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Ireland Faces Down Vatican: Demands $2 Billion in Abuse Compensation

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posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:42 AM
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Ireland Faces Down Vatican

Ireland is squeezing the Roman Catholic Church to hand over cash and real estate toward a 1.4 billion-euro ($2 billion) child-abuse bill amid the bitterest stand-off yet seen between the Vatican and the government.

In the sharpest language an Irish leader has ever used against the church, Prime Minister Enda Kenny said last month the Vatican’s handling of the scandals has been dominated by “elitism and narcissism.”

“The relationship between the state and the Vatican has never been worse,” David Quinn, a religious commentator who is also director of the Dublin-based Iona Institute, which promotes religion in society, said in an interview. “I struggle to think of a stronger attack by a Western European leader on the church than Enda Kenny’s.”

Kenny said the church needs to be “truly and deeply penitent for the horrors it perpetrated, hid and denied” after three government reports on clerical abuse and cover-ups rocked one of Europe’s most devout societies. With the focus now moving to who compensates the victims in talks starting next month, the church’s riches and dominance of Ireland’s educational system face their most direct threat in the country’s modern history.



It's fascinating to me that the demand has gone this far...and from this source.

Good for Ireland!

Maybe the Vatican will wake up.

edit on 15-8-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


Burn the whole Vatican city down with all the fools in it; the catholic church is so out of touch with today's society its not funny.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:01 AM
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reply to post by BigBruddah
 



Originally posted by BigBruddah
...the catholic church is so out of touch...


I hate to make light of this issue, but being 'out of touch' is their business.

It's the 'touching' they need to account for.


(Sorry. Couldn't help myself.)

As one of the most powerful human institutions. They need to to take this problem very seriously and clean house.
edit on 15-8-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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This seems very reasonable. But the world is stock piling food,money and anything else of value.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:11 AM
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it was horrific what went on,

but judging by the reaction of the vatican, they dont really seem to bothered by the situation, so good on ya kenny for pushing harder than the rest of them!



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:13 AM
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One has to wonder; is this really about compensating the victims, or is this just another cash grab by a government facing record-high deficits?

If they do get this money from the Church, how much of it do you think will really go to the victims?



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:14 AM
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Long overdue.


Now how about they offload that 33 BILLION US DOLLARS worth of DEBT they bought from America.

Ireland has no reason to be in debt, it has 33 BILLION dollars of US debt on the books.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:24 AM
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Wow, this guy Kenny has some stones. good for him and good for Ireland. the Vatican scares me. between their power, their money and their connections only God knows what they are capable of doing in retaliation. I hope Mr Kenny stands strong because I think the Vatican is going to come at him and his with everything they got.

me thinks darkness dwells inside them Vatican walls. even Benedict's eyes give me the willies.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by LooksLikeWeMadeIt
. even Benedict's eyes give me the willies.


don't say that, his Willy Detector™ will go off and he will send the men in black and white robes around.


edit on 15-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


Well played. It is a very sad and tragic situation of on going abuse that ruined many lives and those lives touched and affected and ruined many many others by association creating a spiral of sorrow and heartbreak for so many families and children and children of the abused themselves. What a miscarriage of trust and faith. They deserve every penny and more.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:27 AM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem

One has to wonder; is this really about compensating the victims, or is this just another cash grab by a government facing record-high deficits?

If they do get this money from the Church, how much of it do you think will really go to the victims?



Nope. Don't wonder.
This is no reason to deny the victims their due.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:32 AM
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The Irish need to seize all Vatican property in their country and put it all up to auction to the highest bidders, then hang all the popery pedophiles from their belfry's



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:36 AM
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The Catholic Church systematically undermined that entire culture, stole every good thing, and replaced it with generation after generation of mounting tragedy.

They used Ireland to perfect a system of utter societal collapse, that they then exported it to the "New World" and used it against those indigineous populations.

But they can cover themselves psychologically by believing that they may have destroyed entire families, cultures, and rained tragedy of untold magnitude upon generations of poeple, but saving your soul was worth it. What's a lifetime of tragedy, when your soul will go to God?

How do you expect repentence? The quality of your life means nothing.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:39 AM
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Would also love to see the revocation of the immunity from prosecution given to the perpetrators of these heinous crimes. The Catholic Church covered up and denied many of the sexual crimes and claimed it was a misguided number of priests. What about the slave labour the Church directly benefitted from.


In June 2011, Mary Raftery wrote in the Irish Times that in the early 1940s, some Irish state institutions, such as the Army, switched from commercial laundries to "institutional laundries" (Magdalene laundries). At the time, there was concern in the Dáil that workers in commercial laundries were losing jobs because of the switch to institutional laundries. Oscar Traynor, then Minister for Defence, said that the contracts with the Magdalene laundries “contain a fair wages clause”, which is odd because the women in those laundries did not receive wages. Shortly afterwards, the Irish Times revealed that a ledger listed Áras an Uachtaráin, Guinness, Clerys, the Gaiety Theatre, Dr Steevens' Hospital, the Bank of Ireland, the Department of Defence, the Departments of Agriculture and Fisheries, CIÉ, Portmarnock Golf Club, Clontarf Golf Club and several leading hotels amongst those who used a Magdalene laundry


ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Schools_in_Ireland



The Magdalene laundries were merely the tip of the iceberg of the crimes perpetrated against women and children by the Catholic church and the Irish clericalist state. As many as 300,000 children were locked in “industrial schools” where they were denied an education and forced to do manual work for no pay—slave labour —with the profits of their labour going to the church. From the 1940s to 1970s, a horrific medical procedure was carried out on pregnant women who would otherwise have had a caesarean birth. They were forcibly, and often without their knowledge or consent, subjected to an operation known as symphysiotomy, where the cartilage junction of the pubic bone was sawed through in order that the pelvis would “open like a hinge” during childbirth. As a consequence many women were crippled and condemned to a life of incredible pain and suffering. Expressing the Catholic-dominated medical profession’s rationale for this inhuman butchery, Dr. Alex Spain argued that if caesarean births were carried out, “The results will be contraception, the mutilating operation of sterilisation, and marital difficulty” (Irish Examiner, 17 April 2001). Women were simply seen as vessels for making babies.


www.icl-fi.org...

I was merely seeking references for the fact the Industrial Schools as well as the Magdalena Laundries were in effect Labour camps. The second quote references that, however I felt I must leave in the part about the symphysiotomy as I hadn't heard of it before and to my mind draws inescapable comparisons with the Inquisition.


edit on 15/8/11 by goldentorch because: clarification



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:40 AM
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If I was pope, the bad priests would call me Pinhead and I would tear their souls apart with chains one by one while reciting awesome quotes with balls. The chains would appear from thin air and I would get charged with copyright laws for making chains appear out of thin air.
I am the True Judge.
My video here demonstrates how I control the multiverse.
www.disclose.tv...
Vote me in.
I qualify as last pope.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by FortAnthem

One has to wonder; is this really about compensating the victims, or is this just another cash grab by a government facing record-high deficits?

If they do get this money from the Church, how much of it do you think will really go to the victims?



Nope. Don't wonder.
This is no reason to deny the victims their due.


I'm not saying that the victims shouldn't get their due. My concern is that; once the money falls into the government's hands it may not (make that probably won't) go to the purpose for which it was intended.

You can be sure the government will eat up the money through "bureaucratic expenses" and such. By the time it reaches the victims, I'm afraid the government will have pissed away a lion's share of the settlement, leaving little behind for the actual victims.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by FortAnthem
 



Originally posted by FortAnthem
I'm not saying that the victims shouldn't get their due. My concern is that; once the money falls into the government's hands it may not (make that probably won't) go to the purpose for which it was intended.


I understand your concern. Though perhaps far more important than the money is the fact that Kenny has done something quite historic. This is no small thing Kenny has done.



edit on 15-8-2011 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 12:26 PM
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Reply to post by loam
 


They got lots of churchgoers' money. No problemo paying off the victims a la Michael Jackson style, minus the scrutiny and character assassination... The whole situation is sickening, even for a godless, immoral, satanic, person



 
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posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by FortAnthem
I'm not saying that the victims shouldn't get their due. My concern is that; once the money falls into the government's hands it may not (make that probably won't) go to the purpose for which it was intended.

You can be sure the government will eat up the money through "bureaucratic expenses" and such. By the time it reaches the victims, I'm afraid the government will have pissed away a lion's share of the settlement, leaving little behind for the actual victims.


Possibly you are right here. Maybe there is some way to have a neutral third party receive and dispense the compensation? It would be a crime a repeat crime to deny victims and their families some compensatory relief considering the wealth and power of the church and the poverty and vulnerability of it's victims. That you can use in a sentence "the Church" and "it's victims" is horrendous enough.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 06:43 PM
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reply to post by loam
 




It's fascinating to me that the demand has gone this far...and from this source.


Ireland suffered more and longer than any other state in Europe for the Church, and the Church never once lifted a finger to help them. Still, the Irish were devout, besides persecution and ridicule they kept their faith in a way that is absolutely surprising given the circumstances they faced.

Then it turns out the church they fought and died for was raping their children... Ireland is like a dog that has been beaten, kicked, and locked out in the rain by the Church for nearly it's entire existance. Is it any surprise this latest wound is hard to take?




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