Facing Ninth Deployment, Army Ranger Kills Himself. 'No Way' That God Would Forgive Him For What H

reply to post by Gorman91


OK fine, this is going nowhere anyways and perhaps I have been a little harsh in my responses to you in particular - my original post was actually more aimed at that other bloke who claimed that the life of one American soldier is worth more than an entire country full of Afghanis. I find this disgusting and it got my hackles up - which is when you stepped in and copped the brunt of it.

One thing you will never convince me of is that 'Collateral Damage' is something to look at as merely a consequence in war. That's nonsense and makes me think the people saying it have no heart whatsoever.

reply to post by Kryties


What you have to realize is this. War is not a place for hearts.

No one ever won a war by caring about civilians. That's why war is evil and it is the chief priority of men to prevent it.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Kryties

 

What you have to realize is this. War is not a place for hearts.

No one ever won a war by caring about civilians. That's why war is evil and it is the chief priority of men to prevent it.

And I am standing up! Bravo! This is true.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Kryties

 

What you have to realize is this. War is not a place for hearts.

No one ever won a war by caring about civilians. That's why war is evil and it is the chief priority of men to prevent it.

It's your reality. Make it however you want.

I want peace, I'm not scared to say it.

Take your reality back for [SNIP].

You're piloting this ship, you think your a nobody? WRONG!

I'll bet Obama reads this site, If your there I'm sorry you inherited this mess. I'm a creator and changes need to happen, not on a physical level but a metal level.

Be a man!

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by pshea38

 

yea, no. US has a half-way relationship with England, with a borderline "awesome" military relationship.

What happened was that in the 60s, a very bad group captured the presidency. They've lost and gained power on and off since then, and as we see in this current situation, they lost the power to Obama, a different political sect. Obama's sect could be compared to federalists, whom basically just continue what the last president did. Obama in every sense of the word is a federalist. Look them up. Now the funny irony here is that the sect that I was talking about from the 60s has not only lost power of the presidency, but now they are loosing the republican party as well.

Currently a new sect is growing, this sect is known as the New Apostolic Reformation. It includes people such as Perry, Palin, and Bachmann. This election is a decisive one for the republican party. See the neocons are loosing power altogether, as this NAR replaces them. Many neocons have flat out changed their clothes and joined it. The NAR is not going to win however, because another sect, presumably led by Paul, is capturing it first. The neocons therefore are very angry cause they are pretty much failing at everything right now.

But this is all very off topic.

edit on 15-8-2011 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

This is more reasonable. All wars have psychopathic twisted men at the helm.

reply to post by drew1749


Hey,

First off, I think this is scenario is totally avoidable.

BUT, the reality is that soldier lives are worthless to their superiors and the government.
Soldiers are dehumanised-they are property not people

Think about it.

Is there any hesitation in sending platoons in to battles where victory is impossible and death is certain-some will say 'thats just war' but whats the difference between that and this?
I dont see any difference. The 'person' is still pushed and pushed and whether it be pysical or mental the end result is the same. No?

I feel so sorry for the families of these and other soldiers around the world who have been put in this situation

reply to post by pshea38


Well I suppose to make it more relevant. The political situation now is a very similar one to that of before the civil war, before a few world wars and depressions, and has happened before. Be proud that soldiers like the fallen here will stand for your rights when called to. All it takes is a Patton figure to rise. He'll rally the troops and storm the capitol. It is coming.

There's an awfully haunting film from the 30s called "Gabriel over the white house". Find it if you can. It's very relevant today.

EDIT

Huh, found it. You might enjoy watching it with me.

criticalcommons.org...

reply to post by drew1749


sincere condolences to this mans family, friends, all that knew and loved him. i'm so sorry he did not receive the help he needed. i'm sorry he was in a position that he felt he had to do things that went against his beliefs, morals and values. may God have forgiveness on his soul. may he rest in peace, for he did not find it in life.

--------------

Originally posted by BobAthome
first i would like too respond, to the statement "that God would not for give him",

He is forgiven.
He loved God,
loved his fellow man,
he could no longer go against,
what he truly believed in.
Believe in me,, said ,,Jesus,,and you will be mine.
Forgiven,,and then some.

So you can kill your fellow man, apologize and be absolved? How many people can I kill before I can't apologize the blame away?

Man what a confusing religion - full of sin, damnation, repentance and forgiveness. Guess Hell's only real if you can't say you're sorry...

Originally posted by Hawking

Originally posted by BobAthome
first i would like too respond, to the statement "that God would not for give him",

He is forgiven.
He loved God,
loved his fellow man,
he could no longer go against,
what he truly believed in.
Believe in me,, said ,,Jesus,,and you will be mine.
Forgiven,,and then some.

So you can kill your fellow man, apologize and be absolved? How many people can I kill before I can't apologize the blame away?

Man what a confusing religion - full of sin, damnation, repentance and forgiveness. Guess Hell's only real if you can't say you're sorry...

edit on 15-8-2011 by Hawking because: (no reason given)

This is a sad story.
On the one hand... he knew what he was signing up for, when he signed up; certainly giving that it was a Rangers outfit.
However, that doesn't mean he didn't have real feeling and a soul; which apparently he did.
The one thing I don't understand is.... He was afraid he would be going to hell... so he killed himself? That seems like a one way ticket.

My heart and prayers go out to his soul wherever it may be and his family.

as a man,, who has made choices ,, that ended other's lives..

i fully understand

i do NOT recommend this action.. the taking of ones OWN life..

but i understand how another might not be able to deal with Reality.. and *******

i speak with Joint Lewis staff almost on a daily basis..

my back yard neighbors.. almost literally...

some of our young men have " killed " too young......

as long as one UNDERSTANDS ,,only one thing--- murder and KILLING are TWO different things..

it helps....

the people who CANT seperate those two things,,,,,,,,, have the HARDEST time with it


IMHO

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by TupacShakur

 

Your right, I would pick any of those people over any soldier of the US of A

Ahh, the greatness of "nationalism".. govt propaganda to justify an irrational lack of empathy for our fellow man..

The 4th Reich has re-written their old "master race" mantra.. today's 1930 Germans believe they're part of a "master nation".. so superior and exceptional, other nations who dare not bow deserve nothing but a swift kick in the nuts.

We ARE master nation-ers by virtue of they fact we were born on a special part of the Earth blessed by none other than the invisible man.!!..

Apparently.. Mr or Ms deity noticed some guys had penciled borders on a map and thought it was so bless-ably awesome!!.. s/he insured the people who grow up there would be special.. smarter, more full of virtue and, in fact, so much better.. ONE of the master nations blessed beings is more valuable than an entire nation of other people!!..

Should I even bother pointing out that it is technically impossible to literally "be" "Anti-American""?.. Websters: "American" = 'citizen if the united states'.. impossible to harbor ill will towards 300 whatever million strangers... oh but its a great message board zinger, "As seen on TV", to toss around, original too.. lol..

You'd want those who ruined your life and killed your friends based on politician lies... to not just feel horrible about what they've done... but to have it haunt their soul forever.

This guy knew 1st hand about the lie inspired violence exported 6000 upon who?..so called "terrorists" who would otherwise be in the US blowing up like pop-corn?.. or farmers, tribesmen and local folks, some are just pissed-off, with a rich tradition of violent opposition to foreign occupation?

I applaud those who offer to sacrifice themselves for what they believe is defense of their flock / weaker brethren, like this dude.. but noble intentions cant erase experiences.. neither can an amalgamation of euphemistic BS bandied about by people on TV who say it's all justified.

Stanhope said it best:

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by darrman

some of our young men have " killed " too young......

as long as one UNDERSTANDS ,,only one thing--- murder and KILLING are TWO different things..

it helps....

the people who CANT seperate those two things,,,,,,,,, have the HARDEST time with it

www.merriam-webster.com...

Definition of MURDER

1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought

One could say that to the people of the occupied countries, it IS murder by it's very definition. They consider it unlawful to be killing them, and the soldiers doing it are taught to despise their enemy making it easier to kill them.

Just saying......

Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by Mahatmacoat

 

I guess you missed all of the other threads this last week, this is nothing but more of the same and hell yes I'm pissed. There really is nothing to debate, what you said was inflammatory and implied wrong doing on his part without knowing the story, typical. I think I'm done with ATS as it's merely a shell of itself taken over by left wing anti American glad handers, I bid you good day.

maybe if you lost your pro-american troops view, you wouldn't be attacked by 'left-wing anti american glad handlers'.
i'm not anti-american, i'm anti racism/classism and ignorance.

you showed a whole lot of both in this thread.

if that makes you leave ATS, fine by me.

btw you implied wrong doing on a whole NATION.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by Kryties

 

I haven't been following the discourse that closely but think going from just the above post, you deserve applause as well. Collateral damage is murder of innocent people. How is that better than what was done by terrorists to us? If indeed it was terrorists. I highly doubt it personally but, that is for another thread. ...so the applause and thumbs up to gorman is for you too. Peace bro. We could certainly use a little.

the life of one American soldier is worth more than an entire country full of Afghanis

This is a statement made by an idiot. I think I am far enough from the original poor misguided source of this inane declaration to say that without getting censured. He or she is warped in their mentality and thinking. I don't believe this person represents a majority of Americans although I must admit it does seem to represent an awful lot of them. And I do mean awful.

edit on 15-8-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

don't say things like this!!
it'll only reinforce his beliefs that he's being attacked by 'left wing anti american glad handlers'

sshhht!!

he's done with ATS because we didn't agree with his notions, so we're deemed 'anti-american'.

9 deployments? No one signs up for that so no, he didnt know what he was signing up for. In fact, being in and around the mil for my whole life and married to it about 2 decades, Ive never personally heard of 9 back to back deployments. Thats some hellish stuff and someone has some explaining to do.

We've had this discussion a million times ever since this whole crap started. Back when there were dial up BBS in the first gulf war. I tend to think that the reason we have so many damaged soldiers and so many suicides is that its no big secret to anyone with a working braincell that the wars are unjust and we arent running them. These guys dont all sign up to go kill scary middle easterners.Many, like my husband yrs ago, signed up because there were no jobs and absolutely no futures in places like nowhere Nebraska. There was no "war on terror" then and it was the only hope to feed yourself and get a career on the move. You sign up and things change in time to where youre being shot with your own weaponry you give the country youre supposedly helping. Then you wake up. Not everyone wakes up at home in the parents basement or from the comfort of domestic peace. Id wonder how some here would go about dealing with the circumstance of doing something they sincerely believed in at the time for a plethora of reasons and then so rudely awoken to the truth on a battlefield with no escape from it. No one ever considers that it seems. Sometimes that waking up to the reality of things and the shattering of your previously held beliefs messes with folks heads in their peaceful homes or here on the safe internet and message boards, can you not imagine it happening in an arena of war? To say he did something like raping or whatever and thats why he killed himself is almost too damned absurd to address.. not a real deep consideration of what happens and that many of these guys didnt sign up for kicks. They were certainly never forewarned that this arena, "enemy" and method of battle was a tad different because of the marketing of the mil here in the US and the marketing of this war on terror. Sometimes military service is all thats available in the pseudo land of plenty.

Sometimes it can be a damned rude awakening for a person with discernment,a conscience, and a heart.

So while I sympathize with him, the family, and everyone this touches... I have to say this is a very icy indictment concerning our military hierarchy that condones 9 deployments. This is not our military anymore and how many pieces of evidence do some need? People who have some intelligence here better ask why this war is so different and who runs it. Only a fool still believes that the US holds the reigns. Maybe its just too embarrassing for others to consider their own countries' involvement or condoning of it.... and their OWN culpability since daily I see some say the citizens of this country are pieces of warmongering garbage in totality because our out of control govt has allowed themselves to be a dog of war. Maybe one day they will see that they are in the same boat due to their govts collusion with ours and other govts in this. No clean hands and its going to hurt when they fall off of that pedestal they have hoisted themselves upon. The things I hear said about our citizenry due to our govt and mil involvement in this makes me see that those people still dont see whats really going on. I hope that when they are rudely awakened, if ever,they recall the judgments they passed on others in ignorance and arrogance.

Originally posted by gabby2011
reply to post by drew1749

 

more like "boyz club" type intiations... that are not part of duty.

Every unit has them in one form or another, but I don't think that's what drove him over the edge...
It was just the 'zone' he had to go into to do his work.
Maybe it was too many times in too short a duration?