A note to the American military

reply to post by petrus4


To start with, I am an eight year veteran of the Army and DoD.

That being said, I agree with most of what you posted there. The only problem I really have with it is that, while we may not be fighting for the safety and security of Americans (besides the other soldiers anyway) we are saving lives and bringing people to a better quality of life. I wouldn't say these things, mind you, if I hadn't actually witnessed it with my own eyes. And before it's said, yes civilians have been killed in these wars as well, I know. That's a discussion for another place however, don't want to derail this thread.

Do I think the reasons we were given to go there were completely on the level? Oh no. Are we making the best of it anyway (with the exception of a few bad apples) by trying to protect lives where and when we can? Emphatically yes.

Long story short; In my opinion human life is more important than the region in which you were born or the political process you subscribe to.

Originally posted by petrus4
a] That the civilian population both of America and other countries, do not feel that any legitimate defense of anyone's freedom has been accomplished by the invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq.

...i've never seen reliable stats on that for usofa civilians, much less any other country, but i'm positive that its nowhere near 100% as your opinion indicates...

Originally posted by petrus4
c] That in said conflicts, the American military has essentially served as corporate mercenaries.

..."essentially" - thats much better, lol...

...actually, the corporate mercenaries are the independent contractors like blackwater (or whatever they call themselves now)... usofa military personnel are paid nowhere near what the federal government pays contractors - and - eric prince proved that him and his people are above the laws that our military personnel are supposed to abide by...

Originally posted by petrus4
d] it isn't actually civilians who can't handle the truth, but the soldiers.

...i seriously doubt that its even half true... i've posted the following before but, apparently, it needs to be posted over and over again...

...if you're going to blame, damn or look down on military personnel because they are part of the killing machine, then you should do the same to everyone else thats part of the machine - such as - employees of boeing, ford motor company, haliburton (its a really big list) and even the food industry workers and truck drivers in afghanistan and iraq ...if you pay federal taxes or if any of your money is spent with any of the companies and corporations involved in the machine, you are a part of the machine too...

reply to post by kro32


The Resource, at least one, that we're getting out of Afghanistan would be Lithium

www.nytimes.com...

One Trillion Dollars worth of untapped sources. That's a lot of Batteries.

Originally posted by ddaniel

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by SirClem

 

You know what I am implying. Since world war 2 the United States has been the most powerful country economically and militarily. You man not agree with all the policies but that is simply a fact. We did not get that way by staying at home and not spreading our influence around the world.

For someone with the Constitution in your avatar, you are unimaginably ignorant of this nation's history. We became the most powerful country in the world because we outproduced everyone. We created goods and services that others deemed important enough to purchase, giving us vast wealth and influence. Now we have all of our production being shipped overseas, and look how great our economy is doing.

edit on 16-8-2011 by ddaniel because: remove vulgarity

Correct! Just to expand on this a little further; kro, the U.S.A was very isolationist for most of the time pre-WW2 which greatly, greatly, GREATLY allowed us to become the superpower we have been. The isolationist policy also paired with the Industrial Revolution, is the equation which sums up the U.S.A today.

While that's fine and dandy and all, the isolationist policy is what kept our economy afloat; this is to say we had all the jobs we needed during the IR (Industrial Revolution) and we didn't need war to "stimulate" the economy.

The isolationism worked like a charm! However, with the said equation above, there was one factor that was corruptible: the IR itself. The banksters and corporations at the time, i.e. the Robber Barons. saw a country ripe for the taking. After they came into power, what did we see? A Federal Reserve propped up, a WW, and a second one that shortly followed. Needless to say, that we played a chess game with Russia after that and look where that almost landed us...nuclear wastelands on two continents.

Isolationism works, but war propaganda and false flags impedes this wonderful policy.

Anyway I've derailed the thread with this history lesson, and now back on topic. Thank you for this! This should be in every private's pamphlet to get them the hell back home. I've heard so many accounts of veterans coming back only to ask, "What's happened to our country?" It's a real smack in the face to them.

Bring them home.

This country's citizens as well as military and police personnel need to WAKE UP soon.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...actually, the corporate mercenaries are the independent contractors like blackwater (or whatever they call themselves now)...

Xi International.

They may have changed the name, but the company is the same bunch'a thug mercs as before.

Originally posted by RedGod

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...actually, the corporate mercenaries are the independent contractors like blackwater (or whatever they call themselves now)...

Xi International.

They may have changed the name, but the company is the same bunch'a thug mercs as before.

...thx for that... i was thinking xe... cant post what i really call em...

Uhhh, the soldiers realized this long before you did. Why do you think they overwhelmingly support Ron Paul, more than all the other candidates combined?

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Actually, I think you're right. Xe not Xi. That looks more familiar. Either way, they're a blight.

reply to post by petrus4


~~~~~~~~~ Please read ~~~~~~~~~~~

Society around the word is collapsing. Everything we have taken for granted will change for the worse.

US is a mindlessly wandering the desert. US does not know who it is. We are starting wars over oil, starting war for profit. We create terrorist (subconsciously without knowing) without them what would US be (at peace? again we have no idea whom we are; so no peace). We start conflict for profit.

Nations around the world are collapsing (economic crisis and conflicts are indicators) US is trying desperately to hold onto the system it has built up. Again we did we build up in the first place?

WE have FAILED to head Eisenhower message.

I pray for everyone to be prepared for what is to come. Again I am not predicting anything this WILL HAPPEN.


Just a matter of time when we see a nuclear bomb explode killing millions of Americans. This will be the catalyst for the downward spiral. (civilization ending).


People living in urbanized areas will suffer the most. Don't be surprised when we start fighting with fellow Americans.



To all the people who think some rising super power is the enemy. It is not. The enemy is also not a Muslim seeking to blow you up (while it may be true now) again we created these terrorist for our benefit (profit).

THE ENEMY IS YOURSELF. We have failed to grow up and decide who we are as a people. We are witnessing not the collapse of "economic" systems. But the collapse of civilizations.

reply to post by kro32


Agreed, the last time we ignored Al-Qaeda threats in the 1990s because Bill Clinton thought that if we had our heads back to the sands and since the Cold war ended with communism no longer a threat, it would ignore the problem but instead we ended up getting 9/11. It just shows that since WW2 isolationism didn't work. While the US and the USSR battled out in the Cold war, we came in top of the victory. Since then, we have not had a major war ever since 1945. Who wants WW3?!!!!

The Kuwaitis were thankful that we came to their rescue after rooting the Iraqis out of Kuwait during the Persian Gulf War.

The South Koreans were thankful that we came to their rescue from North Korea during the Korean War.

Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Croats were thankful that we came to their rescue from being slaughtered by Serbian troops during the Bosnian War.

Ethic Albanians were thankful that we came to their rescue from being slaughtered by Serbian troops during the Kosovo war.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by SirClem

 

I assume you can show us what resources we are getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and how much of it then.

I await your information.

Originally posted by RedGod
That being said, I agree with most of what you posted there. The only problem I really have with it is that, while we may not be fighting for the safety and security of Americans (besides the other soldiers anyway) we are saving lives and bringing people to a better quality of life. I wouldn't say these things, mind you, if I hadn't actually witnessed it with my own eyes. And before it's said, yes civilians have been killed in these wars as well, I know. That's a discussion for another place however, don't want to derail this thread.

I appreciate this reply; and for the sake of balance and honesty, if nothing else, am acknowledging it.

In case any of the rest of the troops are watching, if you want to refute us, THIS is the appropriate way to do it. If you have genuine evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that we are incorrect, then we need you to provide it. We DON'T need continual repetitions of the Colonel Jessup speech.

Please try to understand the difference. Don't keep taking the paternalistic approach and treating us like idiots or children. If we're wrong about the way we're perceiving things, TELL US, in specific ways.

Thanks OP for stating better than I possibly could.

Somehow, it has become acceptable in American society to tear apart those who do not support the troops and the wars they wage. This has to be corrected.

People fought and died so I could criticize these wars (and I will).


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by petrus4

I get the feeling that these folks don't want U.S soldiers on their streets.

I don't blame them. I don't want soldiers patrolling my streets.

If our attempt at democracy (if you can even call it that) has succeeded in Iraq and Afghanistan, then why are innocents still dying? Why are our soldiers still dying? Shouldn't there be shrines to them by now?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by petrus4

Please try to understand the difference. Don't keep taking the paternalistic approach and treating us like idiots or children. If we're wrong about the way we're perceiving things, TELL US, in specific ways.

Oh no, you're absolutely right. I thought I'd made that clear enough in my post. It's your opinion and your wish, so how could that be wrong? It's not up to me or anyone else to determine what you think about the situation, or what you want in the matter, for you. That's all yours, and opinion can't be wrong, simply due to the nature of the beast.

I had this same conversation, or a very close variant, with my sister many years ago - around 30 years ago. She didn't want me to stand up for her or defend her any more, and so I haven't, even to this very day. She's had a rough time of it now and then, but those rough times are hers to handle. I'm not about to get up in her troubles any more.

If I make a promise, that promise is kept.

Originally posted by kro32
It's referred to as the Bush Doctine and its a valid National Policy.

valid?

valid as in how??

just as 'valid' as the Patriot Act?

This theory allows us to intervene and prevent things before they get to that point. Yes there is fighting and deaths involved however it is assumed that it will be far less than having to go to all out war in the future as happened in the past during ww1 and ww2.

LOL, utter nonsense!

after reading such an OP, how can you still come up with such drivel?
trying to justify the occupation, how much you're getting paid kro32?
must be some sweet dollars

and btw.

TOTAL cost of WWII; 1.5 trillion dollars of wich the USA spent 21 %

The economic cost of the war has been estimated at US$1500 billion. Of this, the US spent 21%, Britain 20%, Germany 18% and the USSR 13%. (Source: The Penguin Atlas of World History ; Hermann Kinder and Werner Hilgemann; Originally published as Atlas zur Weltgeschichte). Read more: wiki.answers.com...

TOTAL cost of iraq/afghanistan:
up to this day, almost 1.3 trillion dollars. 100% spent by the USA.

source


so how is this 'valid' policy preventing an all out war?


ETA:
just for the fun of it.

visual respresentation of a TRILLION dollars

reply to post by petrus4


If a soldier said that to my face, he would be laying on the ground knocked out with a split lip for thinking hes better than me

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by petrus4

 

If a soldier said that to my face, he would be laying on the ground knocked out with a split lip for thinking hes better than me

giving some a ´split lip´ for an opinion isn´t exactly gracefull either

reply to post by kn0wh0w


Well I dont like soldiers who have an ego, murdering people doesnt make our country more safe it makes us less safe

Great post , It would appear that many in the US military are finally realising they have been blind to that realisation the whole time. Im happy that people who are in the US military are waking up to that fact.

With regards to the Bush doctrine , pointed out by Kro , if the bush doctrine is a preventative measure to stop future wars sorry conflicts coming to the US , and the military are there to enforce it . Whats the point in the Bush doctrine , America has defense sorted , you have the TSA to humiliate and strip search everyone coming into the US so there is no way any terrorists can get in from the middle east.

So bring back the troops because the middle east cant strike America in any sense other than terrorism on US soil. Just beef up your security , the TSA nazis will make sure no bombs get in on planes .

I'd love to see US foreign policy take a back seat and for America to look inwards rather than outwards, focus on fixing its economy and putting big companies in check as well as the banking system.Maybe then there would be no need for the bush doctrine , as it seems the bush doctrine was created in response to a problem of domestic US terrorism or fear of reprisal from the insane us foreign policy over the last 60 years.

With regards to the resources from iraq or afghanistan its not immediately obvious , but there are certainly big fat construction contracts , and security contracts paid out to companies which either directly fund election campaigns or fund the pockets of ex US presidents or congressmen.
At the same time installing US friendly democracy to better relations with america going forward , its not immediate gain but long term end game policies .