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Something is bugging me about the existence of the "Soul"?

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posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 


In your own reality time continued - there was nothing in your reality when you were asleep in others reality, in your reality you closed your eyes for an infinitle fraction of time before they re-opened in the future.
edit on 14-8-2011 by SystemResistor because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 02:50 PM
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Since the soul projects the illusion of this existence, it would continue. This existence would become a still picture instead of a movie. This is just my opinion. That and five dollars will buy you a cup of coffee.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:32 PM
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The soul is bound to the body through an organic matrix, and complete disconnect from the organic host body does not occur if the organic structure exists, alive or not. This is typically accomplished through complete natural decomposition of the body. Bodies that are preserved or entombed and do not decompose can tend to trap the soul.

or so I heard...



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
I've always questioned whether or not we have a soul. I often times lay in bed and ponder this until the alarm clock goes off.

Last night I stumbled upon a senario where I truly questioned its existence. OKay so bear with me a moment and really try to look at this from every angle. So I was lying there thinking about Cryonics and how it might be possible to be frozen until a later date, when medical advancements, would make it possible to live forever. I'm not gonna go into the living forever bit, that's for another time.

Now lets say you're frozen in a suspended state of animation, where you are not dead, but technically not alive either. Here's where I question the souls existence! Since you're not technically dead, then does the soul just stay put inside your body until it's revived at a later date? Since you're not technically alive, is the soul free to move about where it will, until it's sucked back into your body when your revived?

Hrmmmmm......

Then you have consciousness which supposedly originates in the brain. Since you're frozen and there is nothing functioning inside you, then consciousness would not exist, therefore, you technically do not exist.

Anyway, I'm steering away from the topic but you get what I'm saying, soul = consciousness and vise versa.

Does this make any sense or just to me?


It does. The same questions that go unanswered about the soul go unanswered about consciousness.

Like where does it come from... for one.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 07:52 PM
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some years ago I watched films about dieing then coming back.
( die in a accident and come back. or get frozen and come back)
(and clones, they think they can not have a soul!)
in the film the person has no soul and is evil.
this seems like a primitive belief.
some belive that the soul is out side the bodie.
and is link't to the body by a cord.
some thing like astral travel?



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:53 AM
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I've never thought about this haha. Maybe it's a little like astral projection, or sleeping? I have no clue.

on second thought, I remember watching a show talking about how this girl was basically frozen in ice and doctors thought she was dead but then she thawed out and bam, she was perfectly normal haha. Nothing like Frankenstein.
edit on 16-8-2011 by ThirdMind because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
Since you're not technically alive, is the soul free to move about where it will, until it's sucked back into your body when your revived?


I think out-of-body-experiences can answer this question. Now since we don't have the ability to freeze the Human body yet, I will use Anesthesia Awareness as a guideline.



She told me that she awoke during her nose operation. She saw her body as it lay upon the operating table, as if she was standing outside her body in a position at the right-hand side of the foot of the operating table. She realized it was she who lay upon the operating table, but felt no alarm or consternation upon realizing that she was apparently standing outside her body. She saw the surgeon operating upon her nose, but felt neither the operation, nor any pain from the operation. She saw the assistant of the surgeon. She saw the anesthetic assistant sitting next to the anesthetic machine located at the left-hand side of her body. And she remarked that she could not see the faces of any of these people. (The image below is a photographic montage of the situation as she described it in the operating theatre where her out of body experience occurred. The operation being performed was the same as hers, as were the positions of anesthetic assistant, surgeon, and theater nurse. Operating table, anesthetic machine, and draping were also the same, as well as in the same positions, as during her out of body experience.)


www.anesthesiaweb.org...

It would seem that some form of soul is able to survive without the body or brain. Just look at NDE's.

ALS



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:03 PM
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The soul was invented by the Greeks to (basically) explain the phenomenon of self observation. Since then, its properties have been reinvented again and again - as evident even on this one thread.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Old Testament doesn't mention the soul (there was no such thing for any of those ancient Sumerian knock-offs), and the New Testament - as most theologians will tell you - is based on the Greek mystery religions that were really popular during that specific stretch of several hundred years in that part of the world. Christianity (the big winner in the end) being based off the Hebrew version of the god-man myth.

There is no such beast as the soul. You can cob together all the theories you want - and there have been plenty that have been cobbed together over the last 2,000 years or better - but you'll never be able to satisfy the logical requirements of physical reality with this soul thingy as the foundation of human existence. That cryogenics issue notwithstanding, the problems that the concept of the soul has initiated have far outweighed the problems that it addressed, since becoming the go-to quick answer for everything from self-analysis to why some people seem to be born *ssholes.

The soul is a 2,000 yr old philosophical punt. There are much better theories for why things are as they are than that old saw, but people just hate having to change their view on stuff once they've finally graduated high school and set their learning brain on the shelf for good. Old dog, new tricks, and all that.



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 05:24 PM
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We do not have a soul, nor are we a soul, but we are souled.
What inspires you, what moves you, that is being souled.
It is our psyche, and yes if my consciousness is filled with a loving buddhism, i'm inspired by that.
souled is the fire of life within us, and life is action, it sets us in motion.
I've seen many stories about the soul being the immortal zelf, but to me this is false.
We regenerate, we do not re-incarnate.
Incarnation Could be the fulfillment of the spirit, the dead of the 'me' that fills the emptyness with possesion or having a position in our society.

But thats how i see it

edit on 16-8-2011 by earthling42 because: write error

edit on 16-8-2011 by earthling42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2011 @ 07:48 PM
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I can't see being an athiest, it's like being pissed at life for being here. It's true, we don't know that life exists beyond this, but we also don't know that it doesn't. But that's just me, I do believe there is more to this life than what we know.

So anyway back to being frozen in time ha. Here's why I don't think anesthesia is anything like being frozen for preservation. It's simple, during anesthesia your body is still being fed oxygen, blood is still circulating, which is still feeding the brain, therefore, we are technically still alive.

Life will always remain an unsolved mystery.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 


Here is a fun artical to read. the guys name was Dr. MacDougall and was done back in 1908. His hypothesis was that the soul had mass, based on all matter having mass, and when the soul departed the body, so did this mass. He would weigh people moments before they died and keep them on the scale as they died. within minutes apon death the six patients he tested would weigh on average 21 grams less.

Note he did the same experement on dogs and there was no weight loss after death. his conclution was only humans have souls just as the good book says


the experement has yet to be recreated or disproven.

en.wikipedia.org...(doctor)
edit on 29-9-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

edit on 29-9-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 06:37 PM
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Thanks for the post as this is something I've been aiming to get off my chest for a bit. Most of my family are fundamentalist and don't like getting into mental chess over such subjects. My question would be the exact opposite of yours. In that, when is a soul assigned to the newborn? Is it given? Inherited? What is the source? If the parents are the source and a tiny peace of both parents souls are give to this infant for it to foster and grow are not the parents in that essence god? (run on I'm sure). I had a crazy thought the other day and it may be in left field. What are your thoughts of the Soul being a/an energy source for the "divine". Making this whole place a big farm of souls. Anyhow back to topic. If you where in a suspended state and your soul not being harvested. It should remain in tact unless there is a unknown shelf life immune to such suspension.



posted on Sep, 29 2011 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by Nineofzero
 


read what i posted above your post. that will get you thinking



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 09:16 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


OMG yes I'm glad you posted this! I have read this many times and seen many shows on it as well. This is rather intriging and I wish someone would try to duplicate this today but unfortunately, morally it would be frowned upon.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


Yes I have read about the weighing of the human soul. Still the question remains, When does one develop this "Burden" of weight. If we go from the good book would it be the age of reason?



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 11:27 PM
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I have thought of the same exact scenario. Until sometime ago I was decided on getting my butt frozen, the prospect of waking in a new body sometime in the future, with a big fat bank account and spaceships readily available, was enough to convince me. But after dwelling ATS, spiritual quests and a lot of reading, I came to the conclusion that being frozen would be hell. I do belie in the soul, and I think the evidence is out there, 90% of religious or spiritual teachings imply that we are here for several reasons, main one may it be to accept the mortality of the flesh and embrace the eternity of the soul. By getting frozen you are renouncing the possibility of advancing forward to whatever realm and tying your spiritual-ankle to a chain ball. After realizing this fact, im pretty certain i would be miserable as hell if the revived me after spending 200 years wandering the earth like a lost soul.



posted on Sep, 30 2011 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by NorEaster
The soul was invented by the Greeks to (basically) explain the phenomenon of self observation. Since then, its properties have been reinvented again and again - as evident even on this one thread.

en.wikipedia.org...

The Old Testament doesn't mention the soul (there was no such thing for any of those ancient Sumerian knock-offs), and the New Testament - as most theologians will tell you - is based on the Greek mystery religions that were really popular during that specific stretch of several hundred years in that part of the world. Christianity (the big winner in the end) being based off the Hebrew version of the god-man myth.

There is no such beast as the soul. You can cob together all the theories you want - and there have been plenty that have been cobbed together over the last 2,000 years or better - but you'll never be able to satisfy the logical requirements of physical reality with this soul thingy as the foundation of human existence. That cryogenics issue notwithstanding, the problems that the concept of the soul has initiated have far outweighed the problems that it addressed, since becoming the go-to quick answer for everything from self-analysis to why some people seem to be born *ssholes.

The soul is a 2,000 yr old philosophical punt. There are much better theories for why things are as they are than that old saw, but people just hate having to change their view on stuff once they've finally graduated high school and set their learning brain on the shelf for good. Old dog, new tricks, and all that.


I was going to post something similar.

You did a much better job then I would have.


People in this thread need to read your post.



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by chrismicha77
I've always questioned whether or not we have a soul. I often times lay in bed and ponder this until the alarm clock goes off.



Why do you question whether we have a soul? Surely the question should be "do I have a soul?' Then a good question to ask oneself might be: "Why do I want to know whether a soul exists or not." What I am alluding to is if we ask a question such as "why are people poor?" We investigate the question in a particular way quite differently to the way we might do if we asked, "Why am I poor?" The poverty of the poor and the poverty of one's own self is quite different, although in some way the individual poverty is part of the greater pool of poverty, but that is no consolation when hunger is gnawing at your belly and you are cold and damp. We don't then philosophize upon poverty. The poverty in fact drives you into direct activity - the situation becomes increasingly a matter of life and death.

The question is often stated, "Do I have a soul?" If one wants to investigate this question correctly then one must start out with the correct first steps. It would be more correct to say that you are the possession of the soul rather than the other way around. The soul is the final essence of self remaining after a process of distillation.

You cannot determine whether there is, or there isn't a soul in your present condition. The reason being the dominance of the dream state over your perception. When you are fast asleep and dreaming can you actually say where "you" are in that dream? What you are is subject to a flux-like condition. Sometimes you are a witness, sometimes an actor, sometimes lucid but more often than not, existing in a drugged form of awareness.

The existence or non-existence of the soul is a life or death question because what is really being asked is, "Am I more than just a biological machine that slowly dies over a period of 70-80 years?"

When one's own very life is at stake, then every effort and resource at one's disposal should be thrown into the search.

To ask: "Do I have a soul" kind of declares that: "I am aware what the possessor is but I am just not sure what he possesses." But I believe that most people wrongly assume the nature of their identity and then inquire what that identity may or may not possess in addition to its assumed reality.

To what degree, can our identity be reduced? You can lose a hand and then you would be Mr X who has lost a hand. This "cutting" process can be repeated until only the fundamental organs remain for the life of the individual to continue. This might be the whole brain which is suspended in a liquid of some sort which is supplied with blood through a circulation machine. All that has been lost really are the organs required for activity and expression in an external world. But soon the brain will create its own world as it does every time a person sleeps and dreams.

If these circumstances of dreams and sleep continued for a prolonged period, how would you be able to find your self? What is the self and what is not the self? When would the search begin?

The key to the soul is hidden in the process of dreaming i.e understanding dreaming. And it appears that all the important things are discovered by an indirect course.



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 02:10 AM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 

You've gotten a bunch of answers already, and I haven't read them all yet.

But basically, you have to explore the various "soul" models and see which seems to make the most sense to you. It's not a cut-and-dried subject like physics. Souls can do weird things.

1) Who's in charge?

Important question. Now, I use the remotely-controlled robot model. And in that model, the remote controller is supposed to have full control of the robot. But it's possible that the control channel could be interfered with or it could break down entirely. Then another control point might be able to weasel in and take over. Or the robot might be on its own, without any external controller to guide it at all. From the body's (robot's) point of view, he "has" a controller (soul). But from the soul's point of view he has a robot (body). Which point of view would you prefer to take?

If you decide "the brain's in charge" or "the soul is in charge" you will get a workable model in some situations but not in others. So this is something to consider carefully.

2) How free does the soul feel?

Does the remote controller feel like he can just run out and take a break whenever he feels like it, and leave the body to its own devices? In most people, no. You get the controller (soul) on the job all the time trying to maintain good control. At night when he puts the body to sleep he might feel freer to leave. If the body got frozen, he might get confused. Is this body worth hanging around protecting or not? He might decide to abandon it.

3) How deep does the attachment to the body go?

There is a lot of debate about this. Some people think that when the spirit leaves the body it takes a "light body" or "astral body" with it that looks a lot like the human body. But this is placing a lot of importance on just one lifetime. There might be another lifetime that the being considers much more important. Or there might not be any. I've seen no real evidence for "light bodies" other than in visions projected at us by beings who want us to believe in them.

Some people see a "silver cord" attached to their body when they go exterior during an NDE or something. But that doesn't seem to be consistent. There are a lot of people who can "move away" from the body with no big problem, but not necessarily far away.

So this might be a big variable from being to being, which means that there might not be any "right" answer to your question.



posted on Oct, 1 2011 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by chrismicha77
 

The ancients perceived man to be a tripartite being Body Soul Spirit.

Body = that which you feed and bath
Soul = the conscious thinking emotional person
Spirit = the function of man that can know the divine

Spirit is often confuse with soul or thought to be the same.



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