Libya end game.

Ok so al qaeda /cough Libyan freedom fighters are closing the noose on the gaddafi regime.
How do you think this is all going to end now that the battle for tripoli looks imminent?
will gaddafi go out with a wimper or a bang? one thing most experts agree on is that the
regime still has stockpiles of nerve gas, anthrax and all manner of biological nasties left
over from their supposedly shut down weapons programs. I doubt even the colonel is mad
enough to use them at the end, and is more likely to slip out of the country like the rat he is.
Then we will be left with a new regime heavily infiltrated and maybe even controlled by al
qaeda set up in north africa with there own oil fields for income and a readymade stockpile of
WMD. All put in place and funded by our wise leaders in the west.

reply to post by Atzil321


The new regime will be firmly controlled by the west i'm sure. At least the people will be free of Ghaddafi which is the important thing. I imagine he will sneak out as you stated to somewhere friendly or the west will give him a ride on his promise not to do anything stupid before he leaves.

It is almost over however that's pretty obvious.

NATO fills in Libyan officials who are mere puppets to the West - just like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And this is an extremely good thing in my opinion.

It means we don't have to worry about some madman gaining power and terrorizing the people and it's also a place from which we can control influence throughout the region.

Some of you may say that's not our right but anything that brings more stability to the world is a good thing. Certainly the people of those country's will be better off than they were.

reply to post by kro32


So you are saying Libya will be more stable after we finish spreading "peace" there?

Just like Iraq is more stable, now?



We have no business there, the UN dictated we do it, and Obama bowed down once again...

I would say Iraq is more predictable and more easily controlled however there is still violence and I assume Libya will end up similar. We are taking the opposite approach that we took during the 20's and 30's. Back then we stayed out of the affairs for all intents and purposes of the world allowing dictators like Mussolini and Hitler to consolidate power and we eventually had to deal with them at far greater cost to us than if we had intervened earlier.

We are trying to cut off potential problems before they start as well as the obvious things such as securing our access to natural resources (oil) and whatever reasons they have.

Originally posted by kro32
And this is an extremely good thing in my opinion.

It means we don't have to worry about some madman gaining power and terrorizing the people and it's also a place from which we can control influence throughout the region.

Some of you may say that's not our right but anything that brings more stability to the world is a good thing. Certainly the people of those country's will be better off than they were.

The world would be a far more peaceful place if we in the west werent fighting all these wars on behalf of the elites!, do they send there sons of to die? i think not.

The west were not bothered about these events for many years before, now it is our business.

I think you have fallen for the fear game, if anything be scared of your own government, that is where the true problem is. If government was good, you would be getting more liberties and you would see justice, do you? no is the simple answer, we are all having rights and liberties taken away because of the terrorists, state sponsored terrorists i.e western governments.

Originally posted by brommas

Originally posted by kro32
And this is an extremely good thing in my opinion.

It means we don't have to worry about some madman gaining power and terrorizing the people and it's also a place from which we can control influence throughout the region.

Some of you may say that's not our right but anything that brings more stability to the world is a good thing. Certainly the people of those country's will be better off than they were.

The world would be a far more peaceful place if we in the west werent fighting all these wars on behalf of the elites!, do they send there sons of to die? i think not.

The west were not bothered about these events for many years before, now it is our business.

I think you have fallen for the fear game, if anything be scared of your own government, that is where the true problem is. If government was good, you would be getting more liberties and you would see justice, do you? no is the simple answer, we are all having rights and liberties taken away because of the terrorists, state sponsored terrorists i.e western governments.

edit on 15-8-2011 by brommas because: (no reason given)

Try to leave the conspiracy's out of debates if you wish to be taken seriously There are many reasons our country goes to war without it having to involve the "Elites". As far as your rights and liberties being stripped away I would like you to point out just one that you've lost.

I believe it is you that is being consumed with fear by those who say you are constantly under attack and that the boogyman is out to get you. Leave everyone alone and the world will be a happy place where we all will pick flowers in the sunshine.

Last time we left everyone alone Pearl Harbor got bombed.

reply to post by kro32


"OP: Odyssey Dawn"

It hasn't even started to begin yet.

aren't there 1 million tripolians carrying guns, trying to protect their ruler?

that's a hell of a lot of 'collateral damage' isn't it?

reply to post by Atzil321


Can you please clarify why you personally believe Ghadaffi is a RAT!

He looks after his own a damn sight better than our conseqeutive Governments, who attacked him because of three issues:

He called for a new African currency to replace the Dollar
They want control of Libyan Oil
They want want is percieved to be the largest un tapped water source that sits under Libya

He pays for health, education, service without stealing from his people!

Your leader, my government (I didn't vote for RED or Blue or Yellow) attacked and continue to bomb a sovereign nation for their own collective agenda of greed,

They are arming Al CIA da, the very George Bush Snr private army of his wannabe NWO to fight their fight! These are the same insidious scum that have killed over 377 UK servicemen and women to date in all theatres since the criminal false flag of 9-11,

So who is the RAT, you! why ? for thinking if your slag Libyan's off, everybody will run with you because you want to run with the crowd,

You ill educated fool, want to be patriotic! fight to get our boys & girls home! they are only fighting a phony war for fat bankers and thicko's like you are exactly why they are still getting away with. Sort your facts and make a real case.

reply to post by Atzil321


a civil war is next, as for Gaddafi i dont think his in Libya anymore, those terrorists just want him dead, they dont care what the outcome maybe.

I Just dont understand why the Libyans aren't fighting back agaisnt NATO Swines.

reply to post by kushin


Ghaddafi has a long history of abuses against the people of Libya. A simple search will bring up more information than you probably want to hear.

He disband the tribal system that was still used by alot of people and disrupted their way of life to solidify his power.

Meanwhile, Gaddafi and the RCC had disbanded the Sanusi order and officially downgraded its historical role in achieving Libya's independence. He also attacked regional and tribal differences as obstructions in the path of social advancement and Arab unity, dismissing traditional leaders and drawing administrative boundaries across tribal groupings.

He took over the press and kicked out those he didn't like.

The press, already subject to censorship, was officially conscripted in 1972 as an agent of the revolution. Italians and what remained of the Jewish community were expelled from the country and their property confiscated in October 1970.

And he involved Libya in senseless conflicts on his own behalf.

As early as 1969, Gaddafi waged a campaign against Chad. Part of his hostility was apparently because [[President of Chat|Chadian President François Tombalbaye was a black African and a Christian.

So he may have done some good things for the people but it came with a price. Remeber that Hitler and Stalin did some good things for their populace also but that does not justify the bad.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by kro32

Ghaddafi has a long history of abuses against the people of Libya. A simple search will bring up more information than you probably want to hear.

and amercia, NATO also have a long history of abuses against the people of the world.


It seems that kro32 always replies in every Libyan topic threads.

his someone who believes in the western mainstream yellow journalism.

He took over the press and kicked out those he didn't like.

CNN, Your Big Government mainstream press are still in the capital.

en.wikipedia.org...

Uses wikipedia for information, how not so credible nor are the western media.

Well this thread isn't about what will happen to Obama but what will happen to Ghaddafi.

If Libya would like to come over here and bomb us and institute their puppet government than they have every much of a right as we do.

However I don't see that happening

The problem with any source that goes against your beloved Ghadaffi is that you will claim it's biased. I've shown you sources from every possible place and everyone you will say it corrupt. The only ones you will believe are from the sources that support Ghadaffi and they will never speak the truth.

So you are out of luck arguing that the source is bad.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Kro is just doing a great job of standing up for poor little NATO around here.

I missed you in the thread about the 80 civvies blown to smithereens last week though buddy.

Take a look; www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by Darce


Thank you, I try.

reply to post by kro32

Try to leave the conspiracy's out of debates if you wish to be taken seriously There are many reasons our country goes to war without it having to involve the "Elites". As far as your rights and liberties being stripped away I would like you to point out just one that you've lost.

Look at the so called "ground zero mosque" and Greensboro Mosque they are trying to block. That is usurping freedom of religion.

Stop and frisk laws in NYC are a usurpation of our 4th Amendment, Search and Seizures.

Jose Padillia is a U.S. citizen that was held for 3 1/2 years in a millitary prison without being charged of any crime. He was also tortured. That violates both the 6th (right to a speedy trial) and 8th (cruel and unusual punishment) Amendments

en.wikipedia.org...

Last time we left everyone alone Pearl Harbor got bombed.

Really? or were we supplying weapons to the Allies? Do you want to know the real reason behind Americas involvement in WWII? Im sure you don't because I have my doubts about your sincerity but here you go:

Roosevelt's public efforts to involve America, while ostensibly remaining neutral, started in August, 1940, when the National Guard was voted into Federal service for one year. This was followed in September by the Selective Service Act, also for one year's duration.

But the key to America's early involvement occurred on September 28, 1940, when Japan, Germany and Italy signed the Tripartite Treaty. This treaty required that any of the three nations had to respond by declaring war should any one of the other three be attacked by any of the Allied nations. This meant that should Japan attack the United States, and the United States responded by declaring war against Japan, it would automatically be at war with the other two nations, Germany and Italy.

Roosevelt now knew that war with Japan meant war with Germany. His problem was solved.

He had made secret commitments to Winston Churchill and the English government to become involved in the war against Germany and he knew that the only way he could fulfill his secret commitments to Churchill to get us into the war, without openly dishonoring his pledges to the American people to keep us out, was by provoking Germany or Japan to attack.

Roosevelt moved towards the Pacific theater first, knowing that, if he could provoke Japan to attack America first, America would automatically be at war with Germany as well. He also knew that, should Germany attack America, Japan would have to declare war on America. So Roosevelt attempted to get either nation to attack the United States first. Japan was to get the first opportunity.

In October, 1940, Secretary of the Navy Frank Knox sent for Admiral J.O. Richardson, Commander-in-Chief of the American fleet in the Pacific. Knox advised him that the President wanted him to establish a patrol of the Pacific—a wall of American naval vessels stretched across the western Pacific in such a way as to make it impossible for Japan to reach any of her sources of supply; a blockade of Japan to prevent by force her use of any part of the Pacific Ocean. Richardson protested vigorously. He said that would be an act of war, and besides, we would lose our navy. Of course Roosevelt had to abandon it.

This scene in history poses two rather interesting questions:

Why did Roosevelt, the Commander-in-Chief of all armed forces, including the Navy, not directly order Admiral Richardson to do as he wished? Why did he choose to use his Secretary of the Navy to almost politely ask him to create the naval patrol?

Is it possible that Roosevelt did not choose to use his supreme power because he knew that this was indeed an act of war and that he did not want to be identified as the originator of the plan. If Richardson had agreed to Knox's proposal, and Japan had attacked an American naval vessel, Roosevelt could have directly blamed the admiral for allowing the vessel to get into the position of being fired upon by the Japanese Navy in the first place.

Roosevelt wanted a scapegoat and Richardson refused.


Why did Roosevelt not replace the admiral with someone who would do exactly as he wished?

It is possible that Roosevelt realized that Richardson now knew about the plan, and since he did not approve, he would be in a position to clearly identify Roosevelt as the source of the idea should the second admiral agree to it.

Roosevelt did not want to jeopardize his carefully constructed image as a "dove" in the question of whether or not America should become involved in the war

Link

I fear there is going to be a bang, not a nuclear bang but a big bang all the same.

Once the rebels make a push into Tripoli, this civil war is going to get bloody quickly, the air support of the west is going to be useless, and the rebels will be up against the most loyal of Gaddafi supporters. The result is going to be a blood bath, in the end Gaddafi I think will lose, but he will put up one hell of a fight, I would not be surprised is as a last stand he starts using his stalk pile of mustard gas on his own people.

The truth is that any speculation about how this saga in Libya is going to play out, is just that, speculation. We can all sit here like armchair generals and make out educated guesses about what is going to or not going to happen but we won’t really know until TSHTF in Tripoli. Anything could happen, it could be possible that in the massacre that follows the rebels moves into Tripoli that the international community is going to be forced to respond with troops and tanks on the ground. How this happens is anyone’s guess. But here is my assessment of how I assume this might go.

First off the rebels with the assistance of western air support are going to have to fight closer to Tripoli, assuming that they have achieved this goal their next is to take control of Tripoli.

There are already a plethora of western military advisors to the National Transitional Council (NTC) then there are the spooks and other advisors with them, any move on Tripoli is going to be coordinated. I would guess that the most of the work is going to be done by the non-American NATO members of Operation Unified Protector most probably with the deployment of UK and French Special Forces alongside a smaller contingent of American Special Forces and Intelligence individuals. Prior to any move by the rebels these NATO forces will begin the classical Special Forces raids. This is after all the SAS’s home turf, clandestine operations behind enemy lines in Africa is what they were made for. Targets may include communication command infrastructures, sabotaging supply lines, gathering intelligence, possibly also conducting assassinations of military officers and so on.

In addition to this a massive air bombardment of all military instillations in and around Tripoli in the nights leading up to the final push to take the city. Again most probably directed by Special Forces on the ground either inside Tripoli itself of very close by. At the same time, the rebels will be beginning to surround Tripoli taking out any small military outposts in their way, until they eventually have Tripoli surrounded cutting off anything going in or out. At this point world leaders will do the photo opp stuff and go on about a peaceful resolution (while the bomb the living crap out of the country) and give Gaddafi one last chance.

At which point he is going to raise his middle figure to the west and things are going to get ugly, he’s going to already be fighting with the rebels encircling his city but he’s probably going to start playing dirty. I would guess that the first move he will make is to mobilise the people of Tripoli forcing them to fight if he can and adopt guerrilla tactics. Shortly before the rebels move in he’s going to start with the Mustard Gas possibly at this point.

When the Rebels do go in they will have no western support, the risk of a helicopter getting shot down is too great as is the risk of blue on blue. This is going to result in a massive blood bath, thousands will be killed. At some point, the city is going to fall, and a hunt will begin to find Gaddafi as I would imagine he will go into hiding or possibly kill himself in a defiant final stand.

By then end of all of this the TNC will now establish their rule of their entire country, invite western companies to help rebuild the country and finish off any resistance that is left behind.

Sivio Berlusconi will land in Tripoli and return to Italy with his now body guards he has liberated form Gaddafi.

That’s just my guess could be totally wrong and Gaddafi will kill himself tomorrow.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

a civil war is next

For someone who spends so much time writing and reading about this I would have thought you would have already known that by in large the current consensus is that Libya is already in a state of civil war.