Economics, Unemployment, Child Support and Incarceration.

Good day all,

I would like to start by stating this is not a "Dead Beat Dad" conversation. It is a serious conversation on a situation that a lot of todays non-custodial parents face everyday in this current economy. That said, I would like to give you a situation, laid out to me by a friend and the experiences I saw being part of it, that he has found himself in.

First a little background(with a little added flair in the attempt to show his emotional mind set and attempt to make it a more enjoyable read):

In 1991 (21yo @ the time) he was dumped by his girlfriend of 2 1/2 years, devastated he fell into the bottle. This led to wanting to party in order to keep his mind off the situation, and working in fast food(He had always wanted to own a restaurant and had begun to learn the ins and outs), made it all the more easy to do. Because his Love for her was so deep, he had solidified the picture of a house with a white picket fence, his wife,kids, and the dog in the back yard, the American dream, into his mind.

One day, after work, one of his fellow employees walked up to him and slapped him in the face. She looked him straight in the eyes and said, something like, "I am sick and tired of seeing you walking around with a shadow on your back! You are wasting your life! Snap out of it!". Something in what she said did snap him out of it and he stopped drinking, went back to focusing on learning the Fast Food business, and began to date.

A little time later, his 22nd birthday to be exact, he met a girl.

This girl was 5 1/2 months pregnant, from an abusive man, who had threatened her life. This triggered the mindset of the American Dream and his empathy took over. He opened his heart and gave it all without prejudice, and, with the (guiding) help of her parents, they wed 21 days later. Instantly, the arguments began, and it got so bad that he found himself arguing over toilet paper. He took this as hormones and loved her even more. Then came the baby girl.

He loved her as his own again without prejudice. The arguments became heightened to the point where she would scream at him, at any time, day or night. When the little girl was 6 months old the arguments heightened again to throwing things at him. One day she threw a plate at him and it shattered on the fire place mantle behind him with the pieces falling on the little girl in her car seat. One of the pieces of glass fell on her cheek. It did not cut but was there none the less. He then said(by his quote), "I can not hit a woman, but I swear to you little girl, if you ever do that and put our daughter at risk again, I WILL slap the living sh** out of you, because SHE can not defend herself." She never did throw anything again.

That was the turning point in the arguments that ultimately led to the end of the marriage. It calmed down for a while and he began to become sexual with her again and she became pregnant. She instantly reverted back, except this time physically hitting him(hand, fist, anything within reach). When the second little girl was born(2 years 3 days after her sister) the beating came more frequent.

On November 23rd(the day before Thanksgiving) he had had enough and decided to leave. He knew the girls were safe from her and that he would be living in his car, so he made the decision to leave them there and walked out saying(by his quote), "Don't you ever have a guy stay the night or do anything in front of the girls as long a I am paying the rent or I will terminate the lease and take the girls". He returned the next morning to spend Thanksgiving with the girls and when he let himself in, he found his wife and another guy naked on the couch with his oldest sleeping on the floor.

To avoid conflict, that most likely would become violent, he went outside to his car and got his blanket and placed it over his daughter and carried her to bed, and left. 3 hours later, she began to blow up his cell phone knowing that he had been there because of the blanket. He was so mad he didn't want to talk to her but gave in later that day. She turned it on him by demanding what gave him the right to just walk in like that and screamed about it for an hour completely ignoring what she had done. As soon as the Holiday weekend was over he filed the paperwork to remove himself from the lease and started looking for a two bedroom apartment and she filed a restraining order(unannounced to him) stating that he hit her(later she admitted to him that she had had her new boyfriend hit her for pics and called the police).

Two weeks later, he found an apartment, paid the first and last month and a deposit(using the last of the money he was willing to take from the account for the girls sake) and moved in. The next day he went to collect the girls and she called the police. He was denied access to the girls and was arrested for assault and violating a restraining order. He spent the next month in Jail because he could not make bail. The charges were dropped and he was released but this led to 3 things:

1. He lost his job.
2. He lost his apartment and credit.
3. He lost his car to being towed and no money to pay the bill.

He gave up his pride and stayed with me(He went to see the girls every other day on the average). Within 2 weeks he had secured a new job(at the bottom again) and began looking for an efficiency to get his own place. Within a month from that he was back on his feet, in an apartment and he began paying $350 a month to his wife to help with the girls. Then the divorce began.

Due to the restraining order, a judge had begun a temporary child support of $180/month without his knowledge. Then in prelims another judge set a temporary child support order, pending the outcome of the divorce at $180/month, beginning the day he moved out(therefore already in the hole). 30 days later a permanent child support order of $180/month beginning the day he moved out, was given completely ignoring the fact that the first girl was not his.

He informed his Public Pretender, sorry, Public Defender(P.D.) that the child was not his on multiple occasions, along with the name of the real Father and was ignored. He went to her boss and informed him and the answer he received was "We don't like to Bastardize children". He begrudgingly paid the child support to his ex-wife(not because it was too much and he wanted to get it reduced, but because he didn't want to pay for someone elses child). She never turned in the payments to the state and 2 years later he was arrested, while at work, for non compliance of a court order and a dept of $19,480.00.($180/month X 3(the original 2 cases were never ended) X 3 years). He spent 30 days in jail(bench warrant) not able to see a judge, as the ruling had already been made. Again he lost his job and apartment(along with some more credit)

He went to his P.D. and begged them to review his case. Finally, they found that A case was never closed and that brought the total down to $12,960.00. He was then ordered to pay $360 a month. $180 child support and $180 in arrears, payable directly to the State.

I had moved out of state so he stayed with another friend of ours while he picked himself back up. He was attempting to find a job(at the bottom again), save for a place to live and pay his child support all at the same time. The courts gave him 30 days to begin payments and he did not make it on time due to pay cycles and a warrant was issued unknown to him. 3 Days after he moved into his new apartment they arrested him again for failure to comply(Bench warrant), this time for 60 days and a $1,000.00 fine.(the fine does not go to child support it goes to the state). Again he lost everything.

Because of the fact that he had not been around to see the girls and she was no longer getting cash in hand she moved without a forwarding address. Two years later, he found her and the girls. She told him that he was not allowed to see the girls because she was not getting any child support but $50 dollars a month(she happened to have a child support check on her to show she was only getting a support of $50) and until he gave it to her in cash he could not see them. She moved again.

Enraged he went to the P.D. again demanding to know why the state was keeping $230 of his support and not giving it to his children. The answer was because he was so far behind. This did not make sense as the arrears were the children also and he demanded an evaluation of his account and come to find out it was over $19,000 again. Let me tell you he was ballistic. 3 months later someone just happened to catch that the second order was never closed and that brought it down to around $7,000 in arrears.

A number of years later(about the time I moved back), he was the General Manager of a restaurant, had an apartment, paying his bills, etc. when he met a woman.

They fell in love(his heart half closed), he moved in with her and had a baby boy. 10 days short of his 4th month the baby died of SIDS(his temp spiked to 114 degrees in about 10 minutes) and the woman blamed him for the loss because he was home. He lost everything, except his job. It was then that he learned the true meaning of hate he says. He went into work as his life and eventually was placed on leave by the owner because he burned out and needed to deal with the loss. He then remembered all the trouble he had when he went to the bottle and instead, picked up smoking marijuana with some of his other friends. The owner found out and terminated him. He quit smoking and went out to find a new job. Yet once again, right after he started his job he was arrested and held for 60 days causing a loss of everything.

He found a new job as a General Manager, began paying again, worked his way into an apartment and again decided to date. The woman he chose is a great lady and he is lucky to have her. A year after they met he decided to break down the walls in his heart, love her unconditionally, and they were married(going on 9 years, this month I think). He found another job working for a remodeling as it payed more. 3 years later his boss was indited with embezzlement and the company folded leaving him out of work. With a 2yo daughter and a wife, plus child support he actively searched for a job but did not find one in time and was arrested for 90 days and a $2,500 fine. When he got out he said(and I witnessed it) "FU** this State" and it was decided, between himself and his wife that she would work and he stay home and she took over payments.

Shortly after his second daughter was born(with her) he again went to his P.D. and demanded that the State stop stealing the money from his kids and give the full amount as well as removing the First child from the case. The state "Respectfully declined", so they decided to move out of State. The reasons being were that the money going to child support could keep the family from having to get assistance from the state and it made no sense to pay $360 to the States fund and then receive $616 in food assistance.

They switched roles again and he took another G.M. position at another restaurant. After securing all that he needed for his family he began sending child support anyway(out of state and no extradition he didn't have to, but he really wanted to provide for his other child). They were gone for about a year when his wife had a bad car accident and had three compression fractured vertebrae. It was decided that she would come back with the kids and stay with family while he worked on getting a new vehicle to join her. Three months later he came back and stayed with me while looking for a job, so he could bring his family back together in a place of their own.

Yep you guessed it, right after finding a job he was arrested and held for 90 days. The Family helped out and got his wife and kids an apartment because she had gotten her old job back. When he got out they had a family reunion of over 7 months apart. He found out a few days later that the oldest girl from his first marriage was taken into State custody(foster home for 60 days) 3 years prior without his knowledge.(If she was considered his, he should have been notified. If not he should not be paying child support) He sent the Governor a letter describing the situation and in part stating that "the State can take their child support laws and shove them up their....."

Just under a year later he decided he was not taking the chance of another child and got a vasectomy. Two weeks after his surgery they found out his wife was pregnant. They now have a 1yo boy.

All this time he has been raising and teaching his children, his 8yo is in all advanced classes in school and her siblings are following suite.

A year later the court set a date to discuss the situation. He refused to hear their case until it was mutually beneficial. They said(paraphrased), 1st child stays on the order even though she turns 19 in Sept.( Which is when she is dropped from the case), All the money would go to the children, the monthly support total would be dropped by $40, the fine would, instead of being raised, as per the number of violations, would go down to $1,000, and instead of 90 days( the amount for the amount of violations) it would remain at 60, then instead of 30 days to begin paying 60 days were given.

His answer was that he refused to pay a usury on a loan he did not sign for, as the state is charging 23% on the arrears. They reached an accord and it brought his total owed for arrears from over $28,000 to just under $12,000, but this was his last chance and next time it would be 2years and $10,000 fine and the usury will be reapplied.

That 60 days is up on the 31st of this month and he has yet to find a job. All he knows is the restaurant business. They pay "Sea Shells" instead of real money(figure of speech), and the positions are filled with collage kids trying to pay for school and ex collage kids because there is nothing for them to go into, and remodeling which people never give up those jobs except in retirement or death. So he will most likely go to jail for 60 days plus 11 days for the fine and loose the deal. putting him back in the hole $28,000.

The State pays toward fines $90 a day (just upped for the first time in 26 years from $60), yet the corrections department is payed $344/day/inmate. Thats a difference of $234 going to the corrections department/inmate/day. Meanwhile his ex wife has 7 children from 6 fathers, lives with another guy(not a father to any of them) and collects assistance because she is too over weight to work as well as any child support payed by the 6 fathers. Her man is on the assistance as well and does not work.(according to a mutual friend that will not disclose her whereabouts so he can see the girls all this is about.)


This is just one story of a mans plight in dealing with child support. Yes, maybe he made some bad decisions but with the economy failing as it is the numbers of people who can not find work and end up in jail for non compliance of a court ordered child support will skyrocket and good people who want to support their children will be taken from the families they live with and love, rendering other children without a parental unit in the home, making it harder for the other parent to do it all them self and possibly forced to apply for assistance. Isn't it supposed to be about the Children? As it stands it is the State and corrections making the money which comes from the tax payers which causes the State to get assistance from the Federal Government which comes from the tax payers which is in the budget that they can't fix.

How say Ye?

reply to post by IPILYA

I say wow. That is quite a story and I feel for your friend. What an endless nightmare of being tied to the state. Rollye James has made the obscene abuses of the State run Child Support System a personal mission on her radio show and I've learned a great deal about it from her and many stories like this one. I hope no one doubts the vracity of this type of thing happening and to people every day, not just a rare or unfortunate accident of the system.

S/F. Great post for a topic that deserves much more attention. This topic and the Civil Forfeiture system. Two sides of the same corrupt system to bleed money and assets from people. The State Run Child Support system is just evil in how it does it for life and kids don't see all of it, even when both parents are on great terms and the payments are prompt and made with smiles.

I have a close friend who is starting to share this same nightmare presently.

It is a nightmare, but it is one of their own creation.

Wrong choice every time at the crossroads.

Who is to blame…they are.

We all have choices in this life and the choice always come in twos, the right choice and the wrong choice, no matter what you choose it is what you must live with. So, if you chose incorrectly you will live with the consequences of that choice as well. So really try to make the correct choice each and every time.

Young men hear this good.

You DO NOT Marry a girl after 21 days.

You DO NOT Marry a girl who is already pregnant by another.

Really take your time , a year or better to get to know the young women no matter what.

There is NO excuse today for a young man to “accidentally” impregnate his girl.

If you are lucky enough to find a woman who will share this life with you, Do Not have a baby until you as a couple have had a few of years together as a couple.

Lust is not Love.

I am truly moved by the sadness of your friend’s story, I hope the young men that will read it understand that this is what happens when you make the wrong choices in this life.

Man, that sucks. However, not to be flippant or callous, but his first and biggest mistake was to marry someone he barely knew after less that a month, even moreso that she was 5 months pregnant. People make dumb mistakes when they are young. Getting married so quickly to someone is one of the dumbest. Sorry to hear about your friend

That is why i refuse to put my childrens father on child supporr. We are together. But i have other children i absolutely refused child support through the state. All they care about is financial. What about an actual relationship? If they inforced that instead, maybe these men would happily provide for their children. My husband pays for children he never sees. Court dont care. "get a lawyer" they say. "all we are here for is financial"... Then why the f%%% even set visitation?

Yes, he is very aware of his mistakes. He says " I made my bed and now I have to sleep in it, all I want is to get a job, pay my bills, love my family and live without fear." I hear this over and over again, it's like his favorite statement on the subject.

The problem is that even people who do not make these mistakes and are caught up can go from well to jailed in 60 days if they loose their jobs and can not find one due to the economy and unemployment. Then we have good people locked up and kept from their families on the taxpayers dime. Making it harder for everyone while the States and Corrections make out big.

Thanks for your replies.

A PD is the problem. They are garbage. I had one before and he said I wasn't allowed to speak to the judge nor did he want to hear my side. The judge was about to put me away for a few months before the judge asked if I had anything to add. I most certainly did and I never went to jail. I hope he never made it as a lawyer, piece of poop he was. But I digress, your friend, He should look for an actual lawyer to take his case pro bono. Get all that mess squared around (paying for a kid thats not his, why isn't the sperm donor considered responsible?) and sue the # out of the state for pain and suffering, defamation of character, etc.

Sounds alot like Pennsylvania.

The whole child support system is a racket the courts make money off of. They have no desire to do the right thing the more they can charge they better and they get a percentage of it all. My brother married the bitch from hell and had three kids and went through this finally gave up moved out of state and said screw it. But has not been able to get a drivers license in 20 years because of it. He can't get a job either or they'll steal his wages so he farms chickens eggs and vegetables to get by. His kids from that marriage are grown now but the court still says he owes like 80 thousand in arrears.

The stinking lawyers use the "dead beat dads" BS to act like they're doing a service to society when they are nothing but lying scum who get a cut off of every case and every child they can separate from one of or both parents. That's what happens when the state is made a 3rd party to the marriage contract. I tell anyone who is getting married not to get a state license it is none of the states business and it gives them jurisdiction over the family and you agree to it by APPLYING for thier permission.

Originally posted by hawkiye
The whole child support system is a racket the courts make money off of. They have no desire to do the right thing the more they can charge they better and they get a percentage of it all. My brother married the bitch from hell and had three kids and went through this finally gave up moved out of state and said screw it. But has not been able to get a drivers license in 20 years because of it. He can't get a job either or they'll steal his wages so he farms chickens eggs and vegetables to get by. His kids from that marriage are grown now but the court still says he owes like 80 thousand in arrears.

The stinking lawyers use the "dead beat dads" BS to act like there doing a service to society when they are nothing but lying scum who get a cut off of every case and every child they can separate from one of or both parents. That's what happens when the state is made a 3rd party to the marriage contract. I tell anyone who is getting married not to get a state license it is none of the states business and it gives them jurisdiction over the family and you agree to it by APPLYING for thier permission.

edit on 13-8-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

Well said.

Welcome to America.
Wanna hear a real sad story? This guyy set himself on fire because of his ex and the court system.

reply to post by IPILYA


Sorry to hear about your friend. Child support laws do need to be changed, but the courts and lawyers are making money on every case they handle. I don't think it's right to force someone to pay support for children that are not theirs. It's a sad thing that some women do have children just to get money, but not all are that way.