Israel OKs 277 new homes in West Bank settlement

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel has approved the building of 277 apartments in the Jewish settlement deepest inside the West Bank, defying international criticism of continued construction on land the Palestinians claim for a state. The planned construction in Ariel — the core of the settlement bloc farthest inside the West Bank — is the third project on disputed lands to be advanced in the past week.

news.yahoo.com...

Just another example of Israel provoking Palestine once again. When is the USA going to stop funding Israels bullying and lawlessness and say, enough is enough. Every country in the world had called their actions unlawful.

Why oh why are our politicians still supporting this aggressive, lawless country?
madness is what it is.

Israel please stop hating and killing your neighbor and please stop stealing their land.

reply to post by CaDreamer

Israel please stop hating and killing your neighbor and please stop stealing their land.

Why? The invisible man who lives in the clouds gave them that land, and the "Palestinians" aren't actually humans.

That said....

If anyone honestly believes the government of Israel wants peace, you are sorely diluted. Actions speak louder than words. As long as Israel does what CAUSES these people to turn to violence, it will never end. As long as Israeli bulldozers keep demolishing homes illegally, homemade rockets will continue to land in empty parking lots, injuring very few, and always launched at the best possible time for Israel.

A little off base but I have a question for the apologists who are surely foaming at the mouth ready to call me an antisemite.

If the Palestinians sole purpose is to murder Jews, as you would have us believe, please explain exactly how many rockets were fired into Israel during these MASSIVE housing protests? Exactly how many Israelis were slaughtered in the streets by attacks coming from Gaza and elsewhere?

See, I'm not a sick antisemitic prick, but I do see a large, massively unprotected, crowd of Israelis all over the news, a few rockets into those crowds would surely have done damage.

Exactly why did these inhumane, bloodthirsty, terrorists pass on this possible attack?

Then they complain the people they are kicking off their own land sends them homemade rockets and mortar attacks...
And they moan israeli kids get killed...
Thats what you get when you go into someone elses land and try kicking them out...

Jews mass immigrated to Palestine and just took over and for some reason now, its their land. And its funny how nothings been done, but if it was the other way around (muslims take over jewish land) the US would probably send their army in.

Totally agree, but dont forget the jews are the chosen people so everyone else should just give them what they want, the Americans have already given them USA, so whats a bit more land in Palestine.

/end sarcasm

Watch now, if the Palestinians were to fight in any way shape or form due to this provocation, then it will be labelled terrorism by the media.

They make me sick.

Wasn't there a poll done recently that showed Arabs in the area would rather be governed by Israel than by Palestinians? What if Israel didn't put these homes there? What would be done with the land otherwise? I'm assuming a lot of nothing.

Originally posted by Juanxlink
And they moan israeli kids get killed...
Thats what you get when you go into someone elses land and try kicking them out...

'Kay, if that's what we get, so... that means you won't moan once the IDF goes ballistic on Gaza after Israeli kids get killed?

...I'm tired of this over-simplifying of things on ATS. It's really a plague and an insult to any reader's intelligence.

i am not saying that what the Palestinians have done in return is right, in fact although i can see it from their view. they are defending their home. that does not excuse random rockets shot into Israel and suicide bombers, etc.

Violence begets violence. Two wrongs never make a right.

Can someone please explain to me how this is a constructive step towards peace? The Likud government keeps claiming their williingness to negotiate a peace settlement yet they continue expanding settlements.

reply to post by CaDreamer


I posted this in the other thread about the 1600 new homes and it also mentions ANOTHER 2700 that will be approved this month..

Looks like Israel is serious about the settlement freeze for peace..

Can someone please explain to me how Palestinians building apartments in Nablus and Jenin is a constructive step towards peace? After all,...legally, it's on disputed land.
From the source:
“is the third project on disputed lands to be advanced in the past week”.
------
Ariel was built on the hills the nearby Arab villagers called “Jabel Ma'ut” (the mountain of death), because it was an uninhabited area and its terrain made it useless for agriculture or anything else.
The land of Ariel is not a private Palestinian land.


* Lt. General Tom Kelly, Chief of Operations in the 1991 Gulf War:

"I could not defend this land (Israel) without that terrain (Judea and Samaria)... The West Bank Mountains, and especially their five approaches, are the critical terrain. If an enemy secures those passes, Jerusalem and Israel become uncovered. Without the West Bank, Israel is only 8 miles wide at its narrowest point. That makes it indefensible...."

* "The Minimum Requirements for Israel's Defense." is a document submitted to president Johnson :

“the historical, geographic, topographic, political and military reality of the Middle East behooves Israel to control the mountain ridges of Judea, Samaria and the Golan Heights. In fact, the dramatic technological upgrading of Arab military forces, since 1967, has made surprise offensive (e.g. 1973) swifter, ballistic missiles significantly more destructive and precise, population centers and IDF bases more vulnerable and the deployment of reservists (75% of Israel's military force!) much slower and problematic. Hence, the dramatically increasing importance of the mountain ridges of Judea and Samaria in blocking and delaying a surprise invasion, providing Israel's reservists with more time for deployment (Without reservists, Israel would be lethally inferior to invading Arab forces).”

* 100 US retired Generals and Admirals signed a public advertisement in October 1988, contending that Israel should not withdraw from Judea and Samaria — which could not be demilitarized effectively - lest it fails to provide security to its people. The late Admiral "Bud" Nance defined Judea and Samaria's eastern mountain ridge (3,000 foot steep slope), dominating the Jordan Valley, as "the most effective tank barrier" and the western mountain ridge (2,000 foot moderate slope), over-towering Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, as "a dream platform for invasion to the narrow coastal plain."

Originally posted by GLaDOS
Jews mass immigrated to Palestine and just took over and for some reason now, its their land. And its funny how nothings been done, but if it was the other way around (muslims take over jewish land) the US would probably send their army in.

The source you provided in your thread, which have the same ties to this one, is flawed, simply because it omits (deliberately ?) the wide-scale Arab immigration into the land of Israel. This is an historical fact that can be verified by registrations and other measures taken from the Ottomans through the British mandate.

I strongly recommend you read this:

"This immigration factor—or its absence—is paramount. If a significant percent of a population is composed of recent arrivals, then claims of historic tenancy are compromised. This explains why Arab Palestinians and others use the term "intruder" to describe the Jewish population of Palestine. The importance of Jewish immigration to the Jewish population of Palestine in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century is undisputed. But Jewish claims to territorial inheritance and to national sovereignty lay elsewhere, in history rather than demography.

On the other hand, for Arab Palestinians, the character of their demography is at the heart of their claim to territorial inheritance and national sovereignty. Their contention, seen by them as being beyond dispute, is that Arab Palestinians have deep and timeless roots in that geography and that their own immigration into that geography has at no time been consequential. To challenge that contention, then, is to challenge their self-selected criterion for sovereignty.”

www.meforum.org...

reply to post by gravitational

The land of Ariel is not a private Palestinian land.

There are VAST areas of Australia also that are NOT privately owned..

What's you point?
It's still Australian land just as the areas you mention are still Palestinian land..

You wouldn't be trying to mislead with your words right???

If Israel thinks that land is important to it's defense then why not suggest a swap for land that Palestine may find useful??

Or do you think it's fine for Israel to just take and take????

It really disgusts me that these illegal dwellings are still called "settlements",
Well guess what people? This isn't biblical time's, so the words settlers and settlements are kinda out dated, and furthermore there is nothing settled here.
Nothing ......
Whether its 277 homes or 1600 followed by a few thousand more, well,,,, its still illegal
If the self proclaimed gods gifts to humanity (the Jew) keep demanding their self proclaimed rights from the book that they have written, then there will never be peace and NOTHING will ever be SETTLED.
No wonder some people want to throw stones at israel every now and then

reply to post by gravitational


Nice to see you shifting the blame onto Palestinians building homes on their own land as their rate of natural increase and population growth grows expotentialy.

I'm not using my backyard. The grass is dry and it really has little use. Does that give my neighbour the right to extend his home onto my land? My local council isn't using a plot of land (i.e. land which is not private) yet I can't simply build another home there for myself.

Controling the Mountain ridges of Judea and Samaria is entirely different when compared to building settlement upon this land. The IDF can control these mountains without builidng homes on them illegaly. So the settlements for defense purposes is an entirely ludicrous and idiotic statement. Last time I checked, putitng your citizens on the frontline isn't safe. Nice try though.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


Since there never was a Palestinian entity in Judea and Samaria to begin with, and since Israel was attacked from these lands, both by the Jordanian legions and local armed gangs, the Arabs in Judea and Samaria have no grounds to claim a darn thing.
Imagine the astonished average Arab in the west bank. One day he is a Jordanian, the next day he's magically a Palestinian.

For some reason you conveniently forget that Jews bought lands from Local Arabs, since the 19th century. Your dry grass is mine if you willingly sold it to me.

“Nice to see you shifting the blame onto Palestinians building homes on their own land as their rate of natural increase and population growth grows expotentialy”.

I see, the Israelis in Judea and Samaria should stop having babies, so no new generations grow, and no housing needs as a result. Hmmm LOL, that's a good one. The poor Palestinians, “their natural growth grows exponentially”. What an arrogant statement.

I see you completely avoided dealing with the large-scale Arab immigration during the Ottomans and the Brits. Ya know....those same Arabs that immigrated to the land of Israel, that all of a sudden decided to call themselves Palestinians in 1967, even though there never was a group of people called Palestinians.

PLO executive committee member Zuheir Mohsen :

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.”

Ahmed Shuqeiri, chairman of the PLO, to the UN Security Council”

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

reply to post by gravitational

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Whatever t5he f it is, it certainly ain't Israel..

How about for once addressing why you believe Israel should be allowed to go against International Law and continue to steal land from Palestine..

Please don't use the BS "defense" excuse when we all know it's "private citizens" that are living in these newly built houses, not soldiers...

reply to post by gravitational


Backinblack states it perfectly. The historical or ancestral origins of the Arabs in the West Bank dosen't matter. What matters is Israel has no legal right to build settlements in the West Bank (in fact it is illegal) let alone annex sections of the West Bank.

For some reason you conveniently forget that Jews bought lands from Local Arabs, since the 19th century. Your dry grass is mine if you willingly sold it to me.

Right, that is correct. But once again these are private property rights. It is not up to Israel to decide wether construction should be permited in Palestine on private land owned by Jews. It is up to (theoretically/legally) the Palestinian authority. So, if I sold you my backyard, you still need the authorization of my local government which holds sovereignty over the land in order to construct an extension of your house.

I see, the Israelis in Judea and Samaria should stop having babies, so no new generations grow, and no housing needs as a result. Hmmm LOL, that's a good one. The poor Palestinians, “their natural growth grows exponentially”. What an arrogant statement.

No they shouldn't stop having babies. However, they shouldn't be in the West Bank as the settlements are illegal. They can go have babies in West Jerusalem or Tel Aviv. I really don't mind, in fact I would like to see the rate of natural increase of Jews in Israel increase so they aren't demographically overun by Arabs.

And no it is not an ignorant statement. Quite to the contrary in fact. The rate of natural increase is a serious element within every countries economy. In Australia the problem is its too low, while in most the Arab world (especially Palestine) it is to high and the governments resources (seeing they don't really have any capital or land resources) aren't sufficient enough to deal with it as such. To claim that the rate of population growth is not a serious economical factor would be stupid.

I see you completely avoided dealing with the large-scale Arab immigration during the Ottomans and the Brits. Ya know....those same Arabs that immigrated to the land of Israel, that all of a sudden decided to call themselves Palestinians in 1967, even though there never was a group of people called Palestinians.

I really don't see the poin tyou are trying to make here. Care to explain? Unless of course this is another one of your attempts to deny that a Palestinian people exist or have rights. You and Golda Meir would have been great drinking buddys.

just wondering, ive heard of west bank before. who really owns west bank?

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


If you bothered reading the link I have provided, you wouldn't be asking such a stupid question.
Arab immigration has everything to do with who owns the land. Obviously you didn't read a word.

Here is the link again: www.meforum.org...


So called Palestinian leaders, Arab leaders and historians have said, there is no such thing as a Palestinian people. Why do you, someone from the land down under, who has no ties to the conflict or the Arabs (or do you?) say the opposite?

Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian to Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 1946:
""There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not."

as for security, once again you dismiss what dozens of US military experts claim and bring your own unsubstantiated theories without ever being in the area. Yes MR militant, that's one major flaw with all your pseudo intellectual arguments. Since you have zero knowledge on strategics and security, especially in the middle east, I suggest you read again (if you ever did) what those Generals had to say.
At one point you suggested Israeli outposts that will alert from an incoming attacks.
In 1973 Israel had sophisticated alert systems in mount Hermon and Golan heights. That didn't stop the Syrian army from almost taking the entire northern part of Israel. 9 miles from the green line to the Mediterranean sea is indefensible period. Every Israeli settlement to be evacuated, has a potential of becoming Palestinian launching base for attacking Israel.
This is no fantasy since we see it all the time in Gaza strip. Once Israel will retaliate in populated areas, you and the Arabs will be whining once again.

Incidentally, under British mandate, Golda had an ID card with the title Palestina. All Jews at that time had an ID with Palestina written on it. That's Palestina and not Palestine. Exactly as the Romans called the land of Israel once they concurred it.

There were no Arabs in the world when Rome concurred the land of Israel

The Jewish volunteers to the British army during WWII were called Palestinians.
There was even a financial tool used by the Zionist movement called ”Anglo-Palestina bank” who later became “ Bank Leumi of Israel”. If you are looking to prove there was a Palestinian anything in history, you really need to look someplace else.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8fce6a0a8838.jpg[/atsimg]

There is already a “Palestinian” state, and its name is Jordan.

1959, the Prime Minister of Jordan: "We are the Government of Palestine, the army of Palestine and the refugees of Palestine."

1970, George Habash, leader of the PLO: "Let us not forget the East Bank of the River Jordan, where seventy per cent of the inhabitants belong to the Palestinian nation."

1972, King Hussein : "The Palestinians here constitute not less than one half of the members of the armed forces. They and their brothers, the sons of Transjordan, constitute the members of one family who are equal in everything, in rights and duties."

Yasser Arafat: "Palestinian Arabs hold seventy-five per cent of all government jobs in Jordan."

So riddle me this (for the tenth time)
Why didn't the so called Palestinians of the west bank demand an independent state when they were ruled by Jordan. Why didn't the so called palestinians of Gaza demand an independent stae when they where ruled by Egypt?