Elite Debunkers on ATS have been debunking every conspiracy since they joined. Why?

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posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Saying someone doesn't understand something is a cop out.

Explain it to them than, clearly and concisely, if you are so enlightened.

But just simply saying "You just don't understand, hahahaha" is lame to the max.

Obviously you can explain things or you cannot. Going around telling people they are wrong without supplying the reasoning that elaborates upon the ideal you are articulating is a very sad and pathetic form of argumentation.

It is by definition Ad Hominem, because you are insulting the messenger while failing to address the argument or it's points directly.


Once again you make up sentences i have never typed.

Where did i say "you just dont understand hahahaha"? Not in this thread thats for sure


I have debunked numerous threads on all different subjects. Im not looking at it from the OPs point of view, im using logic and reason.
I will research, i wont only use the sites provided by the OP, i will look for information myself. This is the easiest way to debunk most subjects.

I would just like to add, my purpose here is not to debunk every thread. Im skeptical of a lot of whats posted as for the most part it can be explained by other means.

If i see something thats looks like a hoax, yea il jump in, and do some research. I dont come in and make up things to help my position.
edit on 13-8-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
Saying someone doesn't understand something is a cop out.

Explain it to them than, clearly and concisely, if you are so enlightened.

But just simply saying "You just don't understand, hahahaha" is lame to the max.

Obviously you can explain things or you cannot. Going around telling people they are wrong without supplying the reasoning that elaborates upon the ideal you are articulating is a very sad and pathetic form of argumentation.

It is by definition Ad Hominem, because you are insulting the messenger while failing to address the argument or it's points directly.


that which you are describing sir is not a debunker, it is a TROLL.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy

Originally posted by muzzleflash
Saying someone doesn't understand something is a cop out.

Explain it to them than, clearly and concisely, if you are so enlightened.

But just simply saying "You just don't understand, hahahaha" is lame to the max.

Obviously you can explain things or you cannot. Going around telling people they are wrong without supplying the reasoning that elaborates upon the ideal you are articulating is a very sad and pathetic form of argumentation.

It is by definition Ad Hominem, because you are insulting the messenger while failing to address the argument or it's points directly.


Once again you make up sentences i have never typed.

Where did i say "you just dont understand hahahaha"? Not in this thread thats for sure


I have debunked numerous threads on all different subjects. Im not looking at it from the OPs point of view, im using logic and reason.
I will research, i wont only use the sites provided by the OP, i will look for information myself. This is the easiest way to debunk most subjects.



Notice with your logic and reasoning, that the post you are quoting was not made in response to you directly.

It was a general response to general principals.

That is another logical fallacy you are making. You are associating information with your personality. You are thinking an idea resonates with you and thus connects to your persona. This is a mental trap.

You have to distance your personal view of yourself away from the ideas you may entertain today, because tomorrow you can find better ideas and will have to reject today's assumptions.

If you connect your persona with ideas you have, it will become impossible for you to learn new information because any new information is "insulting" and becomes a "personal attack".

It is not personal. Ideas can stand on their own, or they can fall on their own. We do not need to connect our persona with our ideals, it's a fallacy and very troublesome.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:36 PM
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For example here is a post of mine in a thread about strange noises...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I researched and came up with a probable, LOGICAL explanation.

I didnt come in and say " hahahaha your all so dumb, look at you cretins and your stupid ideas"

Funny enough...i dont get many stars in my posts, mainly because people dont want the truth, they want to live in a fantasy land where the worlds ending every 5 minutes and alien attacks are a daily thing.

And heres another of my posts:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

See...once again i did my research and came up with the answer to this...not a UFO...just a light
edit on 13-8-2011 by loves a conspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 


I think you are speaking of those nattering nabobs of negativity. The ones who seem almost comical in their rebuttals of peoples threads. Almost like a parody of the Monty Python Argument Sketch.

They usually show up in the first three or so replies of a thread and just plain discount it, often in simple, authoritative manner. When challenged they often reply (as humbleone points out earlier) with matrix like answers.

Engage them in debate, displaying any intelligence at all and they capitulate politely and disengage, OR they just do not repond at all.

And then, as you mention you have done, checking their posting history sometimes you can find that they cruise the new topic board and will hit one after another after another, sometimes posting a dozen short replies in an hour. And mostly contrary to the OP.

In this thread, I have read a lot of very positive support of debunking. This is good , just not if you always sound like John Cleese.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 



Here is a link to a list of fallacies . Learn that list, use it against them.


Great link flash. I've bookmarked it on my desktop.Thanks.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze

It just doesn't make sense to why they would join a conspiracy site to debunk conspiracies...


Maybe it does....

Check out the new definition of a troll .There was a studydone on them:


According to Hardaker, a troll is an individual "who constructs the identity of sincerely wishing to be part of the group in question, including professing or conveying pseudo-sincere intentions, but whose real intention(s) is/are to cause disruption and/or to trigger or exacerbate conflict for the purposes of their own amusement.”

Read more: newsfeed.time.com...


The best way to troll sites like ATS is as a 'skeptic' who 'sincerely just wants to know'.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Can you imagine the nonsense this place would be filled with if no one looked at it from a critical perspective?

They wouldnt be able to use the slogan "deny ignorance" if it was just full of people willing to believe any old tosh.

If im classed as a troll so be it
At least im taking the time to research some of these topics, and not just taking the word of every single person who posts a thread.

Maybe ATS should get rid of the [HOAX] forum, clearly despite overwhelming evidence people still believe some of the nonsense in that forum.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
"Belief is the death of intelligence." - RAW



So do you believe that 'belief is the death of intelligence'? Paradox ?


Only if I were intelligent ... but thanks for the compliment.


Therefore you don't believe anything, and if you do, you have no intelligence.


Belief is merely personal vanity/ego needing to possess thoughts, it has nothing to do with the truth. The truth itself neither requires nor cares about being believed it just is, despite anyone's protestations and notwithstanding anyone's belief. To quote another great mind: 'The most terrifying fact about the universe is not that it is hostile but that it is indifferent.' - SK


That quote is garbage, sorry.


Mmm, perhaps ... but consider looking into who it was that said it, and take into consideration the fact that he was one of the great truth seekers and conspiratorial minds of the 20th century. He was both those things precisely because he understood that belief not only is not required in the pursuit of truth, but might in fact be the greatest hurdle to it. And he didn't mind debunkers any more than he minded believers ... like most intelligent people he let them play their little self validating games, watched them entrench themselves in the insignificant, and went on his way uncovering truths without their distractions.

edit on 13 Aug 2011 by schrodingers dog because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by loves a conspiricy
reply to post by Exuberant1
 


Can you imagine the nonsense this place would be filled with if no one looked at it from a critical perspective?


Haha, I don't think there would be a difference.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by CasiusIgnoranze
I have noticed a small minority of debunkers (not naming any names) who have only one intention - to debunk every single conspiracy on ATS. This small minority of "elite" debunkers have thousands of stars and posts, all of which are dedicated to debunking at whatever cost (having checked their history of posts and threads).

It just doesn't make sense to why they would join a conspiracy site to debunk conspiracies when the only reason behind it is that they have an agenda or are paid agents by The Powers That Be (TPTB).

These elite debunkers are so perfectly well adapted to ATS and have gathered huge support from ATS users that if they were named, this thread would no doubt be attacked and ridiculed!

Just to clear things up, I don't have a problem with debunkers. But those that make it a mission to debunk/ridicule every conspiracy discussed on ATS since they have joined, is my cause for concern.

edit on 13-8-2011 by CasiusIgnoranze because: .


Could it not be because some of us value truth and want to actually deny ignorance instead of believing every single conspiracy perpetrated by the ignorant and the charlatans of this world. Debunkers are here for a very good reason. To try and cut through all the B.S. and get to the actual facts instead of just being caught up in the intrigue of the next conspiracy.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Cobaltic1978
 


It's not just the 10 year olds who fall into the trap of believing some of these stories. I have fallen in on occasion (I'm embarrassed to say) and quite frankly, appreciate a good old slap-in-the-face reality check every once in a while. GO DEBUNKERS! The truth will stand on its own and no one will be able to debunk it.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 


Because they are the Skully to your Mulder.

Embrace it.
edit on 13-8-2011 by The Utopian Penguin because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 


If you are criticising the use of critical thinking then you should be ashamed.

Life....Warts 'n all.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 05:33 PM
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I originally came here because I was interested in conspiracy theories. I signed up some time in 2009, but I never really got into posting regularly until around January this year IIRC.

I was an avid conspiracist, and believed in the usual ones (9/11, aliens etc). Then I came to my senses and realised how silly some of the conspiracy theories actually were. Now that I'm here I may as well try and debunk and/or correct any mis/disinfo that happens to be posted here.

As for people being paid to debunk, I certainly am not (I have been accused several times), and I don't see why someone would pay someone else to visit a website to argue a certain point.
edit on 13/8/2011 by Griffo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by The Utopian Penguin
reply to post by CasiusIgnoranze
 


Because they are the Skully to your Mulder.

Embrace it.
edit on 13-8-2011 by The Utopian Penguin because: (no reason given)


Yea well... thanks to mulder, scully eventually started to believe...
scully was hard headed but she saw the light!



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by The GUT
The debunkers are really closet believers waiting for the nugget of proof that never comes. Just kiddin'. Kind of.

Some of the so-called "debunkers" are obviously idiots. Maladjusted malcontent trolls. Just as some of the "believers" are.

But the best of the debunkers are truly your--and my--friend! They champion critical thinking and encourage it in others.

They make us smarter…and a better community. If there were no debunkers here this would truly be a waste of time.

What I'm wondering is: Have any of the ATS debunkers of past/present changed their viewpoints any? As in became more openminded as a result of their interaction here?


I have changed my mind on something that I have previously called into question, namely, the "electric universe" theories. While seeking to provide "textbook" responses to the OP, I did some math and research, and the answers strongly support electric charge and plasma physics as being more significant forces on astronomical scales, than gravitation.

I have also "debunked" several threads ascribing doom & gloom to the insignificant comet CX/2010 (Elenin), but that is because what the posters suggested was baseless nonsense (which continues to be repeated and reinforced without dissenting views to counter it).
edit on 13/8/2011 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by chr0naut
 


Thanks for the reply to my question. You're one of the good ones. A lot to learn here from each other and the research we end up doing as a result of our interaction.



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 
I see it this way we are on a conspiracy site,and because it's "conspiracies" we talk about,the evidence for,is harder to prove because most of the time the truth of the matter is so well hidden.So the argument is unbalanced to begin with,see what I'm saying?it will always be that way.


My beliefs are mine and do not wish to fling poo at anyone to convince them otherwise,regardless of their so called expertise,I will believe what I believe...period.
It is funny though I'll read through a certain controversial topic that I enjoy reading and can almost pinpoint when a certain debunker will come along and boom the whole thread changes to swapping personal attacks and most of the time the thread spirals down and dies.Really ticks me off because any chance of getting to the bottom of said subject gets lost.It's really a shame because it's kind of why this site was created to discuss odd,strange, topics.....To me it takes the heart out of ATS
edit on 13-8-2011 by TWILITE22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2011 @ 07:13 PM
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Originally posted by silent thunder
Deny ignorance.

Sometimes denying ignorance means accepting conspiracy, sometimes debunking.

While kneekjerk debunkery is just as blind as kneejerk "i wanna believe," ultimately a good skeptic adds real value to the community by pushing everyone to refine their position and bring it closer to the truth.


problem with that is, what one fellow considers a real conspiracy, another considers ignorant. so it's a matter of evidence. however, what one fellow considers real evidence, another considers ignorance. this is further exemplified by appealing to the authority of mob agreement (see how many stars that guy got for debunking or attempting to debunk, that theory?!!). YET, we all know the many aren't necessarily more accurate than the few or the one.

all that to say, that with the plethora of political, world view and religious positions attached to a theory, statement or debunking, there's really no hard and fast rule as to who is ABSOLUTELY right. that's why i find it safer to say god is right. as it appeals to a condition far above the human condition, and can be a fountain of higher knowledge otherwise unknown in the human morass of opinion.





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