Anonymous Hacks BART

Originally posted by micmac08
reply to post by rboiATS

 

its just seems all to be so messed up.............

The whole worlds messed up and if we do nothing we'll get messed up along with it !

To all ATSers lashing at us, Anonymous, i want to say some little things.

You can say we're useless, but we're still fighting, for your, and our rights.
Maybe for you it seem useless, but we're still trying the last hope

for you it might seem ridiculous, but we have hope.
Instead of complaining, we're actualy changing things and made the medias fully aware about the dirty secrets .

WE did it , and its only a start



We're trying and one day we gonna succeed.

We are Legion

reply to post by AnonymousVan


Expect Us !!

Originally posted by JennaDarling
I have been caught up in lulzsec attacks, not a nice thing.

From everything I've ever read about lulzsec, I'm inclined to believe they are false flag. I haven't spent a huge amount of time around Anon, but I have spent some. Lulzsec just felt...off. It just didn't sound exactly like something that Anonymous would do.

Anonymous have a very subtle pattern to what they do. It's virtually impossible to describe; but if you've seen it, you are able to figure out to some extent, whether or not something truly is Anon, and when it isn't.

apparently anonymous is the only protector of free speech left in the USA. Sad.



Sad indeed.

reply to post by GARN40ish


You too can be a script kiddy! just download the loic and you too can partake in ill thought out plans that will no doubt just result in more loss of privacy.

god forbid anyone actually use their brain.

Anonymous = digital looters

Originally posted by AnonymousVan
To all ATSers lashing at us, Anonymous, i want to say some little things.

You can say we're useless, but we're still fighting, for your, and our rights.
Maybe for you it seem useless, but we're still trying the last hope

for you it might seem ridiculous, but we have hope.
Instead of complaining, we're actualy changing things and made the medias fully aware about the dirty secrets .

WE did it , and its only a start



We're trying and one day we gonna succeed.

We are Legion

You are not making things better, your ill conceived ideas carried out by a legion of script kiddies will only result in the loss of privacy and further restrictions, The MSM will be used to turn the population against you and then as a result they can push more laws, you are playing right into the hands of the system you are trying to beat.

Or is that not plain enough for you to see? What you are doing is worse than nothing.

Why don't you learn some real tech skills and do it properly, seems all anonymous want to do is get publicity, jeez your like a bunch of teenagers in a drama group. It does not take brains or skill to do what you are doing.

Go and think long and hard about what you are trying to achieve and then about the consequences of your current actions...

The more time I spend on this site the more I think you people are facebook paranoid

If Anonymous even has the skill to hack into something like facebook they're not going to do it. It would be counter productive when the flocks can't seem to live without it - and regardless of that slight insult, look at how people use it to coordinate... I highly doubt Anonymous wants to put up walls in communication.

Here's to your paranoia.
“People may have seen claims that Facebook will soon become the owner of publishing rights of private photos—this is simply untrue,”

Facebook TOS
You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:
1.For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
2.When you delete IP content, it is deleted in a manner similar to emptying the recycle bin on a computer. However, you understand that removed content may persist in backup copies for a reasonable period of time (but will not be available to others).
3.When you use an application, your content and information is shared with the application. We require applications to respect your privacy, and your agreement with that application will control how the application can use, store, and transfer that content and information. (To learn more about Platform, read our Privacy Policy and Platform Page.)
4.When you publish content or information using the everyone setting, it means that you are allowing everyone, including people off of Facebook, to access and use that information, and to associate it with you (i.e., your name and profile picture).
5.We always appreciate your feedback or other suggestions about Facebook, but you understand that we may use them without any obligation to compensate you for them (just as you have no obligation to offer them).

I'm not saying there aren't ways around this, and I'm not saying they're not targeting you with advertisements - what I am saying is that Facebook is about as big a problem in your life, as someone breaking into your home and stabbing you in the throat.

And even then it'll probably be someone you know.

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon

Originally posted by AnonymousVan
To all ATSers lashing at us, Anonymous, i want to say some little things.

You can say we're useless, but we're still fighting, for your, and our rights.
Maybe for you it seem useless, but we're still trying the last hope

for you it might seem ridiculous, but we have hope.
Instead of complaining, we're actualy changing things and made the medias fully aware about the dirty secrets .

WE did it , and its only a start



We're trying and one day we gonna succeed.

We are Legion

You are not making things better, your ill conceived ideas carried out by a legion of script kiddies will only result in the loss of privacy and further restrictions, The MSM will be used to turn the population against you and then as a result they can push more laws, you are playing right into the hands of the system you are trying to beat.

Or is that not plain enough for you to see? What you are doing is worse than nothing.

Why don't you learn some real tech skills and do it properly, seems all anonymous want to do is get publicity, jeez your like a bunch of teenagers in a drama group. It does not take brains or skill to do what you are doing.

Go and think long and hard about what you are trying to achieve and then about the consequences of your current actions...

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
It does not take brains or skill to do what you are doing.

Exactly so don't see why people complain s#*t gets leaked if you know the information isn't protected in the first place.

Nothing is worse than those who sit by and do NOTHING and then cry about it later.

Internet censorship is coming with or without Anonymous, to deny that makes you a fool !

Originally posted by trika3000
i keep on reading posts (especially here on ATS, and a few other comment threads) which appear that the understanding of what Anonymous is and does is being thought out by some clandestine group of people that somehow follow orders from superior members who are computer whiz kids (or disinfo-agents provocateurs).

To a certain extent, that's what they are. Anon aren't as completely decentralised as they like everyone to believe. I'm not saying that there is a rigid hierarchy there, by any means; there are genuine decentralised elements, and they are strong. There are, however, private IRC channels, and you also don't get into the LOIC hive unless *someone* trusts you, either.

Or that Anonymous is some aimless revolutionary (or Terrorist) group of hacker thugs who are in a big buick flying down the highway with no one at the wheel drunkenly slamming into whoever is on the road ahead of them.

Most of Anon's motivation is derived from wanting to smash things. You're probably not going to appreciate my pointing that out, since your goal is to apparently generate positive PR; but it is the reality, in my experience.

That is not to say, mind you, that they can't be motivated to help people in positive terms, at all. They can be, and they often are. It's just that smashing things is the primary underlying appeal, and it is also the reason why LOIC attacks are typically used at the beginning of most ops, as a recruiting tool. It's the same principle as having most good movies start off with an action sequence, to act as a hook for the audience.

Metaphors and discriptions don't really work when trying to define an anomally such as Anonymous. Anonymous is amorphous and alive like a thought which leads to more thoughts and insights.

There's a lot of this sort of talk going around about Anon. There has been for years. If there's one thing that the group loves doing, it's to make itself look as though it's motivations are unknowable, mysterious, and completely incomprehensible; similar to how some people think serial killers don't have a reason. Occasionally that might be true to an extent, but for the most part, it's pretentious BS.

Anonymous are not just Hackers or Script kids (although some Anonymous are)

This is true. The majority of Anonymous, I suspect, were born after 1990, and tend to view the Internet as their native element, but there are at least a minority of older people around. They tend to stay very much in the background, however.

Anonymous does not only exist on the internet (although, almost everyone to some extent exists on the internet, like us here now)

Again, true. Chanology was what really put Anonymous on the map, so to speak; and that was very largely an offline op.

Anonymous can be confusing and paradoxical.

I don't really find this, truthfully. Anon certainly want to be seen as confusing and mysterious, as mentioned, but to me, they're actually fairly consistent.

a] They are uncompromisingly libertarian. By uncompromisingly, I mean uncompromisingly. 4chan is a good example of freedom taken to the point where it hurts, and it is one of the very last such examples to be found anywhere in the Western world.

b] They feel intense rage over their lack of freedom in offline life. Said rage motivates them to engage in antisocial behaviour towards other people online. There are also times when they engage in antisocial behaviour, purely because they think that it is the only form of anything vaguely resembling freedom, that they really have left.

c] Most of the post-Chanology newfags (their term) are partly motivated by a desire for social justice, as well as cracking and being destructive.

d] Anonymous' initial roots were deeply sociopathic and vicious; and old school Anon still is that way. They will tend to chastise newfags for wanting to be compassionate, deriding that as a weakness.

Similar to how the Punk, Dada, Abstract or Surreal art movements appeared confusing and sometimes conflicting within each movement. Similar to how Socrates condemned the "States" random and arbitrary laws, yet still obeyed the law and drank the hemlock. It is not "double speak" or cognitive dissonance, it is merely a means to accomplishment (or success) in which everyone is limited by what means are available and what is trying to be accomplished.

While being a "group" and not being a group at the same time, while having "members" and also everyone being a member, while hacking and condemning hacking and objecting to secrecy while wearing masks and being anonymous, the Anonymous "Hive Mind" seems hypocritical if not at least disjointed and random.

Maybe not everyone is actively participating in a specific action - Still, everyone with a voice can be heard and Anonymous members are very concerned about what others have to say and do take every possibility into consideration.
There are certain "rules" to any idea or movement, otherwise it would be a different idea or movement (does that make sense?).
If it doesn't follow the Anonymous "way" or core values, then it isn't Anonymous. Similar to how people can say they are this or that religion or hold tenets of belief but don't really follow their said beliefs or hold the convictions of those beliefs. (as we all know Christians who we also know aren't really Christians)

Anonymous individuals might have different angles and perspectives but the "Cause" is the same, and there are only a limited number of ways for that "Cause" to be carried out.
As an example, you couldn't be a "Punk-Rocker" and only play and listen to country music. That would make you a country musician who mistakenly (or puposefully) is calling yourself a punk-rocker (and vice versa). Or if you were a Moslem attending only Jewish temple and only reading hebrew literature calling yourself a Moslem wouldn't make you one. And this also goes for Anonymous with the exception being every/anyone can be Anonymous as long as your core beliefs don't conflict with Anonymous's values (a meth cook or unscrupulous banker couldn't be Anonymous).

Anonymous is not a group as generally defined by words. It is a movement or an idea, try to think in abstract terms beyond the definitions given to you by those who oppose (or don't understand) Anonymous, (like the MSM and/or various propaganda machines who seem to like the term "Hacktivists" or describe Anonymous as being basically juvenile delinquents DDOSing websites)

In a way you are part of Anonymous as you have made your "feelings" known on a public forum and those "feelings" are taken into account by other Anonymous members who are actively participating in Anonymous activities (this isn't a small group of people with a grudge).
Anonymous struggles with the "angst" that comes from trying to be aware and considerate of other peoples ideas and feelings, yet still having to participate actively what they feel they are "called" upon to do.
Those who do not struggle with this angst are not really Anonymous and are just calling themselves Anonymous, yet at the same time who is to say other than that individual if they are Anonymous or not? But that individual may find themselves being looked at as being hypocritical or making false claims by other Anonymous members and will be "called out" to either explain themselves or stop doing what they are doing (Anonymous is somewhat self regulating).

The following is a small breakdown of only a few of Anonymous's, "Operations" - "Messages" - and "Clarifications" -All titles i've selected are from just a small slice of Youtube videos and doesn't include websites, blogs and twitter feeds.

*OPERATIONS (things being or that have been done):

- OPERATION ALGERIA

- OPERATION EGYPT

- Anonymous - Operation Malaysia

- Anonymous attack again! Syrian Ministry of Defenses Website Redesigned

- OPERATION BAHRAIN

- Wisconsin & Anonymous Strike Back!

- US Chamber of Commerce, HBGary and Hunton & Williams Caught in Domestic Spy Plot

- 'Anonymous' Targets Wall Street with 'Operation Icarus'

- ANON Attacks Koch Brothers

- Anonymous v. Westboro Baptists
_____________________________________

*MESSAGES (A Call to like Minds):

- ANONYMOUS - OPERATION BLING - A Call To Action

- Anonymous Message to the Global Media
_____________________________________

*CLARIFICATIONs (Anonymous is an Idea):

- To Clarify Anonymous

- Anonymous Speaks! 03/05/2011

- What is Anonymous? Understand Us!
_____________________________________

Also, it helps to realize how much irony and sardonic humor is involved. Some Anonymous do it just for the Lulz.


A message from 70 years ago...

Originally posted by AnonymousVan
To all ATSers lashing at us, Anonymous, i want to say some little things.

You can say we're useless, but we're still fighting, for your, and our rights.

Yes, but the problem is that you're not necessarily doing yourselves any favours here either, long term. Anonymous *do* need to maintain at least a minor degree of positive PR if you don't want various national governments devoting truly large amounts of resources to tracking you down. You're not as completely invincible as you'd like to believe, either; there have been arrests made in at least the UK before.

Attack corporations; do NOT attack civilian infrastructure. In terms of the service itself, that also means Facebook. Doing so will only make you enemies.

Originally posted by rboiATS
reply to post by AnonymousVan

 

Expect Us !!

You are not a true member of Anonymous if that is what you are trying to get us to believe....

Generally, people who are trying be anonymous don't go around dropping hints as to the fact that they are part of the group...

Just saying.

Dear ATSers


Most of you seem to not understand some details

You tolerate doublespeak, we promote freespeech.

You are hypocriticals, we speak frankly our mind

You want peace and freedom, but fear the consequencies.

You live in political correctness, we stand in raw honesty

You think you are a beacon of hope, we see you as the people who are burying freedom.


Now, call us whatever you want, but at least WE are doing something.

Tell us you can do better, but prove it at least.

Instead of scolding and lashing us,just think for a moment, what could you do to actualy HELP

Im a part of Anonymous, yes, but you can be a part of us, everyone can be a part of it, because if you believe in an ideal of freedom, then we're all Anonymous.


Now, for all who are already thinking about a comical or bitter reply, just think for a moment,if you really need to look so smart by ridiculing my post, just think if its really useful , when we are trying to communicate.

reply to post by AnonymousVan


Van,

What are these details that "most don't understand"?

I see people here, like you and me, trying to communicate their ideas, beliefs and thoughts. Tolerance of others ideas beliefs and thoughts is not a bad thing. It is good that Anonymous believes in freespeach. That should mean that you support the right of people to disagree with you.

The thought that "we are hypocrites" for speaking what "we" feel is your right to an opinion.
The thought that "you frankly speak your mind" is the same thing. What it appears that you aren't taking into account is that all of us are not exactly alike and that understanding is a possible result of that two way exchange.

The fact that "we" want peace and freedom, should be a starting point as "you and we" have something in common. The fact that people fear consequences is natural in the human experience.

As a fact, "you" too fear consequences. Most anonymous hacktavists make a concerted effort to remain as such as they fear the consequence of being identified and charged for illegal activities they are involved with.

You say "we" live in political correctness and that "you" stand in raw honesty. You might not realize that not being exactly alike doesn't make a person stating their thoughts, ideas and beliefs one way or the other. Your statement is based on your perception, actual experiences may vary. I mean "you" do support "our" right to have different opinions, thoughts, ideas and beliefs don't you?

You say "we think that we are a beacon of hope" while "you see us as burying freedom".
Please explain. I know that I didn't get a memo promoting ATS as anything. Like others, I found a place where I could try and gain more understanding of others who have different thoughts, opinions, beliefs and ideas than myself.

I am not calling anyone anything. As far as doing something, it is "your" perogative.

I do what I can. I do what I feel I can to right things that I see as wrong. I do my best to do take action legally and talk to others about my beliefs, ideas, thoughts and opinions. Sometimes it "Helps", sometimes it doesn't make a damn difference. Some don't see anonymous as doing anything, let alone HELPING.

When I say that I don't agree with the non legal methods that some in your group use, that is my right to free speach. You do support that? Or is it only when others agree with you that it is free speach?

If as you say, all it requires is a belief in an ideal of freedom (not sure if you mean idea instead) that I could be anonymous, how would you know whether or not I am? And whose ideal/idea is it anyway? Some have the concept of freedom that they do what they can because they can. By that concept I could hurt all those who I wanted to. (I don't think that the concept is freedom, I think it is sheer stupidity.)

Not mad, not jelly, not comical or bitter. Just like you say, I am trying to communicate and it is a two way street requiring both sides talking to each other (not just calling people uneducated, haters or sheeple) to hopefully gain understanding.

Respectfully,

p

reply to post by AnonymousVan


You should have a read at my two posts in this thread....They both apply to what you say....

reply to post by pwndnewb


When he says you could be anonymous, he's not implying that you actually are, he's simply saying that you could be anonymous if you chose to be. Anyone can be anonymous. It's a state of being rather than a group. Many people are failing to grasp this concept.

I appreciate your thoughtful posts but I have to respectfully disagree with you. The reason why Anon may have to "violate" the law is because the "law" is controlled by special interests and does not apply to everyone equally the way it's supposed to. If the playing field was level, then condemning Anon for their approach might well be valid. If you look at the bigger picture for a moment... You yourself say that even your own approach doesn't always help. There are lots of people doing the exact same things as you, and are getting the exact same result. Pleasantries and polite conversation just isn't getting the job done. Anon may prove futile in the end as well, but they are at least upping the ante.

They are fighting for you... Even if you don't agree with them, and you should appreciate that just as you ask that they appreciate that you disagree with them.

All of this "you" "they" and "I" business is counterproductive to the conversation when trying to make a point to or about Anon. They are fighting to end those separations. They are fighting for "Us ALL."

Civic Center and Powell Street stations are closed right now. Glad I don't have to commute home tonight. and this just in... Montgomery Street station is now closed .. and I would imagine that they will close the Embarcadero real soon.. What a nightmare.

ETA

A nightmare for the commuters.. I believe in what Anonymous is doing!

Looks like the protest is generally peaceful so far, good job Anonymous.

Originally posted by AnonymousVan
Dear ATSers

Most of you seem to not understand some details

You tolerate doublespeak, we promote freespeech.

You are hypocriticals, we speak frankly our mind

You want peace and freedom, but fear the consequencies.

You live in political correctness, we stand in raw honesty

Not everyone here is a complete hypocrite, and not everyone here minces words. I came here from another forum which was much, MUCH worse on the authoritarian front, believe me.

Now, call us whatever you want, but at least WE are doing something.

There are times when Anonymous can and do accomplish positive and beneficial things. I've seen it happen, and I view them as being a fundamentally good thing, unlike some here. I'm only expressing doubts, in the specific case of Facebook. There have been people who have used Fb as a means of persuing goals that Anon have actually collaborated on, such as the Middle East ops, etc.

Doing something is good. Just make sure that said *something* is actually going to work towards the forward progress of the overall goal. If you just do something for the sake of doing something, and don't think about whether or not it's actually a good idea, then you're potentially only going to harm yourselves.

reply to post by SilverStarGazer


SilverStarGazer,

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Would you agree that the concept of Anonymous mean something different to different people? It seems to me that different people stating what Anonymous is, don't say the exact same thing.
I've said before that I think that the cause is rightous but that I don't agree with the the illegal methods that some claiming Anonymous membership use. Does that make me 1/2 Anonymous?

It is your right to disagree with me. The fact that you do so respectfully does make it easier to maintain the avenues of communication and hopefully gain understanding of each other and our differing ideas. Though I disagree, you make some good points as to why some Anonymous members feel that they have to break the law. As you say they are upping the ante. My questions would be "who's life (other than their own and since they are hiding is their own at risk) are they using as the currency to up that ante? Could it be uninvolved people who just happen to get their data stolen? Perhaps maybe callers to an inefficiently protected police tip line? BART clients who use an added service? What about police officers and their families? Surely you don't believe that all of them are corrupt? And who or what gives the right to do so? Why is anonimty that Anonymous touts as a right and as something fought for, something that is being removed for these uninvolved people? Is that not hypocritical? Should I appreciate them for that?

The fact that sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't, doesn't mean that I nor anyone else should give up trying to legally change the system.

As far as the "we" "you" thing, you are correct, it is divisive. Look at the post I was responding to, seems to me that the poster was not trying to tear down walls but to build them. Of course, I could be wrong. I am about many things. Perhaps that is why I am here. Personally, I would only rather speak for myself, after all, my thoughts, beliefs, ideas and opinions are mine.

Thanks again for sharing your honest thoughts.

Respectfully,
p