A note to the American military

reply to post by kro32

Isolationism beats the hell out of imperialism. Isolationism is a word invented by globalists FOR globalists. Look what globalists have done to the world.

Originally posted by petrus4
You can't handle the truth!

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

I have noticed, on a fairly consistent basis, that in the exchanges between civilians and soldiers on this forum, soldiers routinely resort to (usually abridged) variants of the above speech, in an attempt to win arguments.

The name of the argument between civilians and the military on these forums can take several forms; but the central issue, is usually:-

a] That the civilian population both of America and other countries, do not feel that any legitimate defense of anyone's freedom has been accomplished by the invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq.

b] That both of these conflicts were begun, entirely unprovoked, by Presidents who were the product of the corporatocracy, and that they were commenced purely for the acquisition of resources and corporate profit.

c] That in said conflicts, the American military has essentially served as corporate mercenaries.

d] That most importantly, the central motivation behind these wars has been imperial, rather than defensive, in any sense of the word whatsoever.

As a result, I have, over a period of several years, reached the conclusion that, unlike Nicholson's quote above, it isn't actually civilians who can't handle the truth, but the soldiers.

You cannot psychologically tolerate the idea that your friends and yourselves have been maimed, psychologically shattered, and killed within conflicts that have been started and fought for no legitimately defensible moral purpose.

That you cannot tolerate this truth, is entirely understandable. I suspect that the realisation of said truth, has had a lot to do with the reason why the topic of military suicides has recently become a lot more prevalent. You struggle with it, and the resulting sense of betrayal by your government, that you have experienced, for us as civilians probably is genuinely unfathomable; but the inescapable reality is that you are not doing good things in Afghanistan or Iraq. You are not making your country safer, and you are not contributing to America maintaining or improving its' image or reputation in the world. In fact, you are doing the opposite.

This message is not intended as an attack upon you. The reason why I am pointing this out, and begging you to begin to accept the unacceptable, is because for you to do so, is the only way that we can have any hope, of beginning to make this stop.

The current threat to your country is not foreign. It is domestic. The threat has been permitted to become dire. The hour is genuinely late at this point, and your government has almost reached the final stage of the pathocratic lifecycle which, if it is permitted to run to completion, will literally take the United States of America back to Auschwitz; but not as the cavalry.

Janet Napolitano has recently spoken of her perception of the threat of "domestic terrorism." She is clearly aware of the possibility of many American soldiers realising the truth described above, and she is understandably gravely concerned by the implications.

Your country's government has been invaded and overrun by psychopaths. You can find links to scientific information about psychopaths in some of these forums. These psychopaths are not individuals who are capable of feeling love, empathy, or remorse. They will quite happily drain all of the blood from the veins of every human being on this planet, in order to achieve their own aggrandizement.

It is these psychopaths who ordered you to go and risk your lives in Afghanistan and Iraq. They exploited your loyalty, your sense of honour, and your commitment to the oath that you have taken, and they did so purely for the sake of their own profit.

Again, for you to feel uncontrollable rage in response to this, is only human. All I ask, however, is that said rage is directed at those who have truly earned it; the psychopathic, mass-murdering criminals who have subverted the government of the country that was intended to be the light of the world.

The civilians of America, and the rest of the planet, urgently require your defense from these psychopaths. This, and not the pointless, senseless commission of attrocities against civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq, is the truly critical, and genuinely honourable battle that exists before you.

edit on 15-8-2011 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

My only question to you is, are you serving in the military?
Just curious....

reply to post by SirClem


They made America the strongest country in the world. Isolationism doesn't give you that.

You must grow and maintain influence on a global scale in order to remain at the top as there will certainly be other countries doing it.

reply to post by kro32

At the top? The U.S. is at the top of what? Besides military might, bombing people around the world into submission. For whom kro?
The land of milk and honey? The FDA outlaws MY milk and honey.
Freedom? The TSA plans to expand search and seizure ops.
The U.S. has been robbed blind, the people will learn soon enough. Maybe they will learn how and why before the lights go off.
Good night kro.

Originally posted by kro32


I assume you can show us what resources we are getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and how much of it then.

I await your information.

I knew this thread would go down hill as soon as i saw that screen name.....The fact is, rare indeed are the men who would not be willing to sacrifice the welfare of all for the sake of securing their own welfare..... money seems to talk even to the seemingly most patriotic of souls, especially when we are talking a significant amount of it.....without knowing who it is that is actually at the root of this thing, you can swing at the branches and chop them off however much you want, but the tree will still grow from that root....unfortunately, people have become too politically correct and modernized to believe who these people are......These people are the ones who fund both sides of the wars....they aren't interested in being payed back with the same money either...they know that all through the world's history, no country has ever been able to sustain the cost of a war without having to borrow from them.....you can pay back every single dollar and you would still owe the interest!!! how are you going to pay that? your land.....and you have already done that thanks to the swift movements of the pen that was directed by your representatives in 1913....that's why you have a mortgage today......these wars are very pregnant in their intent....all the while, they are patting the soldiers on the heads and giving them rewards and talking of honor and freedom.......they are gaining the ground of the stubborn and obsolescent that do not want to use their system of chains and silent slavery, and they are riding on the backs of the world's military, saddles and harnesses have been donned in the shape of superior officers, hungry for the ranks of general......meanwhile, check points sprout up all over the country that these soldiers promise to protect, money grubbing thieves on wallstreet are pilfering the purses of the citizens, making it harder for them to see their place in the world....they have taken over the media in order that we hear their points of view instead of the truth....they have put a gulf between the people and their representatives...for none on either side of the party line will speak out of the atrocities, mainly for fear of losing their places and the money that lines their luxurious life.....the saddest part of it all is, that all of it was planned, it was planned to wear you down so hard and make you so tired of the system that you will be compelled to accept the system that they will present to you in the future....as if it was a lifevest.....they will have taken such complete control of the countries and all without picking up a gun....they have given us rope and we will entangle ourselves while they wait in the shade, watching and waiting for their moment.....that's what these wars are about.....

reply to post by kro32


I find your remarks to be off topic. you have a valid argument, but are missing th3 point and detailing an excellent thread.


to the op: what tends to bother me the most (I am an army vet) is the use of the word "service".

HA! it is a JOB.

you can take your "service", and all of the "debt of gratitude" that it implies, and shove it. I certainly never asked for your services.

reply to post by SirClem


You know what I am implying. Since world war 2 the United States has been the most powerful country economically and militarily. You man not agree with all the policies but that is simply a fact. We did not get that way by staying at home and not spreading our influence around the world.

Well my original respons was very on topic however people tend to try to lead me off into all sorts of weird directions which I must defend.

I will go back on topic then so thanks for pointing that out.

Originally posted by queenofsheba
My only question to you is, are you serving in the military?
Just curious....

If you consider what I have written to be false, and for refutation of it to be possible, then refute it. Seeking information that you can use to attack me, rather than my argument, strongly implies that while you are conceding that what I have written is rhetorically/rationally unassailable, you still feel a need to attack me anyway, via the only means possible.

Originally posted by kro32
Well my original respons was very on topic however people tend to try to lead me off into all sorts of weird directions which I must defend.

I will go back on topic then so thanks for pointing that out.

Kro, I'd like to request that you leave this thread, if you are willing to do so. I consider you a persistent troll; I have seen you disrupt a number of other topics, and also provoke people in an extremely transparent and blatant manner. My goal, on the other hand, is to have a serious conversation here.

reply to post by petrus4


Valid question....I feel it provides relevance and background to your experience. If you are willing to answer the simple question.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by kro32
Well my original respons was very on topic however people tend to try to lead me off into all sorts of weird directions which I must defend.

I will go back on topic then so thanks for pointing that out.

Kro, I'd like to request that you leave this thread, if you are willing to do so. I consider you a persistent troll; I have seen you disrupt a number of other topics, and also provoke people in an extremely transparent and blatant manner. My goal, on the other hand, is to have a serious conversation here.

i concur...can we have a vote on this?

Originally posted by petrus4
...As a result, I have, over a period of several years, reached the conclusion that, unlike Nicholson's quote above, it isn't actually civilians who can't handle the truth, but the soldiers.

You cannot psychologically tolerate the idea that your friends and yourselves have been maimed, psychologically shattered, and killed within conflicts that have been started and fought for no legitimately defensible moral purpose.

That you cannot tolerate this truth, is entirely understandable. I suspect that the realisation of said truth, has had a lot to do with the reason why the topic of military suicides has recently become a lot more prevalent. You struggle with it, and the resulting sense of betrayal by your government, that you have experienced, for us as civilians probably is genuinely unfathomable; but the inescapable reality is that you are not doing good things in Afghanistan or Iraq. You are not making your country safer, and you are not contributing to America maintaining or improving its' image or reputation in the world. In fact, you are doing the opposite.

Hey buddy, just to say this has been one of the better posts I have seen around here lately. Great job. Got my F&S the minute I read the quoted above. You fricken nailed it to the wall!

It is exactly the problem at this point. It isn't us. Americans are generally a fun loving, peaceful people brought up with decency and manners. Or at least that's the way it used to be. The last thing on planet earth any of us want to do is shoot people from the middle east. How many more military deaths is it going to take before the military realizes themselves they are being used like dirty tampons. When are they going to stop these insane freaks from perpetuating death, destruction, and cronyism across this planet?

When the nukes fall on you, MR MILITARY, and by extension on us too - only then will you know the true extent of your failure to act at home and rid us of this scum. But by then it will be too late. The Declaration of Independence gives the right of the people to abolish the government when it no longer serves the needs of its people. And it came before the Constitution. Read it. For the call has come.

Originally posted by SirClem
reply to post by sdcigarpig

 

A lot of words, but sadly you are wrong.
It is about resources. The corporations want the resources. Al Qaeda is the boogeyman so we can go bomb people and get their stuff.
Corporations want YOU to pay to make it safe for them to steal stuff. That is the reason industry has moved out of the U.S. to third world nations, because labor is cheap. It is cheap because the people aren't free to protest working for slave wages. The U.S. has the biggest prison population in the world working for slave wages.
Coincidence? I think not.
Your government guards and protects the drug trade that destroys many of your friends and neighbors. It is all interconnected, but not all that difficult. Nothing is sacred but the truth, and you don't necessarily have right to the truth.

Yet I do not see how I am wrong. Al Qaeda, there has been no proof that they are not the organization that they have shown themselves to be, it was proven that the Taliban, and possible the government of Pakistan was giving them sanctuary. I am not wrong that there was no war declared by congress, so therefore we are not at war. If we were at war there would be a whole set of laws that would have been followed, and the gloves would have been taken off of the US military to go in, do the job and get out. The corporations want to make money, that is their goal, yet many people tend to forget that. A corporation is in it to make money not be charitable. It is proven and there is documentation that the US government gave Sadam Hussaine the technology for biological and chemical weapons, and that he turned around and used them several times, to include against Iran during the Iraq/Iran war, and against the Kurds. This being a mustard gas attack, and according to all of the Treaties on warfare that has been signed by the majority of countries out there, this is considred to be inhumane.
And if you want someone to blame then my assessment of the US congress and the state governments is very much correct. It is the US congress that holds the purse strings, and ultimately they did not close it, and the other reason why businesses are leaving the US, and they have since Carter was president is all of the regulations and red tape that the government imposes on business. Combine that with the fact that We the People are looking for cheap goods and gee, what do you think most businesses are going to do, move production to give the US consumer what it wants, cheap goods. Think about that the next time you go to say, Walmart or dollar general, take a good hard look at where items are made in, most of it being made in China.

Originally posted by queenofsheba
reply to post by petrus4

 

Valid question....I feel it provides relevance and background to your experience. If you are willing to answer the simple question.

edit on 15-8-2011 by queenofsheba because: spelling

Sorry. If you want to discredit me, you're going to have to try something else; like actually responding to what I've said.

Awsome post OP I agree with ya 100%....Vets and Millita, I got respect for you as people and Americans none the less, but the war you are fighting and defending is obviously no longer for the peoples freedom or our best intrest for reasons well known and undeniable. We need your power and patriotism in our homeland more then ever to stand up against the true enemy! Our corrupt government. That seems to be the most prevalint threat to our freedom. Not the middle east.

We are advocates of the abolition of war, we do not want war; but war can only be abolished through war, and in order to get rid of the gun it is necessary to take up the gun.

War is necessary for peace is a half truth because one kind of war breeds war while other one is mandatory to establish lasting peace. I am not the supporter of unjust wars launched by usurpers to subjugate weak nation states but I am diehard proponent of just wars launched to safeguard fundamental rights of freedom and self-determination. Historical chapters are replete with uncountable paradigms which prove that peace emanating from the barrels of guns and cannons, and harmony gyrating from the flames of war always give birth long lasting impact on globe. War also gives impetus to boost global efforts to join heads to work for peace.

Conclusively, war and peace are intertwined with each other. Therefore, it is the duty of international peace loving community to support the people fighting for just cause. They should strongly oppose those looters who launched wars to safeguard their cheap Charlie concerns. Albert Camus Rightly Said,”in such a world of conflict, a world of victims and executioners, it is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners.” Therefore, one must hammer into mind that freedom and independence that are symbols of peace cannot be achieved through extending begging bowls before power lust dinosaurs; it can only be achieved through united mass action engrossed in gun battle.

sniper

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by SirClem

 

You know what I am implying. Since world war 2 the United States has been the most powerful country economically and militarily. You man not agree with all the policies but that is simply a fact. We did not get that way by staying at home and not spreading our influence around the world.

For someone with the Constitution in your avatar, you are unimaginably ignorant of this nation's history. We became the most powerful country in the world because we outproduced everyone. We created goods and services that others deemed important enough to purchase, giving us vast wealth and influence. Now we have all of our production being shipped overseas, and look how great our economy is doing.

When you say we spread our influence, you mean we spread our military. Do you ever actually read the information on this forum, or do you get all of your oh-so-lacking opinions from liberal professors / media? Constantly occupying other countries has created far more Anti-American sentiment than it has positive 'influence'. If other nations want our help with defense or military operations, they should pick up the bill -- NOT the American taxpayers.

If you truly believe the nonsense you spew, I am truly, truly sorry for you.

To the OP: I don't really have much to add, but good post.

reply to post by marinesniper0317


I noticed you used the phrase "A Just War"..........The war we are talking about is not "A Just War" in the minds of most Americans...Because its considered a justified war to benefit an elite and rich big business regime doesn't mean its necessary for our peace and well being.

Okay, y'all win. I surrender. I've seen enough of this junk around here, and I'm done with it.

I apologize profusely, and all over myself, for any actions I may have mistakenly taken on your behalf, or in your defense. Clearly, I was in the wrong. From a natural selection standpoint, I really should have allowed you to fight your own battles.

It won't happen again.

I'll go on back to my plow, and look out for my own, allowing you to look out for yours without my bothersome interference. I'll fight my own battles, and leave you to yours. Just who the hell did I think I was, anyhow, involving myself in your problems?

I'll leave you to fend for yourselves now, and good luck with your slap-a-soldier fest, and all your future endeavors.