Could Hitler Have Escaped in a Zeppelin(and travelled to the Moon)

reply to post by Dr Expired


Explantion: I agree...

Zeppelin [wiki]



The multiple gas cells reduce the potential for complete deflation of the zeppelin!

LZ 127 Graf Zeppelin [wiki]

Generally the Graf Zeppelin had a usable payload capacity of 15,000 kilos (33,000 lbs) for a 10,000 km (6,200 mile) flight

V-2 (rocket) [wiki]

Specifications
Weight 12,500 kg (28,000 lb)
Length 14 m (45 ft 11 in)
Diameter 1.65 m (5 ft 5 in)

Note we will be replacing the ...

Warhead 980 kg (2,200 lb) Amatol

... with MORE fuel and oxidizer!

Propellant 3,810 kg (8,400 lb) of 75% ethanol and 25% water + 4,910 kg (10,800 lb) of liquid oxygen
Operational [this is the base fuel and oxidizer load and we by replacing the warhead with more fuel and oxidizer will achieve a greater range]
range 320 km (200 mi) [thats the minimum range]
Flight altitude 88 km (55 mi) maximum altitude on long range trajectory, 206 km (128 mi) maximum altitude if launched vertically.
Speed maximum:
1,600 m/s (5,200 ft/s)
5,760 km/h (3,580 mph)
at impact:

800 m/s (2,600 ft/s)
2,880 km/h (1,790 mph)
Guidance
system Gyroscopes to determine direction
Müller-type pendulous gyroscopic accelerometer for engine cutoff on most production rockets (10% of the Mittelwerk rockets used a guide beam for cutoff.)

Now we loose the small mass of the V-2 rockets wings etc and bolt it directly to the bottom of the zeppelin gondala.

It might only achieve 1/10th [10%] of its original maximum distance due to the massive load of the zeppelin [which must be compensated for in our guestimates to remain even somewhat credible ] BUT that is still 20 to 30 km closer to the moon than before!

Personal Disclosure: The zeppelin can easy take the mass of the V-2 rocket booster and still have enuff cargo cargo limit left for both Adolph and Eva! I hope this helps rerail the thread in a scientific manner!

My wife still doesn't think ANYONE has made it to the moon. (yeah, crazy CT'er! )
But in tribute to this thread I give you this. . . .

reply to post by Jim Scott

Glad to be of service, but you know farce can contain truth?
A lot of Mel Brooks comedy was full of irony that came across as funny, because people assumed it was exaggeration of the truth. not suggesting the OPhas written anything farcical though

Originally posted by ELahrairah
reply to post by Wertdagf

 

Yes project paper clip funneled the top secret nazi technology of cat farts into
the military industrial complex who knows how far this technology has gone in the last 70 years.
perhaps the cat fart warp drive

I was wondering how you got here so quickly!! Hmmm,,,
And You seem to know alot about the CaFaWaDR (cat fart warp drive). And I
just noticed your avatar. I personally don't believe in co-incidence, and shall be keeping
a close eye on you, Mr. Puss(y)-in-Boots!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Explanation: It just occured to me to connect the zeppelins LONG RANGE fuel tanks to the V-2 Rocket!

Personal Disclosure: WOOT! Things just got funky!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Even thoug you might are playing my thread as a joke I star you in earnestness for posting such a brilliant reply in such a short space of time.



I do not pretend to be as scientifically clever as many ATS members , i just operate on Hunches and insight.

Sometimes they let me down but not always.
I think this thread may be gathering support? in the scientific club on ATS?

reply to post by Dr Expired


Explanation: Ok ... Here is a more refined version bringing in more facts!

Airships: Present-day Research [wiki]

Many companies are working on high-altitude airships.[clarification needed]

In 1999 Lindstrand Technologies, in partnership with Daimler Chrysler Aerospace of Germany, was awarded a design contract by the European Space Agency (ESA) to develop a High Altitude Long Endurance airship for possible use in the telecommunications market.[74] As a result of this, Per Lindstrand was awarded the German-based Körber Prize for engineering excellence. These stratospheric long endurance platforms inhabit the calm upper atmosphere at usually 21 km (69,000 ft) where airspace is uncontrolled, in a geo-synchronous position and remain in the same place by motoring into the prevailing wind.[citation needed][clarification needed] About 60 and 90 m (295 ft) long, they are intended to stay up for a period of three to five years without maintenance. Applications include cellular phone (S-UMTS) base station, passenger information system, digital broadcast, remote monitoring, metropolitan area network and emergency response network.[citation needed]

E-Green Technologies, Inc., is developing a high-altitude version of their spherically and bullet shaped airships. JP Aerospace has discussed its long-range plans that include not only high altitude communications and sensor applications but also an "orbital airship" capable of lifting cargo into low Earth orbit with a marginal transportation cost of $1 per short ton per mile of altitude (0.70 US$/t·km)

The Graf Zeppelin couldn't reach those heights and was restricted to about 350m max ceiling.

But since I have found that they could have a maximum carry including fuel of ...

General characteristics

Crew: 40
Capacity: 20 passengers
Length: 236.53 m (776 ft 0 in)
Diameter: 30.48 m (100 ft 0 in)
Volume: 105,000 m3 (3,707,550 ft3)
Useful lift: 60,000 kg (132,000 lb)
Powerplant: 5 × Maybach engines, 410 kW (550 hp) each
Performance

Maximum speed: 128 km/h (80 mph)

... 60 metric tons ...

minus 12.5 tons for V-2 rocket booster...

minus 2.5 tons [1.25tons each] of Hitler+Eva+personal belongings etc.

minus 5 tons of gas cell reinforcement so as to be able to achieve 20+km altitude.

minus 5 tons of regular fuel.

minus 35 tons of fuel+oxidizer for V-2 rocket booster [not including what it came with originally]

= 60 tons

Personal Disclosure: I'm quite sure if the over pressure problems can be solved with pre ww2 technology etc that they could easily of achieved Low Earth Orbit in a ZEPPELIN!

P.S. Is there any pre ww2 uboat technology that anybody can think of that might be appropriately used in this setting to help Hitler and Eva become the 1st nazinauts into space?

reply to post by Dr Expired


My dear Doctor. I recall some of the old sic/fi movies and the imaginations of those writers as to how a flight might be made. The old From the Earth to the Moon for instance. Shooting a capsule type bullet out of a huge cannon. Did you ever see that one? Or was it a bullet like capsule. Either way, fun thread.

So ...all ze pieces are coming together.
"Nazinauts"?....sounds like a sixties pop band.(The Nazi nauts play Vegas)
Led Zepplin eat your heart out.
But thanks for another informative post , Iam learning my hunch was right.
The actual science you espouse does Bazzoka me though.
But it reads good.

reply to post by Dr Expired


Explanation: Further improvements...

Following successes at Kummersdorf with the first two Aggregate series rockets, Wernher von Braun and Walter Riedel began thinking of a much larger rocket in the summer of 1936, based on a projected 25-metric-ton-thrust engine.

At launch the A-4 propelled itself for up to 65 seconds on its own power, and a program motor controlled the pitch to the specified angle at engine shutdown, from which the rocket continued on a free-fall (ballistic) trajectory. The rocket reached a height of 80 km (50 mi) after shutting off the engine.

So we have aprox 9 tons of fuel+oxidizer PLUS another 1 ton worth of fuel+oxidizer [warhead replacement] in the rocket itself for total of 10 tons of combined fuel+oxidizer AND we have another 35 tons worth of combined fuel+oxidizer for a total of 45 tons of rocket fuel+oxidizer ... which would give a total burn time of 5x normal or about 5.5mins [330seconds] giving 25tons of thrust [because the zeppelin is carrying all of the lifting load initially the extra thrust is at full power] every second to the Lunazippelin!

Personal Disclosure: The only issue I see aside from environmental integrity of the gondola and also the pressure issues to do with the gas cells is areodynamic forces whilst rocket thrusting into space and those kind of physics and maths is a bit beyond my level so I will leave the rocketry issues there as they are and I encourage those who have the passion for this subject to take what I have supplied and run with it as best they can. I shall be now focusing on more mundane things like working out if we can burn the hydrogen in the gas cells as well using the V-2 rocket booster system and get even more performance in altitude once it has already reached outer space, because once free of the majority of earths gravity it doesnt take to much to break free and head to the moon.

Edit P.S. Bouyancy once in space is a moot point!

Originally posted by BrianC
reply to post by Dr Expired

 

I believe mentioning the Holocaust in my post was completely appropriate. Every single person on here bashing the thread is doing so because of American propaganda such as the Holocaust, if they can be convinced the Holocaust is simply propaganda then they can embrace your thoughts fully.

That would be assumimg that everyone who can think is wrong in regards to what Hitler did. It must be a lonely place to belong to such a minority considering all the photos and news reel and interviews with Nazi guards. Unless of course the propaganda industry of the 40's could photo shop so well and the software we use today had been sitting in area 51 since that time and was only released to be sold to the public after elvis became director of area 51.

The only problem is a Zeppelin floats in air because it is lighter than the air.

The higher you go, the thinner the air gets, so at some point, the Zeppelin would be heavier than the surrounding air. It would not be able to gain any more altitude at this point.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Explanation: Ok I have found out the entire fully loaded Graf Zepplin had a total mass between 95 and 100 tons and so I will err oin the side of caution and use 100 metric tons fully loaded.

Graf Zeppelin: size + speed [airships.net]

According to Harold Dick, LZ-127 had a dead-weight of approx. 150,000 lbs and total lift of approx. 210,000 lbs, for a useful lift of approx. 60,000 lbs.

With 25 metric tons of thrust per second it would take 4 to5 seconds to reach a top speed [ignoring wind resistance for the moment becuase Im not good at that .. yet ] of MACH 5 [1600m/s].

So after 4 seconds the vehical is hauling 1600m/s for the next 325seconds ... thats 520km in dead lift straight up right there!

I also found out the following ...

Some flights were made using only Blau gas carried in the dozen power gas cells which had a total capacity of up to up to 30,000 m3 (1,059,440 cu/ft) and could power the airship at cruising speed for up to 100 hours. The Graf was able to cruise for 67 hours using gasoline alone, and 118 hours when fully fueled with both propellants.

Personal Disclosure: I think its very possible now and my only main concern is wind resistance, which would obviously lessen with greater altitude and so if it can be initially overcome via some technical strengthening without overly compromising cargo carry mass etc. then Adolph and Eva have a very good chance of making it to Low Earth Orbit [hereafter aka L.E.O. ] and beyond!

P.S. OL also notes that very high up the atmosphere actually seperates into different layers of Oxygen, Nitrogen and Hydrogen due to different atomic masses and cruising or gliding through these zones for short durations may allow one to refuel with both oxygen and hydrogen while up in L.E.O.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by Stella Lotus

 

All things are possible even if it is only in ones imagination?
They exist, anyone reading the OP or your quoted reply , now has an image of Hitler and braun rising above Berlin on a moonlit night as berlin burned below.
So it exists, and it also exists that Hitler travelled to the moon in a zeppellin?
I can see the propellor spinning reflecting starlight.

Are you writing a terrible episode of Doctor Who?

Adolf and the Moon Zepplins.

Lol reminds me of a BBC show, The First Men in the Moon..

Are you sure he didnt go to Mars?

reply to post by BrianC


"And so Hitler moved to Kenya, hoping to blend in with the rest of the population"

Honestly that video made my day, complete BS though but thanks for the laughs.

The truth is much more mundane, really. My father told me that during WWII (he was an ambulance driver), there was a daily radio broadcast from Axis Sally, and every broadcast included a message from Hitler to the the Allied troops - disinformation, I suppose. The important thing is that after the Battle of the Bulge, these messages from Hitler were no longer broadcast, and all the GI's my father knew were of the opinion (they were not stupid) is that it must have meant that Hitler had left Germany. But how? It is a little known fact that commercial flights from Berlin to Spain continued until the spring of 1945, and one researcher did find his name on a flight manifest late in the war. It is not too difficult to guess that he took a U-boat from Spain to South America. It's just a matter of connecting the dots.

It's really a lot more sensible than Antarctica, the Hollow Earth, or Nazi Moon Bases, don't you think?

Here is a relevant article:

Hitler Died In 1960
Trans-Andean Journalist
Posits Bold Hypothesis In Book
From Scott Corrales
7-13-4

"Hitler Died In Argentina In 1960"
-- Abel Basti, author of 'Bariloche Nazi':

Basti is now at work on a second book, where he says he will present proof of the Führer's presence in Argentina.

Claims the Führer escaped Germany by submarine and spent his last days
in Bariloche with Eva Braun.

By Diego Zúñiga Contreras
From Las Ultimas Noticias (Santiago de Chile)
July 11, 2004

On July 28, 1945, two former crewmen of the Admiral Graf Spee battleship welcomed--under the greatest secrecy--two submarines from Europe. The operation would repeat itself. One of those submarines conveyed Adolf Hitler.
This is the main thesis of the book Bariloche Nazi. Sitios históricos relacionados al nacionalsocialismo (Nazi Bariloche: Historic Sites Related to National Socialism) from Argentinean journalist Abel Basti. The text, published in February, is a tour guide to visit the sites inhabited by German leaders in the Trans-Andean south, and challenges the official story about the Fuhrer committing suicide in his bunker on April 30, 1945.

Basti, who left Buenos Aires in 1978 to work as a forest ranger in Bariloche, looked into the subject when he covered the extradition to Italy of Nazi captain Erich Priebke in 1995.
"He was detained in Bariloche. I wasn't into the nazi subject, but due to work reasons it was necessary to satisfy the need for information. From that moment onward I delved into certain avenues of research," says the author.

-When do traces of Hitler's presence in southern Argentina emerge?

-Based on certain eyewitness accounts, that are complemented with historic revisionism, since the absence of evidence regarding the suicide is notorious. And if Hitler didn't kill himself and escaped, what he obtained in Argentina is valuable.
-What other proof have you found?

-Eyewitness accounts from qualified people who were with Hitler in Argentina and who agree with FBI, British Intelligence, and Argentinean Navy documents discussing the presence of Nazi subs in the South Atlantic in July and August 1945. Furthermore, there is more information coming to light that contradicts the alleged suicide.

-Well, there's always been a sort of "cloud" around the subject.
-Yes, mainly because the proof needed to substantiate a death isn't thre. Furthermore, the first official reports talk of an escape. In other words, when the Red Army entered the bunker, Stalin asked for a confirmation of Hitler's death and the general in charge says he can't, because there is no body. Even Germany declared [Hitler] dead in 1955 after presuming him dead.

-Your book is focused on the alleged arrival of submarines in Patagonia. When did they arrive?

-What I've investigated, along with contributions from Europe, is that it was a convoy evacuating the Nazi high command, consisting of at least 10 submersibles with 60 persons aboard each.
Sailors' Confessions

Another clue that in Basti's opinion sheds light on the arrival of the Nazis in Argentina are the accounts of two sailors who participated in their reception: "In 1950, two sailors from the Graf Spee, a German vessel sunk by its own crew on the River Plate, said that they received at least two submarines in Patagonia on July 28, 1945

-How did that happen?

-They say that they slept in a Patagonian ranch and in the early morning hours were on hand to recieve the submarines. They brought trucks and loaded baggage and people onto them. One reseacher spoke with the sailors (who are now dead) and they confirmed the story. On the other hand, we have the proof of the evacuation and on the other, the discovery of the sunken subs."
-Finding them would be even better confirmation...

-They've been detected through magnetometers. The problem is that there is a lot of sand covering them.

Translation (c) 2004. S. Corrales, IHU. Special thanks to Liliana Nuñez O.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
reply to post by Helious

 

Not neccessarily, a Zeppelin spacecraft is not that far fetched.
Instead of blasting through the zone that seperates Earth from space, the Zeppelin may have simply floated through it, no friction t,( heat resistant material) was used to make the Zeps balloon.
It was puncture proof (lessons had been learned).

Oh COME ON!:

"Mein Gott!" Surely this is one for "jokes"(?)
Anybody passing a third grade science class can see the problems with a zeppelin traveling to the moon."
Does a balloon "float in a vacuum?
(seriously?)

Of course not.

A balloon floats just like a boat floats on water. I.E displacing the fluid(air) with a sufficient volume of a lighter substance ( helium hydrogen or hot air). As the air becomes more rarified at higher altitude you get less bouyancy for your displacement.Even balloons have a "ceiling".

God I need to just ban myself and break my habit of just "dropping by": (it would 'save me the "wear and tear" of my jaw dropping and hitting the keyboard all the time).

Adolph Hitler is dead,thank God.The holocaust HAPPENED,my great uncle Jack helped liberate Bergen Belsen.The Nazi thing was-is a satanic homosexual conspiracy to destroy all life.Its about as romantic as a funeral.BAHGOOFUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OP

Could Hitler Have Escaped in a Zeppelin(and travelled to the Moon)

Yes he did with the Cavorite painted zeppelin.