blowing the lid off if you will......


We're positively sure that 19 lunatics are responsible. Not that complicated. And most of us on the rational side of the argument don't believe that our guv wouldn't pull this type of shenanigans. We simply see insufficent evidence to seriously consider it.

The truther version of events requires a massive conspiracy/incompetence of those NOT in the planing loop.


so far no one has been able to prove this crime to the satisfaction of the OSers...I see this as a unique opportunity...if we can prove this to the satisfaction of the OSers here on ATS, then we can prove it to the rest of the OSers in the world...


Most likely so.


so this is what I am suggesting, how about if the OSers tell us themselves what would constitute proof....what is it that would make them say "ok, you're right, now what can we do about it?"......


so, with that said, what do we need to show you that would make you believe that something is amiss here?


I'll give you a couple of examples of the standards that the rest of the world holds:

1- thermxte:

Jones, Harritt, etc claim thermitic material, or whatever flavor of the month. But there are serious flaws in the papers that need to be addressed - Jones admitted that combustion was most likely taking place. So he needs to try again in an inert atmosphere and see what happens, etc. And there's also the claim that the iron rich spheres can only be from a thermitic reaction, but that statement totally disregards the iron rich spheres that comes from flyash, which is used as a filler in concrete.

In short, there's too many issues to get onto your side of the debate just yet. Actually prove the existance of thermxte and you've got something.

2- free fall acceleration period in 7's collapse:

To start with, there is no evidence of a freefall accel of the entire building. NIST and Chandler only state that the north face did, since there is no video to analyze of the other 3 faces. Also, the truther statement that ALL the columns must be cut with a millisecond is also false, since it ignores the fact that 1) the east penthouse descends 6 seconds prior to the outer faces, and 2) also ignores the fact that the OTHER penthouses also begin falling into the building a split second prior to the outer faces. This gives visual evidence that NIST's statements of that the core columns buckled prior to the outer faces falling to be true.

Also, freefall accel is easily explained when you consider NIST's statements of how the columns gave essentially zero resistance, and how that could happen. 1) NIST estimates that as many as 8 floors collapsed prior to the outer faces descending. This means that there are long span columns that are absent bracing. There is a formula for determining what lenthening the unbraced length has on a column. At 8 stories of unbraced length, the resistance is virtually zero. 2) This "virtually zero resistance" assumes that the ext column connections wouldn't fracture. Fractured column connections WILL GIVE zero resistance. And there is reason to believe this would be the case, since there are photos floating around of 1 and 2's core column connections breaking cleanly at the welded connections. So it does not rise to the point of jumping to your side of the discussion.

Show that the other 3 faces descended at freefall first also. Then disprove that fractured ext columns will still provide resistance. Then disprove that the penthouses descent is indication of core column failure prior to the outer face failures.

Do all that and I'd consider it.

Now it's your turn:

What evidence and/or whose statement in support of the OS would convince YOU (and this is a question to all truthers, btw)?



posted on Aug, 19 2011 @ 09:06 AM
link   
reply to post by Joey Canoli
 





We're positively sure that 19 lunatics are responsible.


Again with the "we". Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

What makes you so positive new information isn't available that proves you wrong?

Are you waiting for an expert to tell you?



new topics

top topics



 
14
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join