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Pakistan lets China see US helicopter

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posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by JennaDarling
Good, that's called Balance of Power.

Too many times that balance has been tipped in America's war mongering side.

US is attacking inside Pakistan and probably via other economic and political ways as they usually do as bullies.

What do you expect? Ofcourse they give it to China.


edit on 14-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


What do you think China would do being the only super power?




posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by Iwinder
 


LOL.. That chopper shouldn't have been there?! I think the more intelligent statement would have been Osama bin Laden shouldn't have been there. BUT then again, I know just about as much as you do... RIGHT?! or are you living a censored life where you believe only want you want to.. So many trolls on this post. Instead of talking about America's obsession of taking over the world (sarcasm), let's get back to the discussion of what implications this could have on the middle east and relations between "allies." AHH Pakistan, how I despise thy allie.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 11:08 PM
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If a chopper lands in my back yard uninvited, I've got the right to give it to whomever I want



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 12:25 AM
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U.S. Aides Believe China Examined Stealth Copter


WASHINGTON — In the days after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, Pakistan’s intelligence service probably allowed Chinese military engineers to examine the wreckage of a stealth American helicopter that crashed during the operation, according to American officials and others familiar with the classified intelligence assessments.


Source Please read the article this came from to get a lot more information.

Hi all.... from what I have read from other reliable sources was that the only secret stuff they could get or use was the stealth tail rotor.
Have a good evening,
rbrtj

edit on 15-8-2011 by rbrtj because: added info without a new reply



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by concernedcitizen519
 


I don't trust news articles that use made up words..


edit on 15-8-2011 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by concernedcitizen519
 



That's horrible, We dont need the chinese having that technology.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:31 AM
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reply to post by JennaDarling
 


Well they spy on us and we spy on them. Tug of wars !!

But you make it sound like China deserves the chance because the US is more evil and oppressive ??

In the spy game, may the best team win cause none of the players play with rules.. But China is not more Rightious than The US. Of course fair people know thats true unless a person Wants to slander only one of the Guilty Parties !

Thx for the thread...



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:40 AM
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Originally posted by ateuprto


Pakistan has received BILLIONS of dollars in aid from the U.S. over the last decade. If we wanted to bully Pakistan, we would have dropped a 500lb bomb on top of that helicopter as soon as we left. We put our trust in the nation to keep our best interests at-heart, which was obviously a mis-placed trust.

Jenna, you really should at least educate yourself before making blind and hateful comments all the time. It has nothing to do with U.S. Americans disliking criticism, as I criticize my own nation more than you do. It has to do with doing it intelligently, which I have yet to see you do. You generally whine like a 5 year old. The most precise and scientific your responses get are usually along the lines of "U.S. is a bully, I'm glad something didn't go their way" without ever delving into the DETAILS of your hatred. In other posts you have shown no understanding of global politics, economics or conflict.

YOU ARE A TROLL.
edit on 14-8-2011 by ateuprto because: (no reason given)


Dont fool yourself. The US has NO TRUST in Pakistan or any other country.
They left that chopper there for a reason. If they left it in tact as to where it could be reverse engineered, than there is a reason behind it.
The US is a bully and does what it wants when it wants and answers to no one...not even the American people.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 01:56 AM
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Well, duh, of course the Pakistanis let the Chinese look at the wreckage. All the diplomatic posturing in existence will never convince anyone that Pakistan is America's ally, nor vice versa. 'Frenemies' might be closer, but is still no cigar to describe the backstabbing nature between the two governments.

Uncle Sam, come on, wise up. I know you must have seen this coming.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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I find it strange if this story is true that the US couldn't get to the wreckage before China did? Was China staying at the local Bed and Breakfast when it crashed? Or did the US let them get there first ?

Thx for the thread !



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by CherubBaby
I find it strange if this story is true that the US couldn't get to the wreckage before China did? Was China staying at the local Bed and Breakfast when it crashed? Or did the US let them get there first ?

Thx for the thread !


Pakistan probably sold to the highest bidder. The US is no position to outbid China...



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 03:01 AM
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okay this may be much more relevant to the topic, than to the conversation, but i have yet to hear anyone actually talk about the politics involved in our unease with pakistan. so lets go back a bit.

The US strongly backed a military dictator the people hated. Why? he did what he was told. Once democracy rolled into town, pakistani politicians desperately wanted to both be US allies and keep thier jobs, It was the US who failed here. Pakistan said help us build our infrastructure, and schools, In other words, give us something to sell to our people so that they can like you... what did we do? bomb into their soveriegn territory. See, here in the US politicains don't actually have to care about whether or not they are liked, only whether or not they are hated more than the guy on the other team. So, we epic failed in giving thier politicians any reason at all to explain liking us to thier constituents. In pakistan (because their democracy is so young) politicians actually have to please the masses to an extent

in essense, 6 months of holding off on attacks to build friendship with the people of pakistan could have avoided this situation, and indeed given us a strong ally for years to come. Proving yet again that american politicians don't have the slightest idea what they are doing, sadly this even includes getting others to like them..



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 04:54 AM
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Just yesterday I made this post on the thread about the Entire Stealth Fighter Fleet Grounded...(also in Breaking News at the moment I think).

What I was saying was that I found it interesting that there was a fresh story in the press over the past week about McAfee's investigation (there's a link to the report in my post) of hacking/espionage (Op. ref: "Shady RAT"), again linked with China, and in which a list of 'unnamed' entities were listed including "military contractors", "satellite communications companies" and "government agencies", and then in close proximity I saw the stealth fighter fleet grounded...I thought there was the possibility to be considered that the two may be linked.

The author made it clear that what they had uncovered was "unprecedented" in it's implications and the scale of a transfer of knowledge and strategic advantage...and that it's full implications may not yet be known, but there was a lot left unsaid.

Now this! So I guess possibly this helicopter analysis could ALSO be linked to the stealth fighter fleet grounding, as they mention not only the stealth skin/paint secrets but also 'technology' in the helicopter tail - which as I mentioned in my other post could include info on how the USA track and communicate with stealthy vehicles (by satellite?). Crack those AND deploy the stealth paint on your own vehicles and China may leap forward another few steps.

[Surely if your adversary knows how you track/comunicate with your 'stealth' vehicles, their hidden from radar advantage is compromised, and your adversary may find a way to track/target (essentially like GPS) them to the point they are perhaps even more vulnerable than standard jets/helicopters?*]

Certainly, it would appear to be (another) tough week for a US military in terms of knowing whether key strategic components, especially regarding stealth/stealthy vehicles, have been compromised.


PS - Of course this has been going on for years, there was the F-117 stealth fighter downed (Eastern Europe/Balkans?) some while back which the Chinese aledgedly 'visited'/'obtained samples' from, AND "Shady RAT and other Chinese associated hacking and conventional espionage has been ongoing for a decade or more from what I have read.

Taken as a whole and in the context of Chinas impressive anti-ship/carrer missile and upcoming UAV tech, impressive space program, and upcoming stealth/fighter program, the pressure certainly appears to be on.
edit on 15-8-2011 by curioustype because: para/sentance added to clarify point*

edit on 15-8-2011 by curioustype because: typo



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by CherubBaby
I find it strange if this story is true that the US couldn't get to the wreckage before China did? Was China staying at the local Bed and Breakfast when it crashed? Or did the US let them get there first ?

Thx for the thread !


Good question, and also, especially in such a small [and UNMANNED*] vehicle, and in the context that the USA would certainly have had real-time high res' day/night satellite monitoring/visuals of the site (to pick a time to do it with minimal civilian injury/risk), WHY on earth did the USA not have/find a way to vaporise, burn or salvage that machine prior to this becoming an issue?

Certainly one would hope that for instance electronics or computer elements could be secured via detonation of a small internal incendiary, and for that matter a full-on burning may have set back any paint/skin analysis I would have thought?

Or, were the USA genuinely taken by surprise at Pakistan's actions - I agree - it does make you wonder.


edit on 15-8-2011 by curioustype because: *point added



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 05:58 AM
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This was reported soon after the incident already, why are the Financial Times re-reporting this now? Wonder what gain there is



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 06:27 AM
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those chinese guys in the photo r saying 2 each other
"if we grind this thing up into pills we would have the sexual endurance of a cat in heat"

the other 1 responds " yes yes those americans sure r smart / go get the pill grinding machine!"



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by Jakes51

Originally posted by JennaDarling

Originally posted by Jakes51
reply to post by JennaDarling
 


Oh yes, the stealth fighters being grounded? The grounded stealth fighters are still in development, and not operational as of late. The F-22 and the F-35 are not ready for deployment yet. They could have been grounded for a myriad of reasons, but that does not make them any less efficient when the kinks are worked out of them. It takes time to phase in technology. Trials and tribulations are bound to arise. Still, the technology is crucial to National Defense, and force projection. Why do you think China or the Russians are going out of their way to develop it?

The technology is not infallible, and yes it can be defeated with tactics. However, the current track recorded for such technology with the current assets in the United State's arsenal has been impeccable. That is fact. If I recall only one such aircraft was lost in the Balkans. It was attributed to good tactics by the Yugoslav Army. However, with that being mentioned, their operational record speaks for itself. Look it up, and you will see. The advantage remains as strong as ever, because the Russians and the Chinese are scrambling to develop operational stealth technology. How long that will last remains to be seen, but at present the US owns the skies. That is fact.


Yes you do, but at what cost? It has bankrupted you all, it is not sustainable, it has also made you the number 1 target in the world, may aswell paint a bullseye on your backs.

China has the means to catch up, not just in military, but in every day life, they are building infrastructure around the country like nobody can, just as the middle east is pumping their oil money into their countries future, as they know it will change one day, they are planning to move to the next phase like they should once the existing way dries up whether it be oil, manufacturing cheap labour or what not.

Technology can only go so far without friends and a stable way of funding it.



How has making innovations in military technology make the US the enemy of the world? I see it otherwise. Maybe the its the US the envy of the world? Now, I think you are claiming defense spending is the sole cause of the current fiscal impairment being felt by the US? That is some of it, but not entirely. There is a long laundry lists of potential causing, and it is not one particular cause but a series. Instead of going through them here, and derailing the thread. Take gander at the numerous threads chronicling the US's apparent descent from economic dominance. As for the bulls-eye you mentioned? That has a whole myriad of reasons as well. When a nation is the lone super power it is bound to gather criticism and competition, and that is not a relative new phenomenon. It goes back to ancient times. Governments as well as empires rise and fall.

As for China having the means to catch up with the US? That goes without saying, and the writing is on wall. Most people accept that notion. They have come a long way in the past thirty years, and have become quite savvy in the arena of international politics and economics. However, China has issues of its own to contend with as well. There is a whole myriad of reasons as well, although the Chinese are not as forthright about their failures as others. A brief description of some of their potential shortfalls include, having an ever growing populace to house and feed, a burgeoning middle class to keep happy, massive environmental degradation to contend with, and other ills. No nation is without faults or vulnerabilities. China is definitely making moves to contend with the United States, and that is clear as day. Still, they are not as dominant as people claim them to be. They have issues of their own to contend with.
edit on 14-8-2011 by Jakes51 because: (no reason given)


You don't think US is the enemy of the world? Most governments hate you, and in the countries where the governments like you, the people hate you.

I can't think of a country more universally disliked and hated than America.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by ateuprto

Originally posted by JennaDarling
Good, that's called Balance of Power.

Too many times that balance has been tipped in America's war mongering side.

US is attacking inside Pakistan and probably via other economic and political ways as they usually do as bullies.

What do you expect? Ofcourse they give it to China.


edit on 14-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)


Jenna I hate picking on you, and I assure it's not just because you dislike the United States of America. It's generally because you show NO understanding of ANYTHING in just about every hate-filled post you make.

Pakistan has received BILLIONS of dollars in aid from the U.S. over the last decade. If we wanted to bully Pakistan, we would have dropped a 500lb bomb on top of that helicopter as soon as we left. We put our trust in the nation to keep our best interests at-heart, which was obviously a mis-placed trust.

Jenna, you really should at least educate yourself before making blind and hateful comments all the time. It has nothing to do with U.S. Americans disliking criticism, as I criticize my own nation more than you do. It has to do with doing it intelligently, which I have yet to see you do. You generally whine like a 5 year old. The most precise and scientific your responses get are usually along the lines of "U.S. is a bully, I'm glad something didn't go their way" without ever delving into the DETAILS of your hatred. In other posts you have shown no understanding of global politics, economics or conflict.

YOU ARE A TROLL.
edit on 14-8-2011 by ateuprto because: (no reason given)


No you haven't. You've used billions of dollars to bribe and destroy Pakistan from within, in an attempt to rule it by proxy.

Pakistan doesn't want your "aid". Nobody wants your "aid". You show you have no understanding of politics or economic warfare, either.

The people of Pakistan do not want your "help". Why give your "aid" to someone not asking for it?

Americans still too ignorant to differentiate between political sabotage, economic warfare and charity.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by kimish
reply to post by Iwinder
 


The U.S. has more sway than people are giving them credit for. The U.S. technology is vastly superior than all other nations. I'm not going to name specifics but doesn't the U.S. use the most sophisticated fighter planes (correct me if i'm wrong as I'm not %100 positive)? And we now have jets that can take those out? I mean 1 f35? has the capability to take out 5 f16's. I was told by some friends in the Armed services, as I have also read online from various sources, that if the general public had knowledge of the U.S. military technology we wouldn't believe it. It would be like something out of a Science Fiction film. Just saying.

We may be the bullies but who else provides more aid?


Nobody wants your "aid".

You'd swear ATS was the Fox News forum with how sheepish you people are. You believe your government wholeheartedly when they wheel out the "aid" propaganda. Even though this aid destroys economic infrastructure and makes most nations slaves to the American government and American corporations - forcing most the aid 'beneficaries' into slave like wage-labor and a life without freedom or hope.

Yeah, no thanks - nobody wants your aid.



posted on Aug, 15 2011 @ 07:57 AM
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Originally posted by tooo many pills
We should move all of our aid and Chinese jobs to India. Let's see what Pakistan and China do then.

"Get in tha choppa!"


edit on 14-8-2011 by tooo many pills because: (no reason given)


The people of Pakistan would probably dance in the streets with joy, I'd imagine.

A few corrupt politicians, American pawns at best, wouldn't be best happy... But the people would be over the moon.

Would be the best thing America could do for Pakistani Democracy.



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