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Are the Masons hiding something or is this fake?

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posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 08:33 PM
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www.biblefacts.org...

Dr. Aaron J. Smith and Dr. Philip W. Gooch. Real People?

"In the months prior to the 1950 attempt of the Oriental Archaeological Research Expedition to find the illusive ark on Mount Ararat, the contents of a curious exchange of letters between Dr. Aaron J. Smith, the expedition's leader, and Dr. Philip W. Gooch were revealed. Quoting from what he claimed were ancient records in the possession of a Masonic order to which he belonged..."

"...her diary was placed in her mummified hands in a crystal quartz case, with tempered gold hinges and clasps, and was discovered by a high-ranking Mason in the latter part of the last century. The original and the translation are now in the possession of the Order."

"Subsequent correspondence with Dr. Gooch did not result in concrete evidence concerning the whereabouts of Amoela's diary, and his death shortly thereafter widened the credibility gap even more, as he never revealed the name or chapter of the Masonic lodge."




posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 09:39 PM
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Hmm I do not know any more than what you have provided but you have peaked my curiosity and I for one will be looking into this further.
If anyone else has further information please share it.



posted on Aug, 18 2004 @ 10:16 PM
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In fact, i'd bet that it is, and im not a betting man. The reason for my doubt does not stem for my pride in my order and my fellow Freemasons, although there is plenty of that. It stems from very simple yet important details missing from this very brief writing. Without trying to attack the hard to imagine facts such as this womans age, they type of coffin, etc. There are the glaring questions which naturally come to mind, like: Where was this woman buried, and why are there so many details to the description of the coffin which is quite strange in its own right. How do we know she was mummified, and why was this technique performed on such a woman? Why are there so many strange details describing how she was buried but yet no details what-so-ever about where she was buried, who found her, and where her body is now? What about her son, being her son he must know something if not everything contained in her diary. And what type of diary can hold 547+ years of human history yet fit in your hands??????? Saying the individual who found it/her, was a high ranking Mason is very weak statment, very vauge, almost certainly a lie. Who is the man, and what lodge did he belong to, how do we know he was a Mason, and if so how do we know he was high ranking? Its funny how all strange this that Masons were supposedly involved in are high ranking, isnt it? How come "low ranking" Masons don't get involved in any of these things?

My hypothesis of this document is that someone decided to get really creative one night and write a fairy tale to slander Masonry and support their crazed theological views. So they created an elaborate yet hole filled story, presented in a brief, key detail lacking form, the only details present being those which would strike the common as strange (ie. the mummification, age of the woman, supposed contents of the "diary", descriptions of the coffin, guy being a member of a masonic order) to get the imagination going and hopefully cause one to overlook the questions that would come naturally to the logical mind.



By the way, how was her grave found, and who helped this man dig it up, who described the coffin and her burial? Just some other thoughts which just came to mind.

[edit on 8/18/04 by Khonsu]

[edit on 8/18/04 by Khonsu]



posted on Aug, 19 2004 @ 06:06 PM
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Does anyone have this book and who is the author?

(from the original web site posted on top.)
"This information was taken from the book “Secret of Lost Races” pp. 70-71"



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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This book really says what that web site above describes (I have a copy now). The sub title of the book says, "New discoveries of advanced technology in ancient civilizations."

The author continues to say, following the details of the credibity gap:

"Was Amoela's diary fact or fiction? It is now evident that we will never know the sources of Dr. Gooch's information. One thing, however, we do know. When the great door in the side of the ark was finally sealed, it opened onto a totally new world, devoid of the life that once had been and ready to receive the life that had been preserved. The rampaging flood waters had swept away the great technological antediluvian civilization, shattered it into a million pieces and deposited it in the bowels of the earth, away from the sight of the earth's only remaining tenants."

[edit on 1-9-2004 by lostinspace]



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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So, if all the evidence was "washed away", upon WHAT does he base his arguments?

You see, its a circular argument... an end without a point...



posted on Sep, 1 2004 @ 11:55 PM
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www.talkorigins.org...

Chaldean:

"According to accounts attributed to Berosus, the antediluvians were giants who became impious and depraved, except one among them that reverenced the gods and was wise and prudent. His name was Noa, and he dwelt in Syria with his three sons Sem, Japet, Chem, and their wives Tidea, Pandora, Noela, and Noegla. From the stars, he foresaw destruction, and he began building an ark. 78 years after he began building, the oceans, inland seas, and rivers burst forth from beneath, attended by many days of violent rain. The waters overflowed all the mountains, and the human race was drowned except Noa and his family who survived on his ship. The ship came to rest at last on the top of the Gendyae or Mountain. Parts of it still remain, which men take bitumen from to make charms against evil."


Is this Noela, of Berosus, the wife of Japet?

The three stories give these names for Japet's (Japheth's) wife:

1. Seola (published in 1878)
2. Aloma (published in 1924-based off of Seola)
3. Amoela (published ? -statement says prior to 1950's-a discussion began)

1. With Seola, Javan mentions her death at 800 years of age.
2. With Aloma, Javan mentions her death at 500 years of age.
3. With Amoela, Javan mentions her death at 547 years of age.

Is the Amoela a distortion of the first two novels or does it have its own source?



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 12:15 AM
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The details about mummification is not mentioned with Seola or Aloma. It is only a detail for the Amoela account. The finding of the ancient tomb of Seola mentions this:

"Upon a marble slab, slightly raised from the floor, a heap of dust, tattered fibre, and shreds of gold outlined two human figures lying in the set repose of the dead. Diadems that once crowned the heads of the sleepers had fallen to the floor, and by the side of one of the shapes, where the hand had been, was a cylindrical object which we immediately secured."

The Aloma story says pretty much the same thing here. So Mummification was unique only to the Amoela legend.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 02:45 AM
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I read the letter and the links.
To tie this to masonry is rather preposterous. The writer of the letter may have been a mason but beyond that I fail to make any connection.

Any conspiracy has to have an expected result. The writer may have one but masnory(in general) it doesn't connect for me.

These 'evil spirits' cited in 2nd Peter, if one is to have credence in the letter, are still in hell and have been there.

Interesting, but I just don't buy it.



posted on Sep, 2 2004 @ 08:20 AM
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The first problem: Biblefacts.

When a religious source is where you're getting your information, STOP, and run in the other direction.

The very term "BibleFACTS" should give you a clue as to the evidentiary and historical integrity of such a site.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by LTD602]



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by LTD602
The first problem: Biblefacts.

When a religious source is where you're getting your information, STOP, and run in the other direction.

The very term "BibleFACTS" should give you a clue as to the evidentiary and historical integrity of such a site.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by LTD602]


Secret of the Lost Races-
New discoveries of advanced technology in ancient civilizations
(1977)

Says these words on the inside cover of his book:

"For the past fifty years, there have been an increasing number of historical and archaeological finds made around the world which, because of their mysterious nature, have been classified as "out-of-place artifacts" (ooparts). They have been called this because they appear unexpectedly among the ruins of the past with no evidence of a preceding period of development; their technological sophistication seems far beyond the capabilities of the ancient people among whose remains they were discovered."



posted on Sep, 3 2004 @ 10:03 PM
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SEOLA'S JOURNAL

FINDING THE MANUSCRIPT

Extract from the Author's Note-Book of Travel


NORTH SYRIAN MTS., May 23, 18--.

THIS month must be marked in white; it is the date of a wonderful discovery.
Toiling along the steeps of the Anti-Libanus, on our way to Jabrada, we halted for the midday repast, and, while the guides were preparing it, reclined in the shade of the scanty foliage. As we leisurely surveyed the sterile landscape, our attention was attracted to an object quite unexpected in this desert place, a flower of surprising beauty, which hung from a broad shelf of rock opposite. Edmund sprang forward to gather the wonderful blossom, and, upon reaching the perilous steep, to sustain himself laid hold of the root of a decayed tree which had once grown there. His weight had scarce been thus suspended, when the stump gave way and slid down, carrying with it the earth in which it had been embedded, a portion of the rock, and the rash intruder who had dared disturb its venerable repose.

When it appeared that no injury was sustained, we turned to examine the spot from whence the avalanche descended. Upon the perpendicular face of the rock, now fully exposed, was a clearly defined triangle about eight feet in altitude. A complicated figure sculptured in the centre marked it the work of man. Speculation as to its character was cut short by Monsieur S-----------, who exclaimed: "That figure is the Phoenician Daleth! Plainly as our own language it says: 'This is a door.' Ah, what lies behind?"

In great excitement we sent to the valley for aid; the triangular rock was removed, and proved to be the door of an artificial cave, about twelve feet square, cut into the mountain. The sides of this cavern were smooth, the ceiling was arched, and in the centre of the dome, among unknown sculptured characters, we perceived a cross of peculiar design."



Things to note:

1. It is uncertain why the author left the specific year of discovery blank.
2. The mention of a stone triangle reminds us of the sacred pyramid design revered by the Masons.
3. Also it is unknown why the author excluded the name of the Monsieur S. (there are no other places in the novel in which she leaves blank.)
4. Then another sign of the Masonic Order is the sacred cross. It definitely resembles the Maltese Cross or Mantuan (the author has it drawn out later in the novel).

[edit on 3-9-2004 by lostinspace]

[edit on 3-9-2004 by lostinspace]



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 02:04 AM
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the inconsistencies are probably because it is a fake...

just like the Protocols and the Shroud of Turin... don't pin your hopes on relics that have no provenance... or, as my daddy used to say: If it looks too good to be true.... it is.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by theron dunn
the inconsistencies are probably because it is a fake...



I would have to agree with theron dunn on this one. As he personally knows how manuscrips can be manipulated away from the truth. If these diaries exsist, there is no way to confirm the author. One must read the material with an eye to deception on the part of the author



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

Originally posted by theron dunn
the inconsistencies are probably because it is a fake...



I would have to agree with theron dunn on this one. As he personally knows how manuscrips can be manipulated away from the truth. If these diaries exsist, there is no way to confirm the author. One must read the material with an eye to deception on the part of the author


From the many posts I've seen from Bro. theron I am inclined to agree with you.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 05:31 PM
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Could there be a connection between Dr. Aaron J. Smith and the Smith who wrote the novel Seola?

The author who wrote Seola was named Ann Eliza Brainerd, but it was published under the name Mrs. John Gregory Smith. Her husband was an important politcal figure for the state of Vermont back in the mid 1800's.

www.premier1.net...
quote-
"Smith was also active in politics and was elected to the state
senate in 1858 and 1859. In 1860, 1861, and 1862 he was elected to
the House as a representative of St. Albans, and served as speaker
of the House. In 1863 Smith was elected governor and served two
terms before retiring to devote time to his duties as the president of
Central Vermont and the Northern Pacific Railroad."

Is it possible that John Gregory Smith was that high degree Mason mentioned in the original post? Its not uncommon for Masons to hold political office. I think most are, especially the early fathers of the United States.

Could Dr. Aaron J. Smith have been a relative of these earlier Smiths?

Also note this comment on the Biography of the Smiths:
Quote-
"Mrs. Smith loved to write and was the author of numerous
essays, poems, and miscellaneous writings and of four works
“Dawn to Sunrise,” a collection of essays on religious topics, and
three novels, “Seola,” “Selma,” and “Atla.” Her writings were not
only received with much popular favor but won for her the
friendship and intimate correspondence of Dr. John Lord who was
well known at that time, and other distinguished men of letters and
scholars."

Who was Dr. John Lord?


Here's another link of interest of the historical importance of John Gregory Smith.

www.stalbansmuseum.org...



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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I'm not bashing the Masonic Order. I'm just trying to see if there might be the smallest chance of some truth to this. It would be awesome and most fascinating! The information in Seola is amazing and it reveils some secrets, which most people would not believe, about earth's history.



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by All Seeing Eye

Originally posted by theron dunn
the inconsistencies are probably because it is a fake...



I would have to agree with theron dunn on this one. As he personally knows how manuscrips can be manipulated away from the truth. If these diaries exsist, there is no way to confirm the author. One must read the material with an eye to deception on the part of the author


Wow... isn't that what they call a left handed compliment, where you write something ostensibly nice about someone and then toss in a nasty little innuendo? Very nice...

So, now that you have complimented and slandered me, would you like to show the folks ANYWHERE that I have manipulated the truth away from any manuscript? Just to keep the record straight, you understand... lest any moderator coming by that think that you have actually slandered and defamed me, in violation of the TOS on this forum...



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 11:01 PM
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Sorry if you thought I was complimenting you. I was mearly agreeing with your position. Slander? Im certain you are intelligent enough to spot manipulated materials. I never suggested you personally do this, or at least, I have no knowledge of it.

But my main concern is the paranoia you display. I dont think it was a normal response to what I typed. Are all masons that paranoid? Personally, I find masons to be mind controlled and brain washed. That would explain the paranoia. Masons really remind me of Jehovas Whitnesses in that respect.

I dont normally respond to masons because of this, its like talking to a brick wall. And Im sure you know its a complete wast of time trying to debate a JW.

Reality is such a delicate thing. I do hope your condition improves...........



posted on Sep, 4 2004 @ 11:06 PM
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Yes, i thought that was what you meant... thanks for clearing that up.



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