It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Not sure what it really means though? Does this mean that the entire bill is scrapped, or just the Medicare part of the bill? Won't they just redraft it to make it constitutional?
What's next the bill goes back to Congress to be redrafted or something? If it gets ruled unconstitutional by the US Supreme court next term?
Yes it was braking news from Washington, the 11th circuit court is the highest under the supreme court this means that now is going directly to the supreme court for debate.
It is unconstitutional, everybody remember when Hilary wanted to push the health care reform back during Clinton years, well the then Republican congress along with many democrats stop her in her tracks because the constitutionality could be challenged in the supreme court.
Senator Clinton blames special interests, especially the insurance companies, for defeating the health care reform package she developed for her husband’s administration in 1993-94. There’s some merit to the claim. Tens of millions of dollars went to lobbying, advertising and organizing against the proposal. But while that level of spending would have made passage more difficult, if the plan had been well conceived and well promoted it would not have been enough. With Democrats in the White House and controlling Congress, the right plan, developed and sold in the right way should have been successful. And that was the problem. Under now-Senator Clinton’s leadership, the plan was developed in secrecy and presented to the public and decision makers with unforgivable ineptitude.
Senator Clinton talks a lot about reaching out to all points of view to fashion consensus policies and programs. Now. Then, however, it was her way or the highway. In late-1992 she began assembling a large group of very smart people to develop her health care reform package. They sequestered themselves in Washington and talked among themselves. Occasionally they’d seek input from outsiders. But like Ken Kesey’s Merry Pranksters, you were either on the bus or off the bus. And if you were off the bus, your opinions didn’t matter.
This created two problems. First, developing policy in an echo chamber rarely works. The results may look good when considered in a vacumn, but when exposed to the real world, one flaw cascades through the interwoven assumptions, reducing the whole to dust. The Clinton health care plan of 1993 and 1994 was beautiful to behold, an exquisite example of theoretical policy. It was also fragile. Because the Clinton administration was unwilling to accept advice or input or, heaven forbid, changes, from the outside, it lacked a foundation to withstand deep scrutiny. Much to the surprise of the Clinton health care working group, their plan was flawed. And those flaws led to the unravelling of the whole. Second, excluding members of Congress from the process was just stupid. By ignoring even Democrats in Congress, there was no one at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue who had any stake in the outcome. In fact, it merely engendered hostility. I participated in three Congressional hearings, representing the National Association of Health Underwriters (NAHU is an association for health insurance agents and other professionals). None of the questioning dived deeply into the Clinton health care plan. There was plenty of questions concerning other reform proposals, but our criticism of the Administration’s plan was pretty well accepted by the Congressional panels.
The lesson is clear: developing health care reform requires an open, inclusive process. Every opinion and perspective needs to be represented.
Then with Obama was resurrected again and thanks to the Whores in congress selling themselves to private insurance interest they allowed the corrupted insurance to write the mandate.
From what I understand...the part of this (health-law) that says people either have to have insurance through their employer or buy it personally...(meaning everyone) this part of the law will not pass ...but the rest of the law will....
(supposedly)... anyway..now it goes to the (supreme court) and they will decide the final outcome.
Not patient enough to read through to see if someone else posted it.
Obamacare is now before the US Supreme court. Month ago maybe. You might hear a ruling before the end of the year.
Here's the link.
Without the individual mandate Obamacare has no reason for existing. It should just be repealed since it's another useless piece of progressive legislation wasting taxpayer money.
Ha. I'm glad they ruled it unconstitutional because it stunk and didn't achieve what is needed.
I think in order to push a universal health care system (which this wasn't) it will end up being a constitutional amendment voted on by the people. I think a well thought plan would pass in a landslide. I also don't think a very high % of people who are already covered by such a system would be willing to give it up, thus precedent makes it a no brainer.
Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!! remember that Obama wanted an universal health care (health care for all) without intervention from health care mafia, but that was scraped because the private interest lobbying body in the US rules the laws written in congress as their lawyers write the laws so they were able to convince the pay off whores that cater to them into forcing the mandate, so what happen if the insurance mafia doesn't get their mandate? well the health care reform will reverse back to the original bill, health care for all, while eliminating medicare and medicaid.
See the whole purpose of the health care reform is to give carte Blanche to the insurance to gouge consumers by mandate, that is why Massachusetts is in trouble, because the insurance were never regulated and they are gouging the consumer with out of pocket expenses and deductibles and because is mandate by the state people are slaves to the insurance companies mafia.
So, it goes on to "Obama's" Supreme Court? What are the chances this pathetic legislation will finally end?
I don't agree with Obama in many things, but people think "thanks to the insurance sponsored tea parties" that Obama is the one that introduced the mandate people needs to understand that Obama bill was Universal health care modeled from UK and Canada, tea parties call it socialism and people bought into it, the mandate was written and pushed by Lobbyist from the health care mafia industry.
If the mandate becomes unconstitutional is not going to be a health care reform then the universal health care can be put in the table again.
I am in favor of universal healt h care, as I am universal education. The only problem I had in entirety was the mandate portion. I have little argument against the gvt making a service available to me, but govt forcing me t purchase the insurance was where I draw the line.
I and many members in the ATS followed the health care reform from the beginning to the end, we saw the way that it metamorphosed into a bastard insurance pushed bill and how the right paid propaganda made the Universal version obscene.
we warned many but the Tea parties made a good job at confusing the people
some people still think that the healthcare is going to provide with checks in the mail for those that can not afford the mandate, I got a word for them, medicaid that is where those that can not be mandate will fall into.
The health care reform that we have to be made into law if the supreme court doesn't do anything about it, is the version written and redacted by the Insurance companies themself.
Obamacare was never really about health care. It was about GOVERNMENT CONTROL.
The US already has programs in place to address the issue of individuals not covered under company healthcare plans or those who "fall through the cracks" of the healthcare system. That was what Medicare and Medicaid were instituted for. If the government will CLEAN THEM UP (i.e., get rid of all the corruption in both programs) and exercise appropriate oversight when administering them...they wouldn't NEED a 2,000 page bill that pretty much covers EVERYTHING a government is NOT entitlted to do under the constitution and burdens generations to come with a crippling debt.
This is what KILLS me about the "Nanny State" government. Things aren't working quite right? Oh...well, we'll just create a NEW program and pour billions (we don't have) into THAT. Don't address the problems we already have that need fixing, just add more to the bureaucratic mess.
Why is it you lot focus so much on the constitution, it was written a long time ago. Would you look at a 60 year old book of how to drive a car... of course you wouldn't because times and practices change. It is time to ditch the constitution and replace it with something that benefits America more.
The first proposal by Obama was indeed universal health care, the birth of the Tea parties were the result of the propaganda been paid by special interest to make people think that Obama wanted socialism, then congress been bought and sold to private interest will not have it
that is why in the beginning Insurance companies were up in arms about the health care reform original bill. Because they were going to lose big time with government intervention.
Been US a corrupt country when it comes to special interest and the whores we call politicians, millions were funneled by lobbyist to repeal the original bill and have insurance companies along with drug companies into the meetings while the bill was redacted.
In the beginning it was more than one bill and as usual the original was scraped(becaise the socialized health caremongering by the tea parties) and the Republican version that allowed insurance to dictate the outcome of the bill was passed
That is what is killing the Massachusetts residents right now, the state never really regulated how insurance companies were to charge for out of pocket expenses and deductible, so many people are mandate by force to get insurance but can not afford to use them because the outrageous fees and deductible, the insurance companies are making a killing with the mandate insurance steady income.
The mandate was not in the original bill it was added to the final bill when the insurance companies won.
Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Flatfish
that would be assuming of course,
that enough tax money is collected.
especially from unemployed workers !!!!
where's the $$$ gonna come from ?
perhaps from a "progressive" tax rate
all the big corps are doing is moving work off shore to dodge what's thrown at them.
I would say the big companies and banks are the ones with "checkmate" on their minds.
maybe the libs can sell all there assets to help ?
Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Flatfish
I believe that Obama is waiting for that also, like I said I don't like much of what Obama has done after been elected or "lack off" but I was 100% percent for the "original idea"l of the health care reform that he had in mind, that idea was struck down by the public and the Republican congress with the scaremongering of "socialized health care", still people doesn't get it, that is what medicare and medicaid are.
Something that was played good by insurance companies and the Tea parties.
I believe that Obama knows the whole "mandated" part of the bill will be ruled out by the Supreme court.
I also believe that when it comes to forced commerce into the voters and tax payer is up to the individual states to do that by votes, no the federal government.
edit on 13-8-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)