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Quick question for UK members, Who will be the UK's Ron Paul ?

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posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by JennaDarling
 


The House of Lords doesn't have a single hereditary Peer, so it isn't anything to do with the aristocracy.

And in a few years time, they will be elected members. Keep up to date on parliamentary business and you'd know this.




posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 05:53 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by JennaDarling
 


The fact you have to ask shows you don't fully understand how Parliament is supposed to work.

MP's are freely able to cross the floor, as much as they like, without fear of being reprimanded. It is merely showing their support the Government.

However, if they did this while a member of a party, which is outside the Parliamentary system, they would have the whip removed and the support of the party would be lost, compromising their selection at the next election. Add that to the fact that if they then stood at the next election as an independant, even if they were the best MP that area had ever, people would then vote in their parties new candidate because people vote along party lines, contrary to how it supposed to be!

The party system is wholly seperate from parliament. Consider it like a parasite that has take over the host.
As for the system in NI, that was put in place because if they didn't then the Unionists would run the show, like they did before in the last home rule scenario and the Republicans would get pissy about when they realise they don't have as much support, leading to a collapse of the pease process. That is why they are all made to work together and share power as it is the only way to keep the Republican minority from throwing a fit and killing people.


yes the party system is seperate from parliament, but sure the party has a LOT of control over an MP, go ask any MP.

peace process, come on, we all know the MLA's in Northern Ireland have paramilitary connections and still use it.
Go talk to people in Northern Ireland affected. Don't delude yourself that there is peace, unless peace means "no bombs in london". Companies flooding to Northern Ireland does not mean pace, all that means is they get large tax breaks as an encouragement.

As for unionists controlling the show, dont delude yourself again, they cannot agree on the colour of brown.

When crunch time comes everybody turns to their own corners, Sinn Fein for the bitter, SDLP for the middle class, DUP for the bitter, and UUP for the middle class, all the du hont system did was allow smaller parties like PUP get more seats. Always has been always will be, didnt matter what system was in place, fact is those 4 parties always got the votes, nothing changed vote corner wise.

As for devolution, well they always had their own bylaws. they are still controlled by the Treasury budget.

Northern Ireland is the Banana republic of Europe.

Either way , Westminster has to change, or probably it wont matter, it is all a facade anyway..


edit on 13-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by JennaDarling
 


The House of Lords doesn't have a single hereditary Peer, so it isn't anything to do with the aristocracy.

And in a few years time, they will be elected members. Keep up to date on parliamentary business and you'd know this.


Yes effectively you are right, but currently there are 92 elected(?) Hereditary Peers.

Bishops still sit in the House, along with the cronies that have been given the title of Lord/Lady.

It's BS of the highest order imo.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by JennaDarling
yes the party system is seperate from parliament, but sure the party has a LOT of control over an MP, go ask any MP.


Yup and that is pretty much what I have been saying. If people didn't vote along party lines and voted for the best candidate, not the candiate of the party they have always voted for, then Parliament would work better.


Originally posted by JennaDarling
peace process, come on, we all know the MLA's in Northern Ireland have paramilitary connections and still use it.
Go talk to people in Northern Ireland affected. Don't delude yourself that there is peace, unless peace means "no bombs in london". Companies flooding to Northern Ireland does not mean pace, all that means is they get large tax breaks as an encouragement.


I've had the pleasure of actually living in Belfast and it is damned site better these days than the 80's when I lived there. Regardless fo you're opinion, the rest of the country regards the situation now as a whole lot better than before. That said, given the way you have talked before, I get the impression you're of a republican bent so would have a skewed view of things.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Cobaltic1978
 


Yep, which is why it is being reformed. In fact reform has been a long process because, lets face it, Turkeys won't vote for Christmas and all legislation has to go through the Lords. The last time the Herditary peers were turfed out, it had to be forced through via the Parliament Act.

Those given the title of "Lord or Lady", in theory, are done so because their expertise and expereience warrants them being elevated. In reality, it's used by the Parties to pad out the upper house with their chums.

Once they are elected, this will cease to be. It is a long road though.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by JennaDarling
yes the party system is seperate from parliament, but sure the party has a LOT of control over an MP, go ask any MP.


Yup and that is pretty much what I have been saying. If people didn't vote along party lines and voted for the best candidate, not the candiate of the party they have always voted for, then Parliament would work better.


Originally posted by JennaDarling
peace process, come on, we all know the MLA's in Northern Ireland have paramilitary connections and still use it.
Go talk to people in Northern Ireland affected. Don't delude yourself that there is peace, unless peace means "no bombs in london". Companies flooding to Northern Ireland does not mean pace, all that means is they get large tax breaks as an encouragement.


I've had the pleasure of actually living in Belfast and it is damned site better these days than the 80's when I lived there. Regardless fo you're opinion, the rest of the country regards the situation now as a whole lot better than before. That said, given the way you have talked before, I get the impression you're of a republican bent so would have a skewed view of things.


hahah wrong


Actually if you look with open eyes you will see the republican areas get all the funding for schools and more. The deprived areas are actually unionist, look at all the school funding for new schools, all republican, and oh look a small barn for unionist areas.

ofcourse it is better than the 80s. That is not hard to be lol

As a famous politican said "They havnt gone away you know". infact there is currently an investigation into why government funding for a project has pictures of CHILDREN wearing PIRA paramilitary uniforms and branding replica AK-47 firearms, go read BBC news, actually here is a link... www.bbc.co.uk... That is Sinn Fein, now MLA's in power.
edit on 13-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:49 PM
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Misoir and EvanB.

Two interesting and vocal individuals for sure.

Nigel Farage...I think i would like him as a Foreign Minister.
He recently suggested putting the Military on the streets of London during these "Riots/Looting" , which suggests to me he is a bit too authoritarian.
That would exclude him from the Home Office and Prime Ministerial roles imho.
Minister of Defence would suit him as you could say he is already defending the UK from the Europeans.
He would appear to be very passionate about the Sovereignty of the UK and i'm sure that is a quality we could utilize.

George Galloway..Now i think George would actually make a great Home Office Minister/Secretary of State and a great Foreign Minister.
I think he is opposed to a UK nuclear deterrent and has rather radical views on how our Armed forces are deployed, the role of Defence Minister could be um.....interesting.
I am not sure what kind of Prime Minister he would be, will he be pragmatic or idealistic ??

Still no UK Ron Paul as yet, but there are a couple of people as mentioned by another poster who are presently kinda under the Radar, but who may in a short while emerge into the mainstream.

We do have a Constitution/Magna Carta and a Bill of Rights 1689 and Common Law, but we are yet to witness a representative personality such as Ron Paul is for Constitutionalist's in the US.

Now that peoples trust in Party politics has finally collapsed, there is a growing awareness that it is we the people who need to organize ourselves and to lead ourselves rather than to entrust our future with "Professional Politicians" who have been clinically diagnosed as Sociopaths.

Once we achieve true independence from the false Political Ideology we can then move onto the Psychopaths who control the Sociopaths...........perhaps another thread there...Who are the top ten Business/Financial Psychopaths?

Cosmic...



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic4life
Misoir and EvanB.

Two interesting and vocal individuals for sure.

Nigel Farage...I think i would like him as a Foreign Minister.
He recently suggested putting the Military on the streets of London during these "Riots/Looting" , which suggests to me he is a bit too authoritarian.
That would exclude him from the Home Office and Prime Ministerial roles imho.
Minister of Defence would suit him as you could say he is already defending the UK from the Europeans.
He would appear to be very passionate about the Sovereignty of the UK and i'm sure that is a quality we could utilize.

George Galloway..Now i think George would actually make a great Home Office Minister/Secretary of State and a great Foreign Minister.
I think he is opposed to a UK nuclear deterrent and has rather radical views on how our Armed forces are deployed, the role of Defence Minister could be um.....interesting.
I am not sure what kind of Prime Minister he would be, will he be pragmatic or idealistic ??

Still no UK Ron Paul as yet, but there are a couple of people as mentioned by another poster who are presently kinda under the Radar, but who may in a short while emerge into the mainstream.

We do have a Constitution/Magna Carta and a Bill of Rights 1689 and Common Law, but we are yet to witness a representative personality such as Ron Paul is for Constitutionalist's in the US.

Now that peoples trust in Party politics has finally collapsed, there is a growing awareness that it is we the people who need to organize ourselves and to lead ourselves rather than to entrust our future with "Professional Politicians" who have been clinically diagnosed as Sociopaths.

Once we achieve true independence from the false Political Ideology we can then move onto the Psychopaths who control the Sociopaths...........perhaps another thread there...Who are the top ten Business/Financial Psychopaths?

Cosmic...


So you want to leave Europe?

Ok, tell all those British people working abroad to quit or be fired and deported.
tell all those with properties in Turkey and Spain to sell them and leave?

All those human rights directives should be revoked from the UK? After all it was Europe that enforced various rights that the UK government denied the people.

Want to go on holiday to Spain or Turkey? No problem, Stand in line for 2 more hours, no more just waving your passport, you can get extra treatment, in that Non EU line over there.

Oh you purchased alchocol and cigerettes outside the UK eh.. no problem, you can pay us that extra tax now.

Ooh got a job outside the UK, no problem... fill in all this paper work, here is some hoops to jump through.. Oh, not european, hmmm gee i dono, that will cost more to employ you with the extra paperwork and permits. what?!! you dont have a permit? Well, have fun.

British business should just shut up shop, and fire their staff, after all they cannot afford to export to Europe now, exporting to the Eurozone will cost more, make them uncompetitive with all those tarifs.

Uk leaving Europe will fail.


edit on 13-8-2011 by JennaDarling because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
The UK version of Ron Paul is a pretty good guy, Nigel Farage. He is a member of European Parliament from the United Kingdom Independence Party. I have watched some of his speeches and he is pretty good.




Dont see much of this guy on the news or anything here though. This is the first time iv seen those speaches.

Cheers.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by sensairich
roger hayes of the BRITISH CONSTITUTION GROUP this movement will get big but like most things its about getting people to see the illusion for what it really is, check out there site also look at LAWFULL REBELLION because anything has got to be better than what we have got in government now


I would like to see some-one emerge from the BCG , all it takes is to get a forum on mainstream media.

...Ah there's the other issue we have to deal with, the mainstream media,maybe we should consider taking possession of the BBC.

Or would that class us as Al-Qaeda ??

Cosmic...



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 07:04 PM
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Am currently on the British Constitution Party right now.

I actually think this makes more sense than any other party.

I like the lawful rebellion aspect, there may be some difficulties in making it work such as getting the numbers.

It seems that this is the time to be bringing it in as an option.

We do have lots of educated people in Britain who have the skills and knowledge to make it work.

It's certainly worth looking at.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by JennaDarling
hahah wrong


Actually if you look with open eyes you will see the republican areas get all the funding for schools and more. The deprived areas are actually unionist, look at all the school funding for new schools, all republican, and oh look a small barn for unionist areas.


So, "Haha, wrong" on something I didn't even bring up? I never said anything about social deprivation or who gets what. I merely said it is better than it was during the height of the troubles because you said there is "no peace"..

Talk about taking something someone said, twisting it, lobbing it into space and then pulling something out of your arse to prove a point...

I see debating with you is as fruitful as chopping my nuts off and hoping for a baby.


Originally posted by JennaDarling
So you want to leave Europe?

Ok, tell all those British people working abroad to quit or be fired and deported.
tell all those with properties in Turkey and Spain to sell them and leave?


First of all, Turkey isn't in the EU, so what was your point? Secondly, Norway and other non-EU meber countries enjoy the same freedom of trade and travel as EU member countries, so again, what is your point?


Originally posted by JennaDarling
All those human rights directives should be revoked from the UK? After all it was Europe that enforced various rights that the UK government denied the people.


The Human Rights Act was the worst piece of legilsation brought in under Labour and it wasn't like the Government had ever denied any "human rights" before hand. The Human rights Act is on it's way out before the end of the Parliament anyway.


Originally posted by JennaDarling
Want to go on holiday to Spain or Turkey? No problem, Stand in line for 2 more hours, no more just waving your passport, you can get extra treatment, in that Non EU line over there.


Again, a totally ill thought out argument. One can be a member of the European free trade zone without having to be an EU member. And Turkey still isn't a member....


Originally posted by JennaDarling
Oh you purchased alchocol and cigerettes outside the UK eh.. no problem, you can pay us that extra tax now


Again, stupid point. Duty was only removed on such things a few years back when the UK Government upped the limits you could bring back. They could as easily place them on again and still, if part of the European free trade area, this wouldn't necessarily apply.


Originally posted by JennaDarling
Ooh got a job outside the UK, no problem... fill in all this paper work, here is some hoops to jump through.. Oh, not european, hmmm gee i dono, that will cost more to employ you with the extra paperwork and permits. what?!! you dont have a permit? Well, have fun.

British business should just shut up shop, and fire their staff, after all they cannot afford to export to Europe now, exporting to the Eurozone will cost more, make them uncompetitive with all those tarifs.

Uk leaving Europe will fail.


Again, moot points based on erroneous thinking and logic. It is quite possible to be a successful country with free trade to Europe without losing our Soveriegnty or being part of the EU.

You really do go off on one without actually considering the facts of the situation don't you?



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 03:25 AM
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Does anyone seriously think that Ron Paul is any different to the rest of the power hungry greedy parasites that walk the corridors of power. At the end of the day he sits on one side of the same coin and the same old tell the sheeple something they will like and that will do the trick, just like it always does. Same as when a candidate is told by TPTB to say they will raise taxes etc because they know that will elect the other candidate becuase that candidate was always going to win because its always pre-ordained in the US.

I would say there could never be a UK Ron Paul but it is pretty obvious already that Milliband will be elected next time simply because the current Government (including the so called Liberal Deputy PM who betrayed the Lib Dems) have practically guaranteed that the outcome of the next election by slashing benefits, plans for increasing pensionable age, tripling university fees, the list is endless. And now they want to blame parents and anybody they can for the social issues effecting the Uk.

People have had enough and heard it all before, but more so in recent times due to home grown bombings, too many immigrants (muslims and eastern block), brothers and sister being killed fighting in Afgan & Iraq.

Peoples everywhere have had enough of the power abuse and control exerted in the interest of the few.

There will not be a uk Ron Paul!!!
edit on 14-8-2011 by RoguePhilosopher because: syntax



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 04:02 AM
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A quick question (as per OP) deserves a quick answer!

Answer = The UK political system is different from the US and who is Ron Paul, he’s just a 75 year old Republican who’ll work to polarise the US even further? Only a few months ago people were wetting themselves with Obama frenzy.

For those who think UK Members of Parliament are all automatons, it should be noted that they frequently vote against the “party line”. This is what makes our democracy work. Oh, I know that the cynical think that everything is fixed, corrupt and foretold, but flies against the evidence.

Research Public Whip website and you will see.


Originally posted by Cosmic4life
George Galloway..Now i think George would actually make a great Home Office Minister/Secretary of State and a great Foreign Minister.


Oh, for Heaven’s sake. Galloway is an egotistical twat (using UK English meaning of the word). We must not forget that he counted the sadistic, psychotic dictator Saddam Hussein and his sick son Uday “the wolf” amongst his friends. The UK voters thought so in both the 2010 General Election and the 2011 Scottish elections he failed to get elected. Only people who are capable of being elected should hold any office!

Regards



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 04:17 AM
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Only party I see coming close to Ron Paul is the Green Party, here's some of their views:

The banking system



When it comes to the banking system The Green Party believe the government has acted completely irresponsibly. They have forced us, the tax-payer, to bail out the bankers. Yet they have failed to ensure that the same banks give desperately needed credit to families and independent businesses. We will fight for a fair financial deal, with community banks, credit unions and mutuals. This will ensure those who need financial help are given realistic loans, so they can survive the current economic hardship that we are facing today. We also believe it’s unfair that these irresponsible bankers continue to earn extortionate salaries and bonuses, while 330,000 hard working people still earn less than the low minimum wage. Which is why we will fight to introduce a High Pay Commission to ensure bankers and other highly paid executives in the private and public sectors are not rewarded for their failure.


Jobs and a living wage



Right now unemployment is skyrocketing and the government is doing little about it. Our policy is to fight for a fair, stable and sustainable economy. Top bankers continue to pocket your money in the form of unearned bonuses, while factories, firms and farms are forced to lay off more and more workers by the day, week and month. This must end. Our major and immediate priority is the creation of an extra million jobs and training places. An immediate £44bn package of measures would include workforce training, investment in renewables, public transport, insulation, social housing and waste management. These jobs will provide our country with the vital 21st century infrastructure it needs, including an efficient public transport system, homes that are warm and cheaper to run and much lower energy costs for businesses. The gap between rich and poor in the UK has never been wider and it continues to get worse. We think it's unfair that the Government has failed to do anything about it. We are demanding the introduction of a 'Living Wage'. This will help ensure low paid workers earn enough to provide for themselves and their families and eradicate poverty in Britain for good. The Green Party will fight for a National Minimum Wage of 60% of net national average earnings (currently this would mean a minimum wage of £8.10 per hour). We will also fight for a fair financial deal with community banks, credit unions and mutuals to provide realistic loans to families and small businesses.


War



Complete withdrawal of US military forces and mercenaries, under safe conditions and UN supervision.


More info here - Green Party. Unfortunately I cant see them getting into power



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 04:30 AM
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TONY BENN was without doubt the greatest
Prime Minister Britain NEVER had.
Britain trading in the EU yes.
EU interfering in British sovereign matters NO.



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 04:51 AM
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Just watching Sunday Morning Live on BBC1
Terry Christian talks a lot of sense doesnt he?



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


There are still ninety two hereditary peers in the Lords. Many peers have no political alliegance, when the is an elected second chamber all it will give us is same old same.

Whoever we elect be they left ,right greens, UKIP,Independants etc are in it for one thing, their own idealogy

Belgium seems to be doing very well without a government.

From the Telegraph




Belgium has now gone for more than a year without a government and, you know what? Life is carrying on as normal. The crops are growing, the wheels are turning in the factories, the civil servants (there are lots of these) are lingering over their coffee and speculoos biscuits. A lighter than normal legislative agenda has given the country something of a boost: growth forecasts keep being upwardly revised, and the economy is expected to expand by 2.3 per cent this year


Telegraph Link

What other country in the EU or the one across the pond expects 2.3% growth this year?



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by JustMeLiverpool
TONY BENN was without doubt the greatest
Prime Minister Britain NEVER had.
Britain trading in the EU yes.
EU interfering in British sovereign matters NO.


I agree but T. Benn was, is an old time Socialist he would be an anathema in UK 2011



posted on Aug, 14 2011 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by dizzylizzy
reply to post by stumason
 


There are still ninety two hereditary peers in the Lords. Many peers have no political alliegance, when the is an elected second chamber all it will give us is same old same.

Whoever we elect be they left ,right greens, UKIP,Independants etc are in it for one thing, their own idealogy

Belgium seems to be doing very well without a government.

From the Telegraph




Belgium has now gone for more than a year without a government and, you know what? Life is carrying on as normal. The crops are growing, the wheels are turning in the factories, the civil servants (there are lots of these) are lingering over their coffee and speculoos biscuits. A lighter than normal legislative agenda has given the country something of a boost: growth forecasts keep being upwardly revised, and the economy is expected to expand by 2.3 per cent this year


Telegraph Link

What other country in the EU or the one across the pond expects 2.3% growth this year?



China?




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