Originally posted by muzzleflash
Saying someone doesn't understand something is a cop out.

Explain it to them than, clearly and concisely, if you are so enlightened.

But just simply saying "You just don't understand, hahahaha" is lame to the max.

Obviously you can explain things or you cannot. Going around telling people they are wrong without supplying the reasoning that elaborates upon the ideal you are articulating is a very sad and pathetic form of argumentation.

It is by definition Ad Hominem, because you are insulting the messenger while failing to address the argument or it's points directly.

Once again you make up sentences i have never typed.

Where did i say "you just dont understand hahahaha"? Not in this thread thats for sure

I have debunked numerous threads on all different subjects. Im not looking at it from the OPs point of view, im using logic and reason.
I will research, i wont only use the sites provided by the OP, i will look for information myself. This is the easiest way to debunk most subjects.

I would just like to add, my purpose here is not to debunk every thread. Im skeptical of a lot of whats posted as for the most part it can be explained by other means.

If i see something thats looks like a hoax, yea il jump in, and do some research. I dont come in and make up things to help my position.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Saying someone doesn't understand something is a cop out.

Explain it to them than, clearly and concisely, if you are so enlightened.

But just simply saying "You just don't understand, hahahaha" is lame to the max.

Obviously you can explain things or you cannot. Going around telling people they are wrong without supplying the reasoning that elaborates upon the ideal you are articulating is a very sad and pathetic form of argumentation.

It is by definition Ad Hominem, because you are insulting the messenger while failing to address the argument or it's points directly.

that which you are describing sir is not a debunker, it is a TROLL.

Originally posted by loves a conspiricy

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Saying someone doesn't understand something is a cop out.

Explain it to them than, clearly and concisely, if you are so enlightened.

But just simply saying "You just don't understand, hahahaha" is lame to the max.

Obviously you can explain things or you cannot. Going around telling people they are wrong without supplying the reasoning that elaborates upon the ideal you are articulating is a very sad and pathetic form of argumentation.

It is by definition Ad Hominem, because you are insulting the messenger while failing to address the argument or it's points directly.

Once again you make up sentences i have never typed.

Where did i say "you just dont understand hahahaha"? Not in this thread thats for sure

I have debunked numerous threads on all different subjects. Im not looking at it from the OPs point of view, im using logic and reason.
I will research, i wont only use the sites provided by the OP, i will look for information myself. This is the easiest way to debunk most subjects.

Notice with your logic and reasoning, that the post you are quoting was not made in response to you directly.

It was a general response to general principals.

That is another logical fallacy you are making. You are associating information with your personality. You are thinking an idea resonates with you and thus connects to your persona. This is a mental trap.

You have to distance your personal view of yourself away from the ideas you may entertain today, because tomorrow you can find better ideas and will have to reject today's assumptions.

If you connect your persona with ideas you have, it will become impossible for you to learn new information because any new information is "insulting" and becomes a "personal attack".

It is not personal. Ideas can stand on their own, or they can fall on their own. We do not need to connect our persona with our ideals, it's a fallacy and very troublesome.

Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
"Belief is the death of intelligence." - RAW

So do you believe that 'belief is the death of intelligence'? Paradox ?

Only if I were intelligent ... but thanks for the compliment.

Therefore you don't believe anything, and if you do, you have no intelligence.

Belief is merely personal vanity/ego needing to possess thoughts, it has nothing to do with the truth. The truth itself neither requires nor cares about being believed it just is, despite anyone's protestations and notwithstanding anyone's belief. To quote another great mind: 'The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent.' - SK

That quote is garbage, sorry.

Mmm, perhaps ... but consider looking into who it was that said it, and take into consideration the fact that he was one of the great truth seekers and conspiratorial minds of the 20th century. He was both those things precisely because he understood that belief not only is not required in the pursuit of truth, but might in fact be the greatest hurdle to it. And he didn't mind debunkers any more than he minded believers ... like most intelligent people he let them play their little self validating games, watched them entrench themselves in the insignificant, and went on his way uncovering truths without their distractions.

Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze
I have noticed a small minority of debunkers (not naming any names) who have only one intention - to debunk every single conspiracy on ATS. This small minority of "elite" debunkers have thousands of stars and posts, all of which are dedicated to debunking at whatever cost (having checked their history of posts and threads).

It just doesn't make sense to why they would join a conspiracy site to debunk conspiracies when the only reason behind it is that they have an agenda or are paid agents by The Powers That Be (TPTB).

These elite debunkers are so perfectly well adapted to ATS and have gathered huge support from ATS users that if they were named, this thread would no doubt be attacked and ridiculed!

Just to clear things up, I don't have a problem with debunkers. But those that make it a mission to debunk/ridicule every conspiracy discussed on ATS since they have joined, is my cause for concern.

edit on 13-8-2011 by CasiusIgnoranze because: .

Could it not be because some of us value truth and want to actually deny ignorance instead of believing every single conspiracy perpetrated by the ignorant and the charlatans of this world. Debunkers are here for a very good reason. To try and cut through all the B.S. and get to the actual facts instead of just being caught up in the intrigue of the next conspiracy.

I originally came here because I was interested in conspiracy theories. I signed up some time in 2009, but I never really got into posting regularly until around January this year IIRC.

I was an avid conspiracist, and believed in the usual ones (9/11, aliens etc). Then I came to my senses and realised how silly some of the conspiracy theories actually were. Now that I'm here I may as well try and debunk and/or correct any mis/disinfo that happens to be posted here.

As for people being paid to debunk, I certainly am not (I have been accused several times), and I don't see why someone would pay someone else to visit a website to argue a certain point.

Originally posted by The GUT
The debunkers are really closet believers waiting for the nugget of proof that never comes. Just kiddin'. Kind of.

Some of the so-called "debunkers" are obviously idiots. Maladjusted malcontent trolls. Just as some of the "believers" are.

But the best of the debunkers are truly your--and my--friend! They champion critical thinking and encourage it in others.

They make us smarter…and a better community. If there were no debunkers here this would truly be a waste of time.

What I'm wondering is: Have any of the ATS debunkers of past/present changed their viewpoints any? As in became more openminded as a result of their interaction here?

I have changed my mind on something that I have previously called into question, namely, the "electric universe" theories. While seeking to provide "textbook" responses to the OP, I did some math and research, and the answers strongly support electric charge and plasma physics as being more significant forces on astronomical scales, than gravitation.

I have also "debunked" several threads ascribing doom & gloom to the insignificant comet CX/2010 (Elenin), but that is because what the posters suggested was baseless nonsense (which continues to be repeated and reinforced without dissenting views to counter it).

Originally posted by silent thunder
Deny ignorance.

Sometimes denying ignorance means accepting conspiracy, sometimes debunking.

While kneekjerk debunkery is just as blind as kneejerk "i wanna believe," ultimately a good skeptic adds real value to the community by pushing everyone to refine their position and bring it closer to the truth.

problem with that is, what one fellow considers a real conspiracy, another considers ignorant. so it's a matter of evidence. however, what one fellow considers real evidence, another considers ignorance. this is further exemplified by appealing to the authority of mob agreement (see how many stars that guy got for debunking or attempting to debunk, that theory?!!). YET, we all know the many aren't necessarily more accurate than the few or the one.

all that to say, that with the plethora of political, world view and religious positions attached to a theory, statement or debunking, there's really no hard and fast rule as to who is ABSOLUTELY right. that's why i find it safer to say god is right. as it appeals to a condition far above the human condition, and can be a fountain of higher knowledge otherwise unknown in the human morass of opinion.